[solved]Indy showes some mystical graphic output
Forum rules
Any posts concerning pirated software or offering to buy/sell/trade commercial software are subject to removal.
Any posts concerning pirated software or offering to buy/sell/trade commercial software are subject to removal.
-
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:03 pm
[solved]Indy showes some mystical graphic output
Hi,
I am now a proud owner of a Indy R4400/200 64MB RAM 24Bit graphic box. I bought the system without any equipment but a preinstalled IRIX.
After getting the right adapter for converting 13w3 connector to VGA port, I was a little bit surprised by some color efects if the system comes up.. The complete screen showes gren, blue and some mixtures of theese colors. There is no red, no white and no real yellow. Coonnecting the SGI to an 24 inch LCD monitor oer to an 19inch CRT makes no real diference. At least using CRT screen management allows a better color managent for red. Well white color is not really present too.
Are there any hints for this problem?
Due to speaking german in a much better way than englich my search ends up with no results...
Thanks in advance from munich
Update:
The graphic option was a little bit brocken and after getting a new one from Ian I am solving next stage of problems.
Now I have two Indys and one Octane and one child and no time:-)
I am now a proud owner of a Indy R4400/200 64MB RAM 24Bit graphic box. I bought the system without any equipment but a preinstalled IRIX.
After getting the right adapter for converting 13w3 connector to VGA port, I was a little bit surprised by some color efects if the system comes up.. The complete screen showes gren, blue and some mixtures of theese colors. There is no red, no white and no real yellow. Coonnecting the SGI to an 24 inch LCD monitor oer to an 19inch CRT makes no real diference. At least using CRT screen management allows a better color managent for red. Well white color is not really present too.
Are there any hints for this problem?
Due to speaking german in a much better way than englich my search ends up with no results...
Thanks in advance from munich
Update:
The graphic option was a little bit brocken and after getting a new one from Ian I am solving next stage of problems.
Now I have two Indys and one Octane and one child and no time:-)
Last edited by alex_n505x on Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- guardian452
- Donor
- Posts: 3564
- Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:12 pm
- Location: United States
Re: Indy showes some mystical graphic output
First check: Are your monitors sync-on-green capable? If not, you will have a definite bluish-greenish tint, with no real white.
-
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:03 pm
Re: Indy showes some mystical graphic output
Thanks alot for your answer.
I was not sure if a non SOG capable monitor will generate a wrong colored sreen or or a complete non stable or non synchronized sreen?
Do you have some more information about this topic?
I was not sure if a non SOG capable monitor will generate a wrong colored sreen or or a complete non stable or non synchronized sreen?
Do you have some more information about this topic?
- PymbleSoftware
- Posts: 1891
- Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:48 pm
- Location: P.O. Box 529, Gordon, Sydney, NSW 2072, Australia.
- Contact:
Re: Indy showes some mystical graphic output
alex_n505x wrote:Thanks alot for your answer.
I was not sure if a non SOG capable monitor will generate a wrong colored sreen or or a complete non stable or non synchronized sreen?
Do you have some more information about this topic?
Sync on Green on a monitor that doesn't handle it produces a green tinge, mostly white and lighter colours look like light green or yellowish and darker colours, red or yellow look like brown or something.
The wiki has at least two topics..
http://www.nekochan.net/wiki/Monitors_on_SGI_Machines
http://www.nekochan.net/wiki/Monitors
R.
死の神はりんごだけ食べる
開いた括弧は必ず閉じる -- あるプログラマー
J5600, 2 x Mac, 3 x SUN, Alpha DS20E, Alpha 800 5/550, 3 x RS/6000, Amiga 4000 VideoToaster, Amiga4000 -030, 733MHz Sam440 AmigaOS 4.1 update 1.
HP C7000 BladeSever with 16 Blades 96Gb to 144Gb RAM per blade
HP C3000 Blade Server with 8 Blades 48Gb to 144Gb RAM per blade
Sold:
Tandem Himalaya S-Series Nonstop S72000 ServerNet.
Twitter @PymbleSoftware
Current Apps (iOS) -> https://itunes.apple.com/au/artist/pymb ... d553990081
(Android) https://play.google.com/store/apps/deve ... +Ltd&hl=en
(Onyx2) Cortex ---> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cortex-th ... 11?sk=info
(0300s) Minnie ---> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Minnie-th ... 02?sk=info
Github ---> https://github.com/pymblesoftware
開いた括弧は必ず閉じる -- あるプログラマー























HP C7000 BladeSever with 16 Blades 96Gb to 144Gb RAM per blade
HP C3000 Blade Server with 8 Blades 48Gb to 144Gb RAM per blade
Sold:




Twitter @PymbleSoftware
Current Apps (iOS) -> https://itunes.apple.com/au/artist/pymb ... d553990081
(Android) https://play.google.com/store/apps/deve ... +Ltd&hl=en
(Onyx2) Cortex ---> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cortex-th ... 11?sk=info
(0300s) Minnie ---> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Minnie-th ... 02?sk=info
Github ---> https://github.com/pymblesoftware
- jan-jaap
- Donor
- Posts: 5023
- Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 11:35 am
- Location: Wijchen, The Netherlands
- Contact:
Re: Indy showes some mystical graphic output
PymbleSoftware wrote:alex_n505x wrote:Thanks alot for your answer.
I was not sure if a non SOG capable monitor will generate a wrong colored sreen or or a complete non stable or non synchronized sreen?
Do you have some more information about this topic?
Sync on Green on a monitor that doesn't handle it produces a green tinge, mostly white and lighter colours look like light green or yellowish and darker colours, red or yellow look like brown or something.
SOG on a monitor that cannot handle it will result in a loss of sync, e.g. lots of stripes, wild scrolling etc.
However, some SGIs including the Indy and the O2 also supply H, V and/or C-sync signals, and the monitor might sync to those. Because the green signal still contains a sync signal as well, the monitor must be able to ignore this, or it will show a greenish picture. The term 'SOG tolerant' has been coined for this.
























To accentuate the special identity of the IRIS 4D/70, Silicon Graphics' designers selected a new color palette. The machine's coating blends dark grey, raspberry and beige colors into a pleasing harmony. (IRIS 4D/70 Superworkstation Technical Report)
- guardian452
- Donor
- Posts: 3564
- Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:12 pm
- Location: United States
Re: Indy showes some mystical graphic output
Non-sog compatible monitor in my experience will look like it is coated in a thick layer of algae like a dirty aquarium... A definite greenish tint with weak reds. Don't bust out the plecostomus yet 
It is hard to determine exactly what the problem is from your description, if you would be so kind as to share a picture, it would be easier to diagnose. You can attach smaller pictures directly. In reality from your description the problem could also be software misconfiguration or broken framebuffer... IIRC there is still some red, I wish I had a photo of what non-sog tolerant monitor looked like.

It is hard to determine exactly what the problem is from your description, if you would be so kind as to share a picture, it would be easier to diagnose. You can attach smaller pictures directly. In reality from your description the problem could also be software misconfiguration or broken framebuffer... IIRC there is still some red, I wish I had a photo of what non-sog tolerant monitor looked like.
-
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:03 pm
Re: Indy showes some mystical graphic output
Is there same web space available like the sgi hardware lib or should I use some external web space like drop box for uploading a screen shot.
This is just another newbe topic to me....
This is just another newbe topic to me....

Re: Indy showes some mystical graphic output
You can attach an image file directly to your posts. Just use "Post Reply" instead of "Quick Reply," and the attachment interface will be available at the bottom of the reply page.
-
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:03 pm
Re: Indy showes some mystical graphic output
Well, take a look... 
This is the snap shoot from my Samsung LCD

This is the snap shoot from my Samsung LCD
- guardian452
- Donor
- Posts: 3564
- Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:12 pm
- Location: United States
Re: Indy showes some mystical graphic output
Yes, that is an almost foolproof sign of a display without SOG enabled. What is the model # of the panel, there might be an option in the menus to turn it on.
Re: Indy showes some mystical graphic output
Yes, it looks like you have a sync-on-green tolerant display, as jan-jaap described. The Indy is sending sync signals over the green channel, and the display does not know how to handle those signals. If all of this works the way I think it does, your display interprets that signal as "extra green" and adds it to every pixel.
For things to display correctly, you will need to find a composite sync-on-green compatible display, which correctly accepts sync signals over the green channel.
As guardian452 suggested, it might be possible that your display can be configured via menus to be sync-on-green compatible, though that is relatively rare.
For things to display correctly, you will need to find a composite sync-on-green compatible display, which correctly accepts sync signals over the green channel.
As guardian452 suggested, it might be possible that your display can be configured via menus to be sync-on-green compatible, though that is relatively rare.
-
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:03 pm
Re: Indy showes some mystical graphic output
For the moment I am afaid that Ihave to live with more green, cause I am trying to get another complete Indy R4400 with almost everything, like 21inch SGI CRT with remote control, external SCSI HDD drive and CDROM and Indy CAM and some CDs.
I will write some details, if I get more information about system and equipment.
Maybe I have to offer a Indy box in Germany in February
By the way: will it work, if I am using a PS2/VGA KVM switch for 2Indys?
I will write some details, if I get more information about system and equipment.
Maybe I have to offer a Indy box in Germany in February

By the way: will it work, if I am using a PS2/VGA KVM switch for 2Indys?
Re: Indy showes some mystical graphic output
I don't know if this is your problem, but a poor 13W3 to VGA adapter can cause issues. I'm using this 13W3 to VGA adapter with my Octane:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/13W3-M-HD15-SGI-adapter-Octane-Octane2-workstation-PC-VGA-monitor-DB13W3-/320813931477
It works really well - picture is clear and crisp and the the color balance is fine. I'm running it through a KVM switch sharing a monitor with another machine and I've had no problems. My monitor is an Acer X223W. I can't find whether that monitor supports SoG, but the eBay seller assured me specifically that this would work with monitors that did not support SoG (I asked before I bought). I also got another 13W3 adapter for my Sun machine from the same guy and it's way, way better than the one that came with the machine (which was just a hacked up Sun monitor cable). They're pretty expensive compared to some of the other adapters on there, but this may be a case of 'you get what you pay for'. The same seller has another adapter that is listed as for Indy machines, although there's no obvious difference as far as I can tell.
I have nothing to do with this seller - I'm just reporting my experience.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/13W3-M-HD15-SGI-adapter-Octane-Octane2-workstation-PC-VGA-monitor-DB13W3-/320813931477
It works really well - picture is clear and crisp and the the color balance is fine. I'm running it through a KVM switch sharing a monitor with another machine and I've had no problems. My monitor is an Acer X223W. I can't find whether that monitor supports SoG, but the eBay seller assured me specifically that this would work with monitors that did not support SoG (I asked before I bought). I also got another 13W3 adapter for my Sun machine from the same guy and it's way, way better than the one that came with the machine (which was just a hacked up Sun monitor cable). They're pretty expensive compared to some of the other adapters on there, but this may be a case of 'you get what you pay for'. The same seller has another adapter that is listed as for Indy machines, although there's no obvious difference as far as I can tell.
I have nothing to do with this seller - I'm just reporting my experience.



- PymbleSoftware
- Posts: 1891
- Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:48 pm
- Location: P.O. Box 529, Gordon, Sydney, NSW 2072, Australia.
- Contact:
Re: Indy showes some mystical graphic output
Some of this knowledge or wisdom going back to the wiki might help people in future. The whole VGA/13w3/SoG thing is a bit of a trap for new players...
R.
R.
死の神はりんごだけ食べる
開いた括弧は必ず閉じる -- あるプログラマー
J5600, 2 x Mac, 3 x SUN, Alpha DS20E, Alpha 800 5/550, 3 x RS/6000, Amiga 4000 VideoToaster, Amiga4000 -030, 733MHz Sam440 AmigaOS 4.1 update 1.
HP C7000 BladeSever with 16 Blades 96Gb to 144Gb RAM per blade
HP C3000 Blade Server with 8 Blades 48Gb to 144Gb RAM per blade
Sold:
Tandem Himalaya S-Series Nonstop S72000 ServerNet.
Twitter @PymbleSoftware
Current Apps (iOS) -> https://itunes.apple.com/au/artist/pymb ... d553990081
(Android) https://play.google.com/store/apps/deve ... +Ltd&hl=en
(Onyx2) Cortex ---> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cortex-th ... 11?sk=info
(0300s) Minnie ---> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Minnie-th ... 02?sk=info
Github ---> https://github.com/pymblesoftware
開いた括弧は必ず閉じる -- あるプログラマー























HP C7000 BladeSever with 16 Blades 96Gb to 144Gb RAM per blade
HP C3000 Blade Server with 8 Blades 48Gb to 144Gb RAM per blade
Sold:




Twitter @PymbleSoftware
Current Apps (iOS) -> https://itunes.apple.com/au/artist/pymb ... d553990081
(Android) https://play.google.com/store/apps/deve ... +Ltd&hl=en
(Onyx2) Cortex ---> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cortex-th ... 11?sk=info
(0300s) Minnie ---> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Minnie-th ... 02?sk=info
Github ---> https://github.com/pymblesoftware
- guardian452
- Donor
- Posts: 3564
- Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:12 pm
- Location: United States
Re: Indy showes some mystical graphic output
His panel is getting the H/V sync just fine... no problem with the cable.
Just cannot tolerate the extra green sync. If you look at the waveforms of a SOG signal you will see how this works. I've always assumed (i.e. nobody ever told me and I never looked that much into it... so take this with a grain of salt) the green tint comes from the negative sync pulses and that throws off the ground voltage reference of the signal.
I have heard of people building a converter, I know it is very simple to go the other way (i.e. separate h/v to an sog monitor), or patching the gamma curve to compensate, but the easiest thing is to just wait until you get the SGI tube.
Just cannot tolerate the extra green sync. If you look at the waveforms of a SOG signal you will see how this works. I've always assumed (i.e. nobody ever told me and I never looked that much into it... so take this with a grain of salt) the green tint comes from the negative sync pulses and that throws off the ground voltage reference of the signal.
I have heard of people building a converter, I know it is very simple to go the other way (i.e. separate h/v to an sog monitor), or patching the gamma curve to compensate, but the easiest thing is to just wait until you get the SGI tube.
Last edited by guardian452 on Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests