FS: Octane Compression Option (Cosmo2): 1100 UKP + shipping

Have some gear for sale? Post it here!
Forum rules
Any posts concerning pirated software or offering to buy/sell/trade commercial software are subject to removal.
User avatar
mapesdhs
Posts: 2516
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2003 4:17 pm
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Contact:

FS: Octane Compression Option (Cosmo2): 1100 UKP + shipping

Unread postby mapesdhs » Fri Apr 07, 2006 1:53 am

(selling on behalf of Khalid Schofield)

FOR SALE:

Octane Compresion Option (Cosmo2): 1100 UKP + shipping

Driver CD included (ie. my SGI Gifts CD)

The shipping cost to a UK destination would be 8 UKP for Special
Delivery with full appropriate insurance (consequential loss
available for extra). For destinations outside the UK, shipping
would be by courier with full insurance as follows:

Channel Islands: 23 UKP
Republic of Ireland: 26 UKP
Belgium, Holland, Luxembourg: 25 UKP
France, Germany, Denmark: 28 UKP
Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece: 39 UKP
The rest of Europe: 48 UKP
USA/Canada: 43 UKP

Or alternatively I can use a buyer's own courier account if preferred,
eg. Fedex.

I have fully tested this board in a dual-R10K/250 Octane MXI. It
works great! All functions A-ok. Here is a picture showing the
board as it was mounted on the MXI assembly:

http://www.futuretech.blinkenlights.nl/ ... ession.jpg

Note that I have a proper XIO connector cover (visible in the
picture) for use when shipping the board.

Octane Compression is ideal for use in conjunction with Octane
Digital Video or Octane Personal Video, or it can be used standalone.
Since it can be used in isolation, there's a good chance this board
will also work in a system with VPro graphics - will test this over
the weekend. I don't mean it can be linked to a VPro board (not
possible) but it should work ok on its own in such a system.


Quite frankly, this board is awesome. 8-) I tested it overnight on
4th April, capturing FOUR HOURS from CNN (cable TV setup), full-size
full-rate PAL, not a single dropped frame! The capture created a 43GB
file. :D

Quite incredible technology - one can have a live videoin window
running at the same time as the capture is going on, with neither
task affecting the other. And the same goes for playback too, ie.
videoin continues to be onscreen while one can play a previously
captured file to video out, both at full rate. Rather amusingly, the
system blends the two audio streams to audio-out perfectly when doing
this.

For full technical details of Octane Compression, please see my page:

http://www.futuretech.blinkenlights.nl/ ... press.html

ie. Octane Compression is Cosmo2, the same technology as the IMPACT
Compression board used in Indigo2, so all the same features apply,
except of course it runs much better in Octane with the faster SCSI,
better I/O, etc.


Please email or call if you're interested (landline is best; see sig).
If you live close enough, I'm happy to demonstrate the board in action
prior to sale.

For reference, the capture command was:

dmrecord -p video,device=impact,engine=impact,brate=25000000 -p audio cnn.mv

while the playback command to screen was:

dmplay -p graphics,engine=impact -p audio cnn.mv

and the command to play to video out was just:

dmplay cnn.mv

If you have any questions, feel free to ask!

Cheers! :)

Ian.

SGI Depot: http://www.futuretech.blinkenlights.nl/sgidepot/
Email: mailto:mapesdhs@yahoo.com (eBay ID: mapesdhs)
Backup email (send copy to this too): mailto:sgidepot@blueyonder.co.uk
Home: +44 (0)131 476 0796 (best to call this number first)
Mobile: 07743 495403 (usually off; leave a message and I'll call back)

GIJoe
Posts: 898
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2003 11:44 am
Location: Germany

Unread postby GIJoe » Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:23 pm

drop-frames seem to be a problem with analog video recording equipment, not with TV (as long as you don't switch the program). never had any drop frames personally from recording cable TV programmes (on an o2).
would be interesting to see how much better (or not) this board handles recording from a device that does not cooperate well with o2 or other solutions, like a cheap video recorder or camcorder that delivers unstable signals.

anyway i think your price is seriously through the roof even for UK standards. people who want to do hobby stuff, and accept the restriction to compressed analog video won't pay that kinda money. they probably payed only a fraction of this for their octane's anyway. ;)
a more ambitious user can buy a new (as in unused - with full warranty) pro-level 12bit 4:4:4 HD/SD video board for pc/mac for that kind of money which does not rely on that kinda oldfashioned MJPEG compression that is incompatible with almost every video app out there.

but if you can really sell it at that kind of money, more power to you!

User avatar
mapesdhs
Posts: 2516
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2003 4:17 pm
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Contact:

Unread postby mapesdhs » Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:07 pm

GIJoe wrote:
> would be interesting to see how much better (or not) this board handles recording from a
> device that does not cooperate well with o2 or other solutions, like a cheap video recorder or
> camcorder that delivers unstable signals.

When using IMPACT Compression on such a source, it definitely behaves better than
O2. I grabbed three 15 minute sequences from boring VHS; dropped 1 frame in
the first 15 minute chunk, no frames from the other two pieces.


> anyway i think your price is seriously through the roof even for UK standards. people who

No it's not. This is a rare and very valuable board.


> want to do hobby stuff, and accept the restriction to compressed analog video won't pay

ROFL! My advert was not aimed at hobbyists. Home users are not the only ones who
read adverts you know.


> HD/SD video board for pc/mac for that kind of money which does not rely on that kinda

Completely irrelevant. This is aimed at companies with existing installations, maintaining
setups, repairing setups, duplicate sstems, etc.


> but if you can really sell it at that kind of money, more power to you!

Like I say, it's not aimed at hobbyists. My descriptive prose was jsut because
I was impressed by what it can do and because I know some people find it
interesting.

And btw, some hobbyists *do* have plenty of money for such things. I know one
guy who saved up for 4 years and then in 1998 bought his own Onyx2 IR for $76000.

Ian.

User avatar
hamei
Posts: 10435
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 4:10 pm
Location: over the rainbow

Unread postby hamei » Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:37 pm

mapesdhs wrote: No it's not. This is a rare and very valuable board.

Maybe but the last one I almost bought (then the Assistant and I got into a week-long squabble which consumed all available energy) went for $300. A year ago I paid way too much money for a fuel for professional use - which is now moribund because the professional organization supplying professional software no longer sells Irix versions of their product and I figure that's partly because of pressure from SGI itself. Good luck on the sale but I wouldn't hold my breath. Irix has no future for "professionals."

Sorry, but we may as well face the truth :-(

User avatar
mapesdhs
Posts: 2516
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2003 4:17 pm
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Contact:

Unread postby mapesdhs » Sat Apr 08, 2006 2:32 am

hamei wrote:
> Maybe but the last one I almost bought (then the Assistant and I got into a week-long
> squabble which consumed all available energy) went for $300. ...

So what? I'm not going to price something low just because hobbyists want it to be low. :D
That's just stupid, and very PC-type thinking. If something is valuable, then it's valuable.
In the 2nd hand market, an item is only ever worth what someone is willing to pay. It
would be crazy for anyone selling something in a normal manner to underprice something
just to please a narrow market of buyers. Would you make the same argument about
Octane Digital Video? I think not. Companies which use these boards are far more
likely to be using them with custom apps, not dmrecord, eg. video applications for
undersea ocean systems, image analysis, security tasks, etc. Remember that these boards
had dev APIs for them; they were used for a wide variety of things.


> on the sale but I wouldn't hold my breath. Irix has no future for "professionals."

Sorry, but that's just nonsense. I deal with *a lot* of companies. IRIX is alive and well.
Nekochan may have a plethora of people claiming it's dying, but in the real world it is
still very widely used, will continue to be used for many years, and in some areas its
use is actually growing because of access to 2nd-hand systems, eg. eastern Europe,
Asia, Africa, etc. I get many enquiries from eastern Europe and Asia these days.

Yesterday I spoke with someone who's been using Alias for years. He upgraded
to a 600/V12 Octane2 4 years ago, has G5 Macs, two R10K/250 Octane render
units. He does a lot of PR work for Apple (eg. G5 launch material) and other big
names. He's very happy with his setup and knows that, most likely this year, when
the time comes he has a wide range of upgrade options, probably moving to dual-
600 Octane2s all-round and perhaps getting an Origin as a render farm. There are
numerous possibilities.

I deal a lot with industrial companies using old Indigos and Indigo2s for a variety
of tasks, from film processing to dealing with data sets for industrial design.
Originally done with Indys, Indigo2s and early O2s, they're now able to move to
high-spec Octane2s, top-spec O2s and Fuels, giving enormous speed increases,
while maintaining reliability, stability, ease of use, etc.

I could list dozens more examples.

Just because hobbyists can't run their favourite app on IRIX or are bored with the
GUI doesn't mean IRIX is dying. If IRIX lacks something, then the dev stuff is
there, so write the code required. Nekochan sw and the freeware are awesome
resources, but they're not the core deciding factor for companies dealing with
upgrade issues, though some do benefit from the free sw.

Ian.

unixmuseum
Posts: 2783
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2004 4:25 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Unread postby unixmuseum » Sat Apr 08, 2006 2:47 am

Ian,
I understand what you're saying and mostly agree with it... However, your post says "Selling on behalf on Kalhid Shofield", which makes it sounds exactly like a hobbyist thing, doesn't it? How come Kalhid isn't selling it himself BTW? He's been trying to sell it on newsgroup to apparently no avail...

User avatar
mapesdhs
Posts: 2516
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2003 4:17 pm
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Contact:

Unread postby mapesdhs » Sat Apr 08, 2006 3:04 am

unixmuseum wrote:
> I understand what you're saying and mostly agree with it... However, your post says "Selling
> on behalf on Kalhid Shofield", which makes it sounds exactly like a hobbyist thing, doesn't it?

No. I don't see the connection. Just because I don't own it and am selling it on behalf
of someone else doesn't mean it should thus by definition be sold off for pennies. I'm not
going to tell Khalid to only ask 500 for it when I know it's worth a lot more than that.
You're all arguing this from a hobbyist buyer's point of view, but the *main* market for
items like this is not hobbyists. Sheesh, if I managed to get hold of a DM2 or DM5, are
you saying I should sell that el cheap too? Obviously not.


> ... How come Kalhid isn't selling it himself BTW? He's been trying to sell it on newsgroup
> to apparently no avail...

He sent it to me for testing since he wasn't able to test it himself (some problem with
the old Octane he was using). Plus, my saying it definitely works can help since many
dealers/companies know me. I'm just helping him get some wider publicity. And his
advert didn't really have many details anyway. :)

You guys are obsessed with hobbyistdom. :D Look, it's simple, if you think it's too
expensive, then don't buy it, but don't claim that it's somehow objectively too costly
because that's just not logical. Nothing is cheap just because someone wants it to be
cheap. Would you go into a car show room and demand their Jags cost 90% less?
Or go into a supermarket and insist the milk be only 10c?

Ian.

unixmuseum
Posts: 2783
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2004 4:25 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Unread postby unixmuseum » Sat Apr 08, 2006 4:45 am

Ian, I'm not arguing, once again I understand what you're saying... And I also understand you need to have a profit margin on things you sell, otherwise there wouldn't be a point...

You think it's worth $1,000; which it probably does... Assuming it does, then it's all good, you'll find a customer in no time... Now, if nobody wants it, maybe the market value isn't what you think it is...

BTW, DM5 is sold directly by sgi for $2,995 and DM2+VBOB for $6,995.

But your view on the market seems a little wrong: if the market tells you what they're ready to pay for, then you can be kicking and screaming as much as you want that it's worth more, you'll still have it on your hand ;-) And telling them that they're just hobbyist losers who can't afford your tuff isn't really going to persuade them, now is it? :-)

We're not talking about brand new Jags there, we're talking about (at least) second-hand hardware for an obsolete platform. I'm not saying it's not useful or fully functionnal, it's just the reality of things.

I am not a hobbyist as all my sgi hardware is in use in production, making money everyday, but you'll find mostly hobbyst on nekochan who paid $50 for an Octane, so that probably won't be your type of customers...

User avatar
mapesdhs
Posts: 2516
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2003 4:17 pm
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Contact:

Unread postby mapesdhs » Sat Apr 08, 2006 5:19 am

unixmuseum wrote:
> But your view on the market seems a little wrong: if the market tells you what they're ready to
> pay for, then you can be kicking and screaming as much as you want that it's worth more,

The *point* is that hobbyists are NOT the market for this type of item, period. Therefore,
hobbyists moaning about the price just isn't relevant.

> you'll still have it on your hand ;-) And telling them that they're just hobbyist losers who > can't afford your tuff isn't really going to persuade them, now is it? :-)

I didn't say they're losers. Just not who the advert was aimed at.


> hardware for an obsolete platform. I'm not saying it's not useful or fully functionnal, it's
> just the reality of things.

Again, not obsolete. I deal with too many companies still using these things for that
to be remotely true.


> you'll find mostly hobbyst on nekochan who paid $50 for an Octane, so that probably
> won't be your type of customers...[/quote]

*exactly*. People who buy eBay Octanes for $50 just are not remotely relevant here.

Ian.

unixmuseum
Posts: 2783
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2004 4:25 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Unread postby unixmuseum » Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:14 am

mapesdhs wrote:*exactly*. People who buy eBay Octanes for $50 just are not remotely relevant here.
Ian.
We are in complete agreement, Ian... BUT, posting on a hobbyist site expecting to reach corporate customers is kind of silly, wouldn't you agree? :-)

GIJoe
Posts: 898
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2003 11:44 am
Location: Germany

Unread postby GIJoe » Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:53 am

somewhat i'm still wondering which kind of pro video users would want a board that is apparently limited to SD resolutions and compresses everything into MJPEG video streams, effectively degrading the image. MJPEG support isn't really great on the SGI platform and SGI's flavour is a bitch to work with on anything else.

and i think it's very relevant, what the stuff on other platforms is priced at. if the difference becomes too great, it simply becomes an option to get another machine for a specialized task ;)

can't agree more with unixmuseum. if you believe, this board is a professional item in todays context (i see it more as a glorified o2 video module with less software support, but that's just me), you should try to market it at places, where those professionals are listening.
i could certainly see that those who have developed their own software to make use of it, would be willing to pay for a replacement unit. just not around here :D

User avatar
mapesdhs
Posts: 2516
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2003 4:17 pm
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Contact:

Unread postby mapesdhs » Sat Apr 08, 2006 10:23 am

unixmuseum wrote:
> BUT, posting on a hobbyist site expecting to reach corporate customers is kind of silly,
> wouldn't you agree? :-)

Heh, no, because plenty of company/professional people do read these forums even if they
don't post. I know, I've talked to a fair few of them. Bit like the SGI newsgroups, many
SGI staff and lots of non-hobbyist users used to read even if they didn't post. And btw,
every time I talk to a company with stuff to sell, and it's not something I want or can
afford, I tell them to advertise here.

Btw, if you or GIJoe ever have something you'd like to get a higher price for, feel
free to let me know, I can help, for a modest fee. ;)

Ian.

User avatar
mapesdhs
Posts: 2516
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2003 4:17 pm
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Contact:

Unread postby mapesdhs » Sat Apr 08, 2006 10:50 am

GIJoe wrote:
> somewhat i'm still wondering which kind of pro video users would want a board that is
> apparently limited to SD resolutions and compresses everything into MJPEG video streams,

If one is using an application that operates this way, and one doesn't need HD, then
there's no issue. There were some professional apps which used Cosmo[2]. And as I
say, plenty of custom things written out there. I once wrote an app to overlay a wireframe
outline of an undersea environment onto a live video footage; all I had to use was
IndyVideo - it would have been a heck of a lot easier if I'd had Cosmo to use aswell (with
only uncompressed data available, frame update rate was limited)/

I'm sure there were many other places around who did have the board and did make
use of it. The possibilities are endless.


> effectively degrading the image. ...

Uh huh, have you ever used MJPEG at better than 4:1? I defy you to tell the difference.
Cosmo2 can do as good as 2:1.

The 4 hour sequence I recorded the other night was 7:1 and playing it back,
comparing to the continuing live broadcast, I couldn't tell the difference.


> MJPEG support isn't really great on the SGI platform and SGI's flavour is a bitch to
> work with on anything else.

A standalone app doing whatever it's doing doesn't need to be compatible with
other things. Not everyone needs data to be portable to some modern PC sw junk.


> and i think it's very relevant, what the stuff on other platforms is priced at. ...

I don't. If a company wants to replace/repair an existing system which is known to
be reliable and well-understood, what modern technology may offer so often just
isn't a factor. Jeez, I recently sold three IRIS Indigos for mad prices each,
but that's what the company wanted. Don't forget, the amount of processing for
video never gets any more complicated.

And btw, in many industrial/commercial situations, the existing platform *cannot* be
changed because of all sorts of legal certification and compatibility issues. This is
especially true in medical and safety-critical applications, such as scanner control
systems, etc.


> if the difference becomes too great, it simply becomes an option to get another
> machine for a specialized task ;)

In reality, no. Other factors usually come into play. I tried to explain to one company
that something running on old hw with 5.3 ought to run just fine on something later
running 5.3 or 6.2/5, but it wasn't possible for them to do for legal reasons (medical
scanner control system).

This issue is just *so* much more complicated than you're making it out to be. It simply
isn't only a factor of what the card can or cannot do, compared to modern PC tech,
and it certainly isn't remotely related to what Mr. Average Hobbyist would love the
card to cost just so s/he can watch telly on their monitor. By definition, for most of
the relevant users of such things, if they could do or wanted to, they'd already be
using PCs anyway, but in many situations realiability is too critical.


> can't agree more with unixmuseum. if you believe, this board is a professional item in
> todays context (i see it more as a glorified o2 video module with less software support,

Cosmo2 is far beyond ProVideo in terms of quality.


> but that's just me), you should try to market it at places, where those professionals
> are listening.

Heh, and you know professionals don't read these forums because?...


> ... i could certainly see that those who have developed their own software to make use
> of it, would be willing to pay for a replacement unit. just not around here :D

There's no possible way you could know that, and I'm not going to not post here just
because I can't be sure of that one way or the other either, but I've spoken to enough
relevant people who do read here to know it *is* worthwhile. Loads of SGI dealers
read this forum btw.

Like I said above though, if you have anything you want to get a better price for,
feel free to let me know, I can help, for a modest fee. ;)

Cheers! :)

Ian.
I'm working on a charitable PC build for the Learn Engineering YouTube channel. Please PM/email/call if you'd like to contribute!
Donations of any kind of item I can sell to provide funds are also most welcome.
mapesdhs@yahoo.com
+44 (0)7434 635 121

niker
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:16 am
Location: Europe

Unread postby niker » Sun Apr 09, 2006 2:04 pm

mapesdhs: i saw u bought lot of great sgi pieces for really good prices last months on german ebay...

User avatar
mapesdhs
Posts: 2516
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2003 4:17 pm
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Contact:

Unread postby mapesdhs » Sun Apr 09, 2006 2:15 pm

niker wrote:mapesdhs: i saw u bought lot of great sgi pieces for really good prices last months on german ebay...


Yup, big thing I'm working on, and the seller I've dealt with off of eBay for a long time,
know them well.

Ian.
I'm working on a charitable PC build for the Learn Engineering YouTube channel. Please PM/email/call if you'd like to contribute!
Donations of any kind of item I can sell to provide funds are also most welcome.
mapesdhs@yahoo.com
+44 (0)7434 635 121


Return to “Hardware For Sale/Trade”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest