Thoughts on the new macbook?

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josehill
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Re: Thoughts on the new macbook?

Unread postby josehill » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:14 pm

theinonen wrote:If I am not mistaken all the raster elements needs to be redone for the retina, or they will be scaled. So essentially if there are higher resolution graphics available for the application, then they can be rendered with higher detail.

If you look the lower picture from my earlier post, you can see that some icons are much sharper than others. That is because there are higher resolution icons provided for some applications and the blurry ones are just scaled to double size. I would assume Apple is doing something similar, but differently.

Yes, that is how it is handled.

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Re: Thoughts on the new macbook?

Unread postby fu » Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:18 pm

i missed the announcement too, looks like there's nothing exciting, retinas will be standard soon. all this consolidation in their laptop line makes the "pro" euphemism kind of ridiculous.

re. extra ports, i used to worry about it but with a dock like this it seems to me that the problem's solved (when @ home/office). there are times i wish i had a plain ethernet cable but truth is that most cafes/hotspots supply only wireless, "double-espresso & rj-45 thanks", "absolutely sir but we have to transfer you next to the router" (which usualy resides next to the kitchen).

i've found on-the-go nirvana w/ the 11' air, i beat the hell out of it and it'd only burp/page due to the 4gb ram limit when i have to do some heavy work on it. looks like the current ones w/ 8gb ram, a dock and a decent monitor may serve as notebook/docked desktop combo for me.

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Re: Thoughts on the new macbook?

Unread postby jan-jaap » Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:13 am

Was in the Apple store the other day and had a look at the Retina display. The first impression is 'unnatural': it is very sharp, yet at the same time you don't see pixels. It's like my brain is wired to 'adjust focus' to the individual pixels and with this display it can't. It is undeniably a work of art.

I have no plans to upgrade from my current MacBook Pro (which is only 1 year old), and I expect that in 1 or 2 years everything except budget laptops will have this type of screen. I suspect that by the time my brain has accepted the retina style displays I will look back at the current LCD screens and wonder how we ever liked that grainy oldskool stuff :lol:
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Re: Thoughts on the new macbook?

Unread postby WolvesOfTheNight » Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:54 am

My guess is it will take more like 3-5 years for these displays to become standard, but I don't know. Of course, for years I have been pessimistic on ever getting better displays. Xkcd sums up my opinion on this. For some strange reason almost nobody makes displays larger than 30in (no, if it is 1080p it does not count). And the few that do (like Eizo) have a price of "If you have to ask you can't afford it. In fact, we won't even discuss our high end displays with anyone that is not a hospital or air traffic controller" And we even had the average display (especially on laptops) backslide to so called high-def.

Anyway, I hope to see a mac laptop with a good display, built in ethernet, and user serviceability. Sadly, that may never happen. Leaving me back at the point of not buying a new laptop simply because I don't care enough about the new stuff.
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Re: Thoughts on the new macbook?

Unread postby josehill » Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:20 am

I just spent some time playing with the Retina MBP, and the thing that stood out the most for me wasn't the screen, but the machine's sleekness and light weight. At first glance, this machine seems more like a very fast 15" MacBook Air than an MBP. Indeed, the regular 15" MBPs nearby seemed fat by comparison.

The screen is lovely, but not lovely enough to make me hand over the cash to buy. I have a five year old MBP, and I have an iPhone 4S (w/Retina), and I often use them side-by-side. The iPhone display is obviously much crisper, but not so much so that I feel like I'm giving up anything important when I look at my MBP. Of course, I expect that I would feel differently if I spent my day working with very high resolution photos, etc.

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Re: Thoughts on the new macbook?

Unread postby WolvesOfTheNight » Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:43 am

Having an iphone 4 I figure the display will be simmilar and I mostly like it (but *please* make a not-glossy one). I would really enjoy using the better display but I don't actually need it. And once more software is updated for it I will be more interested. And, while I am dreaming, I want the entire concept of doing graphics in pixles done - it should all be done over in fractals!

As for seeming like an air: if they released this as an update to the top end macbook air then I would be pleased with it. Maybe a bit fat for an MBA - but well worth the extra size. And I would be happly waiting for them to release a pro version without the aformentioned issues. As is, I fear they are planing on making the entire pro line a slightly larger version of the air with better RAM / HD / processor / graphics specs. What they are missing is that I don't really care about the faster processor - after all, I am OK with my 1.5GHz powerbook G4. What I do care about is what the G4 has but their new machine is missing...
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Re: Thoughts on the new macbook?

Unread postby josehill » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:20 pm

WolvesOfTheNight wrote:What they are missing is that I don't really care about the faster processor - after all, I am OK with my 1.5GHz powerbook G4. What I do care about is what the G4 has but their new machine is missing...

Yeah, it sounds like a build-your-own Hackintosh would be a better fit for you. I am a bit dismayed by the disposable computing trend that Apple and others seem to be following.

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Re: Thoughts on the new macbook?

Unread postby hamei » Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:37 pm

josehill wrote: I am a bit dismayed by the disposable computing trend that Apple and others seem to be following.

They are moribund. Personal computers are now refrigerators, with the manufacturers raving over the ice dispensers in the door. When we had 486-66 DX computers with 4 megs of memory there was a long way to go to get to useful. We upgraded for a reason. But I've been saying this for a long time now - people don't need anywhere near the computing power we've had for ten years. A fuel is fine. A dual-core fuel would be perfect. The R18k would have been all the computer SGI needed if they had had a brain to market it. Sure, I'd like a little of this and a little of that but in fact, it does everything I need ... and despite what r-ten thinks, it does more than 90% of what everyone needs.*

The rest of this stuff is just blah-blah this and blah-blah that, because that's all there is to talk about. When they come out with the new Macbook in paisley, then you'll know they've hit the wall.

* It would be nice to have improved software. That means no fucking Java front ends to garbage programs written by pimple-faced teenagers living in Mom's basement. But hey, that'd cost money which we can't allow for business reasons so too bad on that :(

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Re: Thoughts on the new macbook?

Unread postby josehill » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:04 am

I take back some of what I said - it looks like the other MBPs are a bit better the Retina model regarding upgradeability and user customization: http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/06/li ... re-its-at/

hamei wrote:But I've been saying this for a long time now - people don't need anywhere near the computing power we've had for ten years. A fuel is fine. A dual-core fuel would be perfect. The R18k would have been all the computer SGI needed if they had had a brain to market it. Sure, I'd like a little of this and a little of that but in fact, it does everything I need

I think there is a lot of truth there. WolvesOfTheNight is still mostly happy with his 1.5 " G4 PB, and I still use one routinely for managing the website and email for a charity. I usually only notice that machine's age (7 years) on the rare occasions when I need to look at something using Flash. My daily driver is a five year old, 2.3 GHz MBP, and the only time I find myself wishing for more speed is when I try to edit HD video. Even then, it's completely manageable. Unfortunately, the machine won't be supported by next month's Mountain Lion OS release, supposedly because Apple says that the machine's GPU isn't quite up to the task of displaying some whizzy animations or other kinds of useless widgetized crap in the OS. Nonsense, of course. I understand the need to limit support of older machines in order to keep the cash flowing, but for a company sitting on mountains of cash, Apple has been getting worse, not better, in terms of longterm product life cycle support.

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Re: Thoughts on the new macbook?

Unread postby R-ten-K » Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:29 pm

Computers are a commodity now, they have been for a while. The most successful companies in the field are the ones who have recognized that basic fact, Apple being a good example. I have no idea why some people are having trouble getting this memo, since these sort of arguments get repeated ad infinitum in this forum.

Also, if some of you don't like change that is fine, but I'd recommend against getting so emotionally vested in a filed which is progressing at an almost exponential rate... you're going to have a hard time.

For what it is worth, I ordered one of the new retina mac books, to me it has the perfect balance of mobility and performance. The retina display is just gorgeous and perfect for the type of stuff I do most of the time with a computer: text editing (and photo editing every now and then).
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Re: Thoughts on the new macbook?

Unread postby hamei » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:40 pm

R-ten-K wrote:Also, if some of you don't like change that is fine, but I'd recommend against getting so emotionally vested in a filed which is progressing at an almost exponential rate... you're going to have a hard time.

Absolutely. I mean, computing is just so different ! .than it was ten years ago ! When I leave the Fuel I can barely figure out what to do ! And software ! Omigod ! It's like a different world, d00d !

The retina display is just gorgeous and perfect for the type of stuff I do most of the time with a computer: text editing (and photo editing every now and then)..

Oh man, you don't have to tell me just how great text editing is at 3800 x 2400. It's like tits, man. Really good, as soon as I bought that jeweler's loupe.

Hey, you missed one thing - there's a review at anandtech, you know what's really cool ? The SD card reader usually works now ! Is that some hot shit or what ?! Bro, next time I'm in the US I'll be pounding on the door at the nearest Apple Store where those hip young guys and girls can really give me the full low-down on this hi-tech schmutz. Lemme tell ya, I can hardly wait.


josehill wrote: ... for a company sitting on mountains of cash, Apple has been getting worse, not better, in terms of longterm product life cycle support.

Unfortunately, this is how real life is. The Invisible Hand and all that shit are just children's fantasies, spread around by the Cato Institution and the Heritage Foundation slimeballs to whitewash their thefts. The more money people get, the more they want. When they have 16 billion in cash they don't think, "heck, we're set for life, let's loosen the purse strings a little." They think "We only have 16 billion ! If we squeezed a little harder we could have 18 billion !" Law of human nature : greed feeds on itself. The very worst customers I ever had were the ones with the most money ... absolute shitheads. The HA were better, more honest customers and people.

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Re: Thoughts on the new macbook?

Unread postby R-ten-K » Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:07 am

*sigh*

If your fuel is OK for the things that you do, then that is fantastic, for you. Thing is, most people don't do the things you do with their computers. And since there are more of those people, who are obviously morons and unworthy of being your equal, than there are of you, it follows those idiots buying all those products are the ones driving the market not you.

Since I happen to spend a lot of time traveling and writing text/presentations/spreadsheets. etc, this laptop is perfect for me. I fail to see under what useful metric your fuel would be a better or equal alternative to this product for my intended application, but to each their own I guess.
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Re: Thoughts on the new macbook?

Unread postby theinonen » Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:54 am

R-ten-K wrote:Since I happen to spend a lot of time traveling and writing text/presentations/spreadsheets. etc, this laptop is perfect for me. I fail to see under what useful metric your fuel would be a better or equal alternative to this product for my intended application, but to each their own I guess.


All those things could easily be done with 15-year old computer, but the thing is that people always want new stuff even if there is no real need for it. You could buy some cheap netbook from the local supermarket that would do all those things equally well with only fraction of the cost.

From the hardware point of view I believe we are allready there and most of the extra power available today is just wasted on the stuff most people use it for. Things are more interesting on the software side and there are still lot to do to really harness all that power in real life use. Even the most powerful engine still needs a gearbox to be really useful.

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Re: Thoughts on the new macbook?

Unread postby R-ten-K » Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:51 am

Thank you I will pass. Luckily I can afford a machine with a very nice screen and that weights little, I happen to value my eyesight and I'm of the opinion that when it comes to luggage, the lighter the better.
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Re: Thoughts on the new macbook?

Unread postby hamei » Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:08 am

R-ten-K wrote:*sigh*

Absolutely ... You still don't get it ... Okay le, to drop the happy back-biting for a second and get serious, don't you realize when you say these things that people are going to call you on it ? Or has life moved so far away from fact in the "hi-tech industry" that people no longer have to deal with reality ?

I'd recommend against getting so emotionally vested in a filed which is progressing at an almost exponential rate... you're going to have a hard time.

Horse shit. Okay ? This is just plain old unadulterated horseshit. If you want a new Apple that's cool. If you like it that's great and you can sing Apple praises and hymns to Steve until the cows come home and I'd never say a mean word. My Assist has a Macbook. It's okay. I have no grudge against Apple users.

But when you tell me that "computing is progressing at an exponential rate" then I have to call you on it. The Emperor is nekkid. Bare-assed dinky-dick pot-belly hairy-butt white-legged nekkid.

Computing, at least in the consumer area, is not progressing at all. Not even one tiny little bit. If anything it is worse than five years ago. Or haven't you used Boogle recently ?

Oh wait ! I forgot about Fireflop adding XRender ! oh my, transparency ! clock hands you can see through ! Gosh, I am so sorry ...

If your fuel is OK for the things that you do, then that is fantastic, for you. Thing is, most people don't do the things you do with their computers.

You've said this before. And I've asked you what all these other people do. So far, no answer.

it follows those idiots buying all those products are the ones driving the market not you.

That part I'll have to agree with. But then, the part you seem to miss is "the market" is a pile of crap.

Since I happen to spend a lot of time traveling and writing text/presentations/spreadsheets. etc, this laptop is perfect for me.

Oh ! Well ! that's different if I only knew you were doing Power Point ! And spreadsheets ! That answers everything. No way on earth can a crummy old last-gen computer deal with spreadsheets ! Omigod, that's some rip-snortin' pawrful-ass computin' there ! I guess it's a big savings, now that you don't have to pay for time on Blue Gene, right ?

Sheesh. If you like the Apple, that's fine, ya know ? But the rest of us aren't dingshits. We don't need it. It doesn't do anything new and useful. It's a case of playing with your dick. That's okay. Lots of people like to play with their dicks. Look at all those people in 200 mph cars when the speed limit is 70. Cool for them. Just don't tell the rest of us we're "going to be having a hard time" if we don't keep up with the "exponential advances" in computing. For FEA guys maybe there are advances but for the average schmo, nothing has happened in ten years. Nothing. I can keep up with the advances in my sleep.

I fail to see under what useful metric your fuel would be a better or equal alternative to this product for my intended application, but to each their own I guess.

The point is that you were marvelling at all the advances in computing. if you'd care to point out a few I might agree. But so far, nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch. So please don't tell me what a hard time I'm going to have in life due to not buying the newest latest spiffiest product of the "hi-tech" industry. Then I won't have to tell you that your "advances" are a bunch of fantasies.

Deal ?


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