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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:40 pm 
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Location: P.O. Box 121, Pymble, Sydney, NSW 2073, Australia.
I've been spending a lot of time in a large newspaper and media empire... In one of the other teams, this guy is quite keen on Magnesium. I suspect that a lot of people here use computers a lot... Some here probably have symptoms of RSI...

What do people here think, any experiences with RSI, thoughts about dietary supplements, etc...?
Blame your chiropractors bills on heavy computer use etc...?
Blame the industry for long hours, unhealthy diet and sedentary lifestyle...?

I guess thanking about this, any thoughts about healthy vs unhealthy computing..??

This guy I am currently working a few rows of cubicles from me makes all kinds of claims about magnesium deficiency...

he wrote:
Are you suffering chronic symptoms that may be due to deficiency of Magnesium ?
If you experience 3 or more of the following symptoms, you may have some degree of Magnesium deficiency.

Depression, mood swings or panic attacks
Cramps, stiff neck, stiff back, general muscular tightness sometimes RSI
Fibromyalgia ( muscle aches)
Sleep disorder: difficulty falling asleep or waking up several times a night
CFS: Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
Bruxism - night time teeth grinding
Bladder related issue- frequent urination
Nervous, easily startled by noise, jumpy
Periodontitis - loose teeth due to insufficient bone material
Dental cavities
Osteoporosis ( brittle bone in older folks)
Migraines
Foggy mind, poor memory
Restless leg syndrome - compulsion to shake legs whilst sitting at rest
Eyelid twitches


more stuff...
http://magnesium-supplementation.blogsp ... water.html
http://hubpages.com/hub/What-to-do-if-y ... uter-pains

Quote:
Factors that block or reduce the body's magnesium

Too much tea especially if taken within 1 hour of magnesium intake ( Tea tannins block magnesium absorption)
Soy Milk ( Soy Phytates block mineral absorption )
Alcohol flushes out magnesium from the liver, which explains why many people who binge drink suffer depression, cramps and sleep issues


Australia puts Fluoride in the water and this guy I work near is a strong advocate of magnesium supplements and drinking bottled water... and no he is not selling anything but he is known around the office as "the Magnesium guy"...

I could eat more of certain vegitables and peanut butter and stuff thats supposed to have magnesium in it..

Or is it just a bunch of hippy hokem...?

R.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:26 pm 
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PymbleSoftware wrote:
Or is it just a bunch of hippy hokem...?

Pretty much.

There is essentially zero evidence for it in the medical literature, aside from a single, small study of about a dozen people with RSI published by a single author about twenty-five years ago. That study found somewhat higher concentrations of fluoride in bone samples extracted during dental surgery from patients with RSI than in similar bone samples taken from patients without RSI. Likewise, the study found somewhat lower levels of magnesium in the RSI samples than in the non-RSI samples. This result is purely correlative, not causative, and, again, the study size is quite small. Despite the apparent inability of anyone to reproduce or to extend the result in the subsequent decades, certain segments of the alternative medicine crowd have seized on that preliminary finding to advocate against fluoride in water and in favor of magnesium supplements.

Magnesium is important enough to the normal operation of the body that its levels are exquisitely maintained, except in people with particular conditions like diabetes or who are on certain types of medications. If your magnesium levels are too low, you'll probably have far bigger problems than RSI.

PS. The author of that study was a dental surgeon, by the way. Maybe fluoride in the water was bad for his business? :D


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Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:10 pm 
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I am not a surgeon but I am married to one ;-). RSI-type of injuries (I suspect carpal tunnel syndrome is your worry) are due mostly to "mechanical" issues. In other words, if your car gets a flat, checking and topping off the radiator fluid levels will not fix the tire... although it wouldn't hurt.

The best way to deal with RSI injuries is to conduct preventive "mechanical" measures: typing breaks, proper position, etc.

PS. Jose, ironically one of the biggest lobbies behind the push for water fluoridation in the USA has been the American Dental Association.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:10 am 
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Some physiotherapists are very firm on the idea that RSI can be corrected by massaging the affected tendons and ligaments. They liken the injury to 'Tennis Elbow', where the muscles tighten up and remain tight - which causes the pain when any attempt is made to use them.

In the case of RSI in arms and hands, there will be ligaments which tighten up and remain tight. This can be tested yourself by pressing your thumb (say) into your wrist areas where ligaments are. If you are not able to press hard without pain in ALL areas so that the ligaments/muscles are pressed against bones, then these ligaments need to be loosened up. Try also on top of your arms pressing the ligaments up against the bones. Any pain indicates tight ligaments.

If these areas are worked over and over again, then the affected ligaments can loosen up and relieving the problems of RSI.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:30 am 
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R-ten-K wrote:
I am not a surgeon but I am married to one ;-).

So your Dr Wife is real one, not just a PhD. Speaking of the devil look who just came home.

R-ten-K wrote:
The best way to deal with RSI injuries is to conduct preventive "mechanical" measures: typing breaks, proper position, etc.


I have been programming on "real" keyboards since 1986.... recently I have been forced into lots and lots of travel and constant use of laptop keyboards. :(

R.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:15 am 
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Magnesium is everywhere and it is extremely difficult to experiment a deficiency of this element if you are not suffering from something. Your magnesium levels can be low if you have severe diarrea or you are vomiting like crazy. Diabetic people can also have problems, and the same is true if your kidneys are not OK but, apart from these cases, you should not worry at all :).

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Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:23 pm 
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The closest thing that I've had to RSI/CTS is ankle tendonitis. not fun. Three big things IMO to help avoid it:

- warm up before / stretch during and afterwards
- don't be dehydrated and keep the proper ratio of water and powerade (for me, 1 32 oz powerade every time I refill my gallon jug of water, about 1:4. If I'm not going to be drinking more than 1.5 - 2 gallons of water then I don't bother with the powerade.
- if you feel something not right, don't keep beating on it


soooo.... it was a rather unfortunate combination of these three things that kept me 'grounded' for a little over a month last year.

#1... I was going all day and didn't feel like stretching out during lunch and dinner breaks.

#2... I was out of powerade... had about 3 gallons of water, a pb&j and banana for lunch, an orange and some cheese for dinner, in about 95*F weather and dripping humidity. I remember the day quite well as a matter of fact. I came home from a scorching day at work at around 3.30 pm and what was particularly memorable... the blower in the parent's central air had crapped out. Grabbed some food and making sure the house was sealed up tight to keep most of the humidity and heat out, I headed out to make some extra $$ with my cylinder mower and later 7-a-side football. which leads us to...

#3... I felt something give out but since that had never happened to me before I wasn't sure what to expect and tried to run it off. after a few days I thought it was better, it wasn't. I re-tweeked it a couple of times and all in all it was about 6 weeks until I was 'good to go' again.

Nowhere in my own research and no doctor who saw me said anything about magnesium. Of course RSI, CTS and tendinitis are different...

Curious what sort of diet you should have to keep proper levels of magnesium... should I be licking my thinkpad? I only have meat a maybe once a week (not counting seafood)... nowadays I'm big on fruit for breakfast and typically a bowl of spinach and lettuce salad for lunch, pasta and seafood for dinner. All goes out the window when I'm on the road of course. I always try to eat what tastes good... if it isn't good for you then it isn't supposed to taste good!


More to the point...when I'm working on a computer I get up at least every hour. Otherwise I get ants in my pants.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:59 pm 
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sybrfreq wrote:
Curious what sort of diet you should have to keep proper levels of magnesium... should I be licking my thinkpad? I only have meat a maybe once a week (not counting seafood)... nowadays I'm big on fruit for breakfast and typically a bowl of spinach and lettuce salad for lunch, pasta and seafood for dinner. All goes out the window when I'm on the road of course. I always try to eat what tastes good... if it isn't good for you then it isn't supposed to taste good!


Supposedly from some list I think I recall fairly regular stuff... Green Tea, Milk, bread, spinach, sprouts, and veggies that not many people like are supposed be good sources along with a type of carbonated mineral water I like anyway (compared to filtered or tap water), nuts, peanuts especially and peanut butter. But there are supposed to be foods that block magnesium, black leaf tea and alcohol being amongst them.

sybrfreq wrote:
More to the point...when I'm working on a computer I get up at least every hour. Otherwise I get ants in my pants.


I am resisting the urge to make some kind of crack about animating or programming on ant hills or something. I walk around to the coffee machine a few times a day but generally slacking off in an Asian multinational is not viewed well.


Maybe with all this naturopath stuff all you really need is a good placebo.
I think I am going to end up with a bit of traditional Chinese medicine anyway.


R.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:23 pm 
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When my wrists started to ache I switched to dvorak keyboard layout 4 years ago and everything's is back in normal since then...

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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:08 pm 
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sybrfreq wrote:
More to the point...when I'm working on a computer I get up at least every hour. Otherwise I get ants in my pants.
Certain ants will bite under these circumstances and, in great numbers, might lower your magnesium levels.* So once again, your alleged mechanical issue is probably really due to chronic magnesium deficiency. And probably something evil in a vaccination you were given as a child.

PymbleSoftware wrote:
I think I am going to end up with a bit of traditional Chinese medicine anyway.
I recommend Crunchy Frog steeped in green tea, administered three times daily.And wrist braces, and one of those funky Kinesis keyboards. But if there's improvement, I'm sure it'll all be due to the Crunchy Frog.


* They might also lower your libido, cause you to shift into a higher tax bracket, and increase your chances of winning the lottery. Or not. All the nonsense I'm spouting is as likely to help cure any ailment as being tied to a chair and forced to watch all episodes of FLCL in a loop for 4 days.**

** If you do get tied to a chair and watch all episodes of FLCL in a loop for 4 days and afterwards feel like you can provide a rational, linear narrative of what it was all about, well... I want to party with you some time.


Attachments:
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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:27 pm 
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Mind you, FLCL is great.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:55 pm 
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I love tea. :D

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Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:26 am 
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I think I owe Regan an apology for threadjacking... Love FLCL, love the fact that [adult swim] dared to put it on US cable.Always glad to see them take a chance, like when they put Serial Experiments Lain on the schedule.

Anyway, here's hoping Regan finds a way to ease his symptoms. I've had my share of these troubles, solution for me was reworking my desk layout and easing up for a week or two.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:45 pm 
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smj wrote:
I think I owe Regan an apology for threadjacking... Love FLCL, love the fact that [adult swim] dared to put it on US cable.Always glad to see them take a chance, like when they put Serial Experiments Lain on the schedule.


No need, I hijack more threads than anyone, except maybe sky and Hamei. I will have to check out FLCL, wikipedia entry makes it sound interesting.

smj wrote:
Anyway, here's hoping Regan finds a way to ease his symptoms. I've had my share of these troubles, solution for me was reworking my desk layout and easing up for a week or two.


Rest and time away from computers are good solutions. ;)

R.

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