Best workstation to start with?

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Irinikus
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Re: Best workstation to start with?

Unread postby Irinikus » Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:47 am

Agreed!
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Re: Best workstation to start with?

Unread postby Trippynet » Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:00 am

hamei wrote:No. O2's are shit. They are the most unreliable piece of crap on the planet. My Westinghouse was more trustworthy and it was bit-sliced, with core. Here we have a case of people who have never owned or run any of this stuff giving advice. Great.

O2's are good for looking at but don't touch the thing or it will fall apart. Ask Jim Clark how dependable they are, when he was stranded 2,000 miles out in the ocean anad had to call the Coast Guard.

The nice thing about nekochan was that the people there used to know what they were talking about. Note the verb tense.


Everyone's experience will differ. My own O2 has always worked fine and has never had an issue. Even the original CD drive still works (which I admit is a rarity). In contrast, my Fuel has been far more finicky, and I've had PSU issues with my Indigo2 (random shutting down and failing to POST). My O2 however I've owned for about 14 years and is still going strong. It's been through three house moves and every single bit of plastic is intact still.

You also have to accept that O2s are some of the more accessible systems for starters. Built in CD drive and compatible with VGA monitors without needing a 13W3 adapter are useful when you're new to these things.

Are they a perfect system, of course not. However, I would put other SGIs ahead of O2s in the "unreliability scale" personally.
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Re: Best workstation to start with?

Unread postby guardian452 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:22 am

hamei wrote:
Irinikus wrote:These are not all of the possible comparisons, but they do show the R12K 400MHz O2 to perform relatively well.

No. O2's are shit. They are the most unreliable piece of crap on the planet. My Westinghouse was more trustworthy and it was bit-sliced, with core. Here we have a case of people who have never owned or run any of this stuff giving advice. Great.

O2's are good for looking at but don't touch the thing or it will fall apart. Ask Jim Clark how dependable they are, when he was stranded 2,000 miles out in the ocean anad had to call the Coast Guard.

The nice thing about nekochan was that the people there used to know what they were talking about. Note the verb tense.



Once I got mine working, it never stopped. I knew damn well enough to not move it, let alone put it on a boat.

Come to think of it, the weekly ritual of unplugging everything and re-slotting the mainboard carrier *did* get old after a while, and having to give the extra shove to actually get it in the slot.

And that was when they were 5-10 years old. Not 20. I also didn't expect a cheap 8 year old plastic computer I got for freebies to be super-reliable or to do any real work with it like my octane.

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Re: Best workstation to start with?

Unread postby hamei » Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:07 am

Irinikus wrote:All of these machines are pretty useless by todays standards, but that's not the point is it!

That's exactly what I mean. If you don't know what you are talking about, you shouldn't be giving advice. Some of us actually use these computers and have real-world experience with them.

The O2 is crap. When they run they are okay but every time you turn it on, your sphincter puckers up. Will it turn on or will it redlight ? Oh, orange light this time ! Let me try to remember what that one means. Do I switch the memory sticks around again or is it the mainboard this time ? Oh wait ! It turned green but there's still no display ! Let me try to remember, what causes that one ? Everyone who has actually used Irix despises the O2.

Telling people to get one of these as a first SGI means you don't know your bulbous dorsal appendage from a depression in the planet.

R5k-180 Indy would be okay, Indigo would be good, Indigo2's are decent, and the Octane. If a person is too stupid to find a 13w3 to vga adapter, then SGI is not the brand for them to play with.
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Re: Best workstation to start with?

Unread postby Irinikus » Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:40 am

hamei wrote:
Irinikus wrote:All of these machines are pretty useless by todays standards, but that's not the point is it!

That's exactly what I mean. If you don't know what you are talking about, you shouldn't be giving advice. Some of us actually use these computers and have real-world experience with them.

The O2 is crap. When they run they are okay but every time you turn it on, your sphincter puckers up. Will it turn on or will it redlight ? Oh, orange light this time ! Let me try to remember what that one means. Do I switch the memory sticks around again or is it the mainboard this time ? Oh wait ! It turned green but there's still no display ! Let me try to remember, what causes that one ? Everyone who has actually used Irix despises the O2.

Telling people to get one of these as a first SGI means you don't know your bulbous dorsal appendage from a depression in the planet.

R5k-180 Indy would be okay, Indigo would be good, Indigo2's are decent, and the Octane. If a person is too stupid to find a 13w3 to vga adapter, then SGI is not the brand for them to play with.


Well, that's your opinion!

It seems that there are quite a few other people around here who share my opinion regarding the O2, are you going to say to them too, that they don't know what they're talking about!

I'm not going to entertain this argument any further, as it's becoming boring and I have better things to do than to argue with you!(that even rhymes!)
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Re: Best workstation to start with?

Unread postby hamei » Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:03 am

Irinikus wrote:Well, that's your opinion!

Yes. An opinion formed by owning and using every one of these machines on a daily basis since some time around 1995, rather than something I pulled out of my ass. Exactly.
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Re: Best workstation to start with?

Unread postby Irinikus » Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:06 am

hamei wrote:
Irinikus wrote:Well, that's your opinion!

Yes. An opinion formed by owning and using every one of these machines on a daily basis since some time around 1995, rather than something I pulled out of my ass. Exactly.


You pull things out of your ass?
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Re: Best workstation to start with?

Unread postby guardian452 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:50 am

Irinikus, keep in mind that hamei actually used the damn thing for his business, the same way you use an airplane or I use my mill. The standard of uptime with the O2 are nowhere near that of say thinkpad or fluke multimeter. Or even a Nintendo.

His expectations are different than some fanboi who just wants to circle jerk and use their computer to watch hentai anime on the weekends.

The O2 is a fine toy but if you had actually spent five-figures plus back in the day and relied on one for your livelihood... you would be pretty upset the first time you had to reseat everything and cross your fingers. Or had to turn the machine on it's head to get the CD tray to close all the way.

Octane and Indigo2 etc, sure you may find issues now that they are ancient. The O2 was having these problems back when it was still being sold.

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Re: Best workstation to start with?

Unread postby Irinikus » Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:53 am

I agree with you completely, but he must accept the fact that we all have SGI machines for different reasons and that all of our opinions are valid as a result.

It's not nice to simply attack someone you don't know, simply because their opinion is different to yours!

I will openly admit that hardware interests me more than software does.

From a hardware point of view, the O2 is a very interesting, quirky little machine.

That's where my opinion comes from.

Just remember that a thread like this is here, so that we can all express our own opinions, and thereby help someone else to make a decision based upon all of our opinions.

Maybe we should ask, Str1kernaut why he wants an SGI machine, and what he wants to use it for?
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Re: Best workstation to start with?

Unread postby uunix » Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:18 am

Hamie old chap I expected nothing less, BUT!!
I agree with Classic on this regarding the o2, because the o2 is positioned as an easy starter. Yes they are brittle, yes they don't start up sometimes (see my previous rants), but nor doe does the Octane which also act like a wife who you've upset for reasons you cannot fathom.
The INDY is great, but restricted to 6.22, anyone starting wants the latest and greatest, you can't run rdesktop from an INDY can you? Last time I tried, platform not compatible. The FUEL is great, only if you get a good one.

You've turned this into a rant for the reasons you are the only one using it daily, well I use discreet on Octane daily, BUT, I also have an o2 running effects at works that has been up weeks and starts fine each time.. on the other hand I also have 7 others o2s that suck.. I also have an Indy running ftp snapshots 24/7 at work.. both work fine.

The point is, people CAN give advice on their experiences and it is as always up the final choice of the OP to collect what he/she thinks is best. There is no need to start insulting people, FFS, we might as well get fscking legacy back for that.

Why not give your experience and knowledge and be happy at that instead of insulting people and causing yet another fscking internal combustion explosion on this site....

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Re: Best workstation to start with?

Unread postby Krokodil » Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:56 am

guardian452 wrote: Or had to turn the machine on it's head to get the CD tray to close all the way.


I usually resort to pushing the tray all the way in with moderate force. That keeps it closed 95% of the time. :) Yes. I know it's not the best thing for the motor, but it was already kinda busted when I got it.
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Re: Best workstation to start with?

Unread postby SiliconClassics » Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:43 pm

hamei wrote:Telling people to get one of these as a first SGI means you don't know your bulbous dorsal appendage from a depression in the planet.


Hamei, you are one of the smartest guys on Nekochan and I respect not only your opinions but also the colorful ways in which you present them, but in this case I beg to differ. I've bought, collected, refurbished, and sold every desktop workstation SGI produced in the 90s, including almost two dozen O2 systems ranging from 180MHz base models to 400MHz O2+ systems with all the trimmings. On balance, the O2's annoyances are relatively minor. An occasional RAM/motherboard re-seat is not a big hassle and once the system is up & running it tends to stay that way unless jostled.

hamei wrote:R5k-180 Indy would be okay, Indigo would be good, Indigo2's are decent, and the Octane. If a person is too stupid to find a 13w3 to vga adapter, then SGI is not the brand for them to play with.


Bear in mind that hardware texture acceleration is not available on the Indy or Indigo, and on I2 / Octane you will be shelling out $300+ for Impact graphics with TRAM. If Str1kernaut wants to play Quake, tinker with the realtime 3D textured demos, or try modeling with texture mapping he will have to go outside his budget with any system other than an O2. Granted the O2 does not have blazing textured performance but it's a damn site better than the slideshow he'd get with anything else in his price range. Also bear in mind that the O2 offers the only affordable video capture solution among all the SGI workstations.

Sure, if Str1kernaut had a $500+ budget then he might be better served by a midrange Octane or decked-out Indigo2, but this is his first foray into IRIX workstations and he'd like to keep the cost to a minimum. I advised him accordingly.
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Re: Best workstation to start with?

Unread postby jan-jaap » Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:21 pm

uunix wrote:Hamie old chap I expected nothing less, BUT!!
I agree with Classic on this regarding the o2, because the o2 is positioned as an easy starter. Yes they are brittle, yes they don't start up sometimes (see my previous rants), but nor doe does the Octane which also act like a wife who you've upset for reasons you cannot fathom.
The INDY is great, but restricted to 6.22, anyone starting wants the latest and greatest

Two things:

* Ever browsed the IRIX 6.5.x release notes? The changes between 6.5.22 and 6.5.30, after removing the changes for big iron (XVM, XFS, CXFS, array services) are ... underwhelming.
* IRIX > 6.5.22 runs on the O2, but it's a known fact that it runs slower on the O2 than earlier releases and that video capture suffers from glitches with the last releases.

Also, everybody seems to have an opinion (and that's fine) here but nobody bothered to link Ian's accumulated work on this topic which is a shame. OP never told us what he expects from his first SGI. The O2's party piece is the way it handles relatively large textures, but that's really a niche application and it's usability as a general purpose system suffers because of it. If you look at 195MHz R10000 Performance Comparison Between O2, Indigo2, Octane, Origin200, Origin2000 and Power Challenge, you will see that the same CPU performs very different in various systems, and by far the worst in the O2.
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Re: Best workstation to start with?

Unread postby uunix » Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:51 pm

jan-jaap wrote:
uunix wrote:Hamie old chap I expected nothing less, BUT!!
I agree with Classic on this regarding the o2, because the o2 is positioned as an easy starter. Yes they are brittle, yes they don't start up sometimes (see my previous rants), but nor doe does the Octane which also act like a wife who you've upset for reasons you cannot fathom.
The INDY is great, but restricted to 6.22, anyone starting wants the latest and greatest

Two things:

* Ever browsed the IRIX 6.5.x release notes? The changes between 6.5.22 and 6.5.30, after removing the changes for big iron (XVM, XFS, CXFS, array services) are ... underwhelming.
* IRIX > 6.5.22 runs on the O2, but it's a known fact that it runs slower on the O2 than earlier releases and that video capture suffers from glitches with the last releases.

Also, everybody seems to have an opinion (and that's fine) here but nobody bothered to link Ian's accumulated work on this topic which is a shame. OP never told us what he expects from his first SGI. The O2's party piece is the way it handles relatively large textures, but that's really a niche application and it's usability as a general purpose system suffers because of it. If you look at 195MHz R10000 Performance Comparison Between O2, Indigo2, Octane, Origin200, Origin2000 and Power Challenge, you will see that the same CPU performs very different in various systems, and by far the worst in the O2.

This is a first machine, I really doubt anyone will notice any differences when coming into this arena. As for the differences with 6.22, Hamie spent ages getting a best release, which he narrowed down to a 6.21 with some extras.. It just doesn't matter really, the guy wants a cheap start up that he can plug into his keyboard and monitor and have it run some demos and do unix stuff.

I feel like we have been trolled, I really do.
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Re: Best workstation to start with?

Unread postby ClassicHasClass » Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:37 pm

I agree with Classic on this regarding the o2


I said no such thing :P I'm an Indy man.
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