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 Post subject: Re: Fuel PSU problems
Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:07 pm 
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Well "flash status" is part of the recommended procedure in the Wiki page hinv forum guidelines, so hopefully it will figure in more posts going forward. It might help if a link to that page were in the banner for the hinv forum, instead of the note about hinv and gfxinfo output...

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 Post subject: Re: Fuel PSU problems
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:38 am 
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recondas wrote:
jan-jaap wrote:
nor did anyone bother to mention 'l1cmd version' output in the 'hinv' forum ...
Guilty as charged :D However there are several that included the output of "flash status" run against the L1 - which gives the same info for both L1 firmware images. smj's 700MHz is at 1.44.4, and both of Fuels I have are at 1.26.5

Absolutely true, but the actual version number was of course not what I was after looking at L1 "version" output ;)

For a given L1 version, there's more than one image:
Code:
# flashsc -v /usr/cpu/firmware/sysco/l1.bin
flashsc: (System Controller Flash Utility) - Version 1.4.1
Multi-image binary contains 7 flash images.
Image 0: L1 version 1.48.1, Built 01/22/2007 11:33:34  [Base 1MB image]
Image 1: L1 version 1.48.1, Built 01/22/2007 11:34:20  [Fuel/PE/O300 1MB image]
Image 2: L1 version 1.48.1, Built 01/22/2007 11:34:34  [MIPS 2MB image]
Image 3: L1 version 1.48.1, Built 01/22/2007 11:34:57  [Legacy 2MB image]
Image 4: L1 version 1.48.1, Built 01/22/2007 11:36:34  [Legacy Linux L1 image]
Image 5: L1 version 1.48.1, Built 01/22/2007 11:35:27  [2MB image]
Image 6: L1 version 1.48.1, Built 01/23/2007 10:17:58  [Linux L1 image]

The problem with my Fuel is that I flashed it with version 1.48.1 while it was running something < 1.22.2 which is not good.
As a result of this (?), my 1.48.1 image is the "Base 1MB image" rather than the appropriate "Fuel/PE/O300 1MB image", and this information is *not* in the L1 "status" output.

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 Post subject: Re: Fuel PSU problems
Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:36 am 
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Successfully upgraded the L1 on my Fuel to the last rev (1.48.1) using tjsgifan's recipe (thanks!). PSU still recognized :)

I'll stop hijacking your thread now ;)

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Now this is a deep dark secret, so everybody keep it quiet :)
It turns out that when reset, the WD33C93 defaults to a SCSI ID of 0, and it was simpler to leave it that way... -- Dave Olson, in comp.sys.sgi

Currently in commercial service: Image :Onyx2:(2x) :O3x02L:
In the museum: almost every MIPS/IRIX system.
Wanted: GM1 board for Professional Series GT graphics (030-0076-003, 030-0076-004)


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel PSU problems
Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:25 pm 
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Hello,

Can you more info about 'tjsgifan's recipe' ?

Regards,

Mark


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel PSU problems
Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:58 pm 
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jan-jaap wrote:
Successfully upgraded the L1 on my Fuel to the last rev (1.48.1) using tjsgifan's recipe (thanks!). PSU still recognized :)

I'll stop hijacking your thread now ;)


No problem. Great that you got the blue freak going again :D

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 Post subject: Re: Fuel PSU problems
Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:10 am 
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Mark_G wrote:
Can you more info about 'tjsgifan's recipe' ?

I linked to it twice already in this thread, but here it is: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16721376&p=7303920

Basically, if you want to upgrade the L1 from an old version, you have to install IRIX 6.5.21 and flash to version 1.22.2 first. I did 1.9.x -> 1.22.2 -> 1.32.6 -> 1.48.1

Up to (and including) version 1.22.2, there were two L1 binaries, one of 1MB and one of 2MB. In the newer versions there's a 'Base 1MB' and a 'Fuel/PE/O300 1MB' image. It looks like the flashsc program will flash the wrong (Base) image into the Fuel if you skip he intermediate steps.

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Now this is a deep dark secret, so everybody keep it quiet :)
It turns out that when reset, the WD33C93 defaults to a SCSI ID of 0, and it was simpler to leave it that way... -- Dave Olson, in comp.sys.sgi

Currently in commercial service: Image :Onyx2:(2x) :O3x02L:
In the museum: almost every MIPS/IRIX system.
Wanted: GM1 board for Professional Series GT graphics (030-0076-003, 030-0076-004)


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel PSU problems
Unread postPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:27 pm 
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Pontus wrote:
Checking the pinout on the 24 pin P1 connector it doesn't match the color coding of neither ATX or WTX specs, but the _alternate_ pinout here http://pinouts.ru/Power/wtxmain_pinout.shtml matches except for one pin. That page also states that there is a 6-pin header used with the alternate pinout for CPU power, which the Fuel uses (well, it's a 8 pin connector but 2 are not connected).

As a follow up to Pontus' excellent description of the differences between the pinout of the 24-pin connector used in alternative WTX and Fuel HiPro HP-W460GC33 power supplies, I took a few minutes and created a table that helps to illustrate the differences and similarities of the (alternative) WTX, the Fuel Sparkle FSP460-60PFN, a generic Sparkle ATX2.2 FSP460-460PFN and ATX2.2 power supply pinouts side-by-side.

The WTX pinout was taken from the pinouts.ru page linked by Pontus, the Fuel PS pinout was derived from photographs posted by 87Porsche of the 24-pin connector on his Fuel's Sparkle FSP460-60PFN 460W power supply, and the list of wire colors/voltages printed on the Fuel/Sparkle power supply label.

I obtained a non-SGI/ATX2.2 version of the Sparkle power supply that uses the same FSP460-60PFN part number as the SGI version, but with an ATX 2.2 pinout. The non-SGI Sparkle FSP460-60PFN uses the same Nidec D08T-12PU cooling fan as the SGI version, which may eliminate the fan issues Pontus experienced.

The pinout of the non-SGI/ATX2.2 power supply is included in the table for comparison, as is the standard ATX 2.2 pinout (which also provides additional clues as to the electrical values of wire colors not listed on either Sparkle label). Hopefully a side-by-side of the four color-coded pinouts will serve as sort of a Fuel Power Supply Rosetta Stone.

Obvious differences between the WTX and Fuel Power Supply pinouts:
  • Pin 3 in the WTX pinout is an orange wire listed as "3.3VDC Sense", the values for the brown wire connected to pin 3 of the SGI/Sparkle aren't listed on the label, but the ATX/EPS version of the Sparkle power supply (with the same FSP460-60PFN part number) piggybacks the brown wire into the motherboard connector with one of the orange +3.3VDC wires (ATX pinouts from other sources list the brown wire as 3.3V Aux)
  • Pin7 is listed in the WTX pinout as "+5VDC (Aux)", the purple wire connected to pin 7 of the SGI/Sparkle is listed as "+5Vsb" (sb = standby).
  • Pins 11 (PC), 12 (FAN C), 23 (PSON) and 24 (FAN M) aren't assigned specific wire colors or values in the WTX pinout, the colors and values used in the SGI/Sparkle connector most likely provide environmental monitoring of the power supply to the Fuel L1.

Note that the WTX and SGI pinouts for the eight-pin connector used to supply CPU power (labeled "P2" in the Sparkle power supply wiring bundle) are different. The available photos of the SGI version of the Sparkle PS don't provide a clear view of that connector, so it hasn't been included yet. I'll update the post as soon as I have an opportunity to open one of the Fuels.

Please double check the values given in the table *and* the unlisted CPU power connector *before* attempting any to use an alternative power supply in your Fuel!!

The chart visible in this post is a jpeg, if the text proves hard to read in that format, the pdf version attached should be easier to read.


Attachments:
Fuel-WTX_Pinout.jpg
Fuel-WTX_Pinout.jpg [ 130.99 KiB | Viewed 549 times ]
Fuel-WTX_Pinout.pdf [28.03 KiB]
Downloaded 34 times

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 Post subject: Re: Fuel PSU problems
Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:30 am 
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Most excellent. I have it on my todo-list to investigate the FAN-issues, but there are sooo many other fun things to do :)

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 Post subject: Re: Fuel PSU problems
Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:05 pm 
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Had an opportunity to extract the Sparkle FSP460-60PFN power supply from one of the Fuels and open it side-by-side with the PC-ATX version (that carries the same Sparkle part number).

First a comparison of the the labeling (the SGI version is on top). Not seen in this view, but the non-SGI/PC-ATX version is labeled "For Intel", so to minimize confusion I'll refer to them as the Intel or SGI verions.
Attachment:
Sparklers.jpg
Sparklers.jpg [ 249.63 KiB | Viewed 464 times ]


The layout of the interior of the two power supplies is almost identical. The most notable difference between the two is a small circuit board, which is present in the SGI version but absent in the Intel version.
Attachment:
Extra_PCB.jpg
Extra_PCB.jpg [ 275.54 KiB | Viewed 464 times ]


It would appear the extra circuit board is there to provide the SGI version environmental/fan monitoring and control, the fan cable in the SGI version is routed to the extra circuit board.
Attachment:
SGI_Fan_PCB.jpg
SGI_Fan_PCB.jpg [ 222.32 KiB | Viewed 464 times ]
Both the Intel and SGI versions have a Nidec BetaSL model D08T-12U fan - the SGI version has three wires, the one used in the Intel version two.

In the Intel version the fan is connected to the main power supply PCB:
Attachment:
Intel_Fan_Header.jpg
Intel_Fan_Header.jpg [ 160.13 KiB | Viewed 464 times ]
The fan header location used in the Intel version is marked on the main PCB in the SGI version, but no connection header was soldered in during assembly:
Attachment:
SGI_Fan_Header.jpg
SGI_Fan_Header.jpg [ 168.58 KiB | Viewed 464 times ]


My guess is that the Fuel's L1 environmental monitoring won't work as intended without the additional circuit board (though it may be possible to wire the fan using the same method as pontus illustrated earlier in this thread).

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 Post subject: Re: Fuel PSU problems
Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:43 pm 
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Would be cool if some of this made its way back to the wiki.
Not me, I know little about Fuels.

R.

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 Post subject: Re: Fuel PSU problems
Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:27 am 
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Cool. This could mean that, with some proper reverse-engineering and a copy of the board, we could try to "SGI-alize" that Intel-spec PSU.

If that's successful there's that obvious step forward and go try the same "extra circuit board" trick on other power supply, ofcourse depending how deeply involved this little extra circuit board might be to the rest of the Sparkle PSU design.

To carry on dreaming - is this thing even bound to be inside the PSU? Can it be tricked to stay between PSU and motherboard connector?
Imagine a piggyback configuration made up of a short PSU extension connector cable and use regular ATX power supply. Fuel believe PSU fan is doing alright, while the PSU has its own fan environmental controlling. Oh, the possibilities... (Or maybe I'm on a crackpipe this morning)

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 Post subject: Re: Fuel PSU problems
Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:24 am 
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@Recondas: good work!

ramq wrote:
Cool. This could mean that, with some proper reverse-engineering and a copy of the board, we could try to "SGI-alize" that Intel-spec PSU

Only if your aim is not to increase the world wide supply of 'SGI-spec' PSU's.

If you're just looking for a way to get a dead Fuel going again, transplanting that little PCB from a dead SGI-spec to the vanilla Intel-spec PSU is probably what you want to do, and doesn't require any reverse engineering :)

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Now this is a deep dark secret, so everybody keep it quiet :)
It turns out that when reset, the WD33C93 defaults to a SCSI ID of 0, and it was simpler to leave it that way... -- Dave Olson, in comp.sys.sgi

Currently in commercial service: Image :Onyx2:(2x) :O3x02L:
In the museum: almost every MIPS/IRIX system.
Wanted: GM1 board for Professional Series GT graphics (030-0076-003, 030-0076-004)


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel PSU problems
Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:35 am 
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@recondas, if you are willing to do a bit more disassembly, could you take an extra pic of that SGI specific board?

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 Post subject: Re: Fuel PSU problems
Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:31 pm 
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guardian452 wrote:
@recondas, if you are willing to do a bit more disassembly, could you take an extra pic of that SGI specific board?
That was my original intention, but even with the attachment screw removed there's too little play in the wiring to turn the board far enough to get a shot of the surface components - didn't want to risk breaking a solder connection and fubar a working PS.

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 Post subject: Re: Fuel PSU problems
Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:12 pm 
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Alright, well I was just curious :)

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