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Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:43 pm 
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Hi,
I am now a proud owner of a Indy R4400/200 64MB RAM 24Bit graphic box. I bought the system without any equipment but a preinstalled IRIX.
After getting the right adapter for converting 13w3 connector to VGA port, I was a little bit surprised by some color efects if the system comes up.. The complete screen showes gren, blue and some mixtures of theese colors. There is no red, no white and no real yellow. Coonnecting the SGI to an 24 inch LCD monitor oer to an 19inch CRT makes no real diference. At least using CRT screen management allows a better color managent for red. Well white color is not really present too.
Are there any hints for this problem?
Due to speaking german in a much better way than englich my search ends up with no results...
Thanks in advance from munich

Update:
The graphic option was a little bit brocken and after getting a new one from Ian I am solving next stage of problems.
Now I have two Indys and one Octane and one child and no time:-)


Last edited by alex_n505x on Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:15 pm 
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First check: Are your monitors sync-on-green capable? If not, you will have a definite bluish-greenish tint, with no real white.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:19 am 
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Thanks alot for your answer.
I was not sure if a non SOG capable monitor will generate a wrong colored sreen or or a complete non stable or non synchronized sreen?
Do you have some more information about this topic?


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Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:11 am 
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alex_n505x wrote:
Thanks alot for your answer.
I was not sure if a non SOG capable monitor will generate a wrong colored sreen or or a complete non stable or non synchronized sreen?
Do you have some more information about this topic?


Sync on Green on a monitor that doesn't handle it produces a green tinge, mostly white and lighter colours look like light green or yellowish and darker colours, red or yellow look like brown or something.

The wiki has at least two topics..
http://www.nekochan.net/wiki/Monitors_on_SGI_Machines

http://www.nekochan.net/wiki/Monitors

R.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:17 am 
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PymbleSoftware wrote:
alex_n505x wrote:
Thanks alot for your answer.
I was not sure if a non SOG capable monitor will generate a wrong colored sreen or or a complete non stable or non synchronized sreen?
Do you have some more information about this topic?


Sync on Green on a monitor that doesn't handle it produces a green tinge, mostly white and lighter colours look like light green or yellowish and darker colours, red or yellow look like brown or something.

SOG on a monitor that cannot handle it will result in a loss of sync, e.g. lots of stripes, wild scrolling etc.

However, some SGIs including the Indy and the O2 also supply H, V and/or C-sync signals, and the monitor might sync to those. Because the green signal still contains a sync signal as well, the monitor must be able to ignore this, or it will show a greenish picture. The term 'SOG tolerant' has been coined for this.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:46 am 
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Non-sog compatible monitor in my experience will look like it is coated in a thick layer of algae like a dirty aquarium... A definite greenish tint with weak reds. Don't bust out the plecostomus yet ;)

It is hard to determine exactly what the problem is from your description, if you would be so kind as to share a picture, it would be easier to diagnose. You can attach smaller pictures directly. In reality from your description the problem could also be software misconfiguration or broken framebuffer... IIRC there is still some red, I wish I had a photo of what non-sog tolerant monitor looked like.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:10 pm 
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Is there same web space available like the sgi hardware lib or should I use some external web space like drop box for uploading a screen shot.
This is just another newbe topic to me.... :oops:


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Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:10 pm 
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You can attach an image file directly to your posts. Just use "Post Reply" instead of "Quick Reply," and the attachment interface will be available at the bottom of the reply page.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:52 am 
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Well, take a look... ;-)
This is the snap shoot from my Samsung LCD


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Unread postPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:12 pm 
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Yes, that is an almost foolproof sign of a display without SOG enabled. What is the model # of the panel, there might be an option in the menus to turn it on.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 8:10 pm 
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Yes, it looks like you have a sync-on-green tolerant display, as jan-jaap described. The Indy is sending sync signals over the green channel, and the display does not know how to handle those signals. If all of this works the way I think it does, your display interprets that signal as "extra green" and adds it to every pixel.

For things to display correctly, you will need to find a composite sync-on-green compatible display, which correctly accepts sync signals over the green channel.

As guardian452 suggested, it might be possible that your display can be configured via menus to be sync-on-green compatible, though that is relatively rare.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:12 pm 
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For the moment I am afaid that Ihave to live with more green, cause I am trying to get another complete Indy R4400 with almost everything, like 21inch SGI CRT with remote control, external SCSI HDD drive and CDROM and Indy CAM and some CDs.
I will write some details, if I get more information about system and equipment.
Maybe I have to offer a Indy box in Germany in February ;-)

By the way: will it work, if I am using a PS2/VGA KVM switch for 2Indys?


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Unread postPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:51 pm 
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I don't know if this is your problem, but a poor 13W3 to VGA adapter can cause issues. I'm using this 13W3 to VGA adapter with my Octane:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/13W3-M-HD15-SGI-adapter-Octane-Octane2-workstation-PC-VGA-monitor-DB13W3-/320813931477

It works really well - picture is clear and crisp and the the color balance is fine. I'm running it through a KVM switch sharing a monitor with another machine and I've had no problems. My monitor is an Acer X223W. I can't find whether that monitor supports SoG, but the eBay seller assured me specifically that this would work with monitors that did not support SoG (I asked before I bought). I also got another 13W3 adapter for my Sun machine from the same guy and it's way, way better than the one that came with the machine (which was just a hacked up Sun monitor cable). They're pretty expensive compared to some of the other adapters on there, but this may be a case of 'you get what you pay for'. The same seller has another adapter that is listed as for Indy machines, although there's no obvious difference as far as I can tell.

I have nothing to do with this seller - I'm just reporting my experience.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:08 pm 
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Some of this knowledge or wisdom going back to the wiki might help people in future. The whole VGA/13w3/SoG thing is a bit of a trap for new players...


R.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:09 pm 
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His panel is getting the H/V sync just fine... no problem with the cable.

Just cannot tolerate the extra green sync. If you look at the waveforms of a SOG signal you will see how this works. I've always assumed (i.e. nobody ever told me and I never looked that much into it... so take this with a grain of salt) the green tint comes from the negative sync pulses and that throws off the ground voltage reference of the signal.

I have heard of people building a converter, I know it is very simple to go the other way (i.e. separate h/v to an sog monitor), or patching the gamma curve to compensate, but the easiest thing is to just wait until you get the SGI tube.

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Last edited by guardian452 on Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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