Well, Oracle's basically killed Solaris

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bhtooefr
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Well, Oracle's basically killed Solaris

Unread postby bhtooefr » Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:23 pm

http://opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=123709

Here's what I could see happening, although maybe I'm wrong. Solaris installations that can't pay for a support contract no longer will have security patches. They're going to get pwned ridiculously quickly.

Solaris will get a serious reputation hit due to that.

Now, if Solaris is insecure, the companies that actually can afford a support contract will run away, and go Linux (or go to IBM or HP, if they need Real SysV Unix(tm).)
brescia / Sun Blade 2500 / 2x 1.6 GHz UltraSPARC IIIi / "XVR-100" 32 MiB / 8 GiB RAM / 73 GB disk / OpenSolaris 132
sparcgap / Sun Ultra 1 / 200 MHz UltraSPARC / Creator3D FFB1 / 832 MiB RAM / 50 GB disk / Solaris 9
leydenjar / RDI PowerLite / 50 MHz microSPARC / cgthree / 640x480 LCD / 32 MiB RAM / 2x 525 MB disk / Solaris 2.5.1

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D-EJ915
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Re: Well, Oracle's basically killed Solaris

Unread postby D-EJ915 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:47 pm

Oracle's redhat clone is like that so no surprise they implemented the same shafting to Solaris
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Re: Well, Oracle's basically killed Solaris

Unread postby Hakimoto » Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:32 pm

Great, another one bites the dust. Let's see what happens with OpenSolaris. Some of the developers at SUN were rather outspoken and said that they will work on their product no matter what.

Well, let's face it: I have a laptop running OpenSol b123 and a desktop running OpenSol b129. I guess I'll leave it at that. The base is sound, and hey, blastwave is around, so apps are a coming.

Shame that these days the best of the best is just relegated to the dustbin like that.

bhtooefr
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Re: Well, Oracle's basically killed Solaris

Unread postby bhtooefr » Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:39 pm

And OpenSolaris can (and should?) be forked.

Might be a good idea to get OpenSolaris as far from Oracle as is possible - maybe a fork that for now tracks OpenSolaris, but moves to its own development model once OpenSolaris diverges from whatever the goals of that fork are?

(I'm running b132 on both my Blade 2500 and my netbook.)
brescia / Sun Blade 2500 / 2x 1.6 GHz UltraSPARC IIIi / "XVR-100" 32 MiB / 8 GiB RAM / 73 GB disk / OpenSolaris 132
sparcgap / Sun Ultra 1 / 200 MHz UltraSPARC / Creator3D FFB1 / 832 MiB RAM / 50 GB disk / Solaris 9
leydenjar / RDI PowerLite / 50 MHz microSPARC / cgthree / 640x480 LCD / 32 MiB RAM / 2x 525 MB disk / Solaris 2.5.1

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skywriter
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Re: Well, Oracle's basically killed Solaris

Unread postby skywriter » Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:22 am

so, this is not the death of solaris. well, maybe for hobbyists, but history has shown they don't count. oracle customers running solaris will enjoy years of life.


whatever the outcome, consider what life would be like if sun went to IBM, or a fire sale to the likes of Dell (as if they would be interested. but nothing came to mind).
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zmttoxics
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Re: Well, Oracle's basically killed Solaris

Unread postby zmttoxics » Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:48 am

+1 to skywriter.

RHEL has had this model for a while and look at it? There will always be a centos for the hobbyist (ie, OSOL).
Stuff.

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Re: Well, Oracle's basically killed Solaris

Unread postby emgaron » Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:09 am

zmttoxics wrote:RHEL has had this model for a while and look at it? There will always be a centos for the hobbyist (ie, OSOL).

While that may be true, as far as I understand the whole issue it still leaves hobbyist-owners of older Sun machines (Sparcs...) out in the cold, right? So far, I thought that Solaris 10 was the only viable "up-to-date" Solaris for those machines, as OpenSolaris does not support the older frame buffers - or did I get that wrong? :?:
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bhtooefr
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Re: Well, Oracle's basically killed Solaris

Unread postby bhtooefr » Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:23 am

To be fair, pretty much everything that Solaris 10 can comfortably run on can also take an XVR-100, and therefore can run OpenSolaris.

The stuff that can't take an XVR-100 is (for the most part) old enough that even Solaris 10 would be painful, let alone OpenSolaris.

And, IIRC, the only Sun workstation (as opposed to server) that doesn't have PCI (and therefore can't use the XVR-100,) yet is capable of running OpenSolaris is the Ultra 2.

IIRC, there is an open source driver for FFB and AFB (although AFB needs the microcode from the Solaris driver,) so support could theoretically be re-added for that, as well as PGX8/24/64 (seeing as efb is a port of Xorg's radeon driver to Solaris, atimisc and r128 could also be ported for PGX support.)
brescia / Sun Blade 2500 / 2x 1.6 GHz UltraSPARC IIIi / "XVR-100" 32 MiB / 8 GiB RAM / 73 GB disk / OpenSolaris 132
sparcgap / Sun Ultra 1 / 200 MHz UltraSPARC / Creator3D FFB1 / 832 MiB RAM / 50 GB disk / Solaris 9
leydenjar / RDI PowerLite / 50 MHz microSPARC / cgthree / 640x480 LCD / 32 MiB RAM / 2x 525 MB disk / Solaris 2.5.1

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Re: Well, Oracle's basically killed Solaris

Unread postby emgaron » Sat Feb 13, 2010 12:16 pm

bhtooefr wrote:To be fair, pretty much everything that Solaris 10 can comfortably run on can also take an XVR-100, and therefore can run OpenSolaris.

Hm... So I'll have to go and find an XVR-100 for my U60, it seems... The annoying things is: Most older systems come with just the cards that are not supported (Creator3D, PGX24/64 etc.). I've also seen several XVR-600/1000/1200 - but no XVR-100 so far. At the very least, it makes it more difficult with the older machines.

Sparc Linux isn't exactly the most active arch, either. OpenBSD might be an option, though - and both without flash, for better or worse. Ah well.

BTW: I just saw that this was also discussed on comp.unix.solaris:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.unix.solaris/browse_thread/thread/4f3582bbfb5256ec/68c388db580b1183?hl=en&lnk=ol&

bhtooefr wrote:IIRC, there is an open source driver for FFB and AFB (although AFB needs the microcode from the Solaris driver,) so support could theoretically be re-added for that, as well as PGX8/24/64 (seeing as efb is a port of Xorg's radeon driver to Solaris, atimisc and r128 could also be ported for PGX support.)

That would be cool. I also seem to remember reading about OpenBSD having some support for the cards left by the wayside by OpenSolaris, so there seems to be code available as well. We will see.
Hooked up: :Octane: [R12k/400, V6] :Indigo2IMP: [R10k/195, HI] :Indy: [R5k/180, XL24] :Indy: [R5k/150, -];
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In storage: :O2: [R10k/195] :O2: [R10k/150] :Indigo2IMP: [R4k4/250, SI]; DEC VX40;
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SAQ
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Re: Well, Oracle's basically killed Solaris

Unread postby SAQ » Sat Feb 13, 2010 3:55 pm

NetBSD still supports Sun back through Sun-2.

It would be nice if they had a cheaper "security only" option, but how many customers would that net them? As much as I would like to see Solaris be "on paper" substantially cheaper than any MS setup, the reality is that it won't change many minds. Solaris just didn't captivate people the way Linux did, although OpenSolaris still lives...

The back-alley not telling anyone is far more serious. If you make a decision be open about it and tell people. If I can't trust a company to be level with me why would I want to get in a long-term business relationship with them?
Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!

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Re: Well, Oracle's basically killed Solaris

Unread postby foetz » Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:35 pm

that's bad. solaris was really oldschool and solid.
although i've never been impressed much by sun hardware solaris is a good piece of tech
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Ryan Fox
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Re: Well, Oracle's basically killed Solaris

Unread postby Ryan Fox » Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:50 am


So no more free downloads, or patches...
Its pretty obvious what they're up to. Kudos to them for pissing off a lot of people.
Perhaps switching over to open-source software is the only way to get back at these greedy bastards >=)

Epic Fail Oracle

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Re: Well, Oracle's basically killed Solaris

Unread postby SAQ » Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:54 pm

Ryan Fox wrote:
So no more free downloads, or patches...
Its pretty obvious what they're up to. Kudos to them for pissing off a lot of people.
Perhaps switching over to open-source software is the only way to get back at these greedy bastards >=)

Epic Fail Oracle



What do you mean? Solaris is still free, they just suspended free access to security patches. To an extent yes, that does mean that Solaris is not free, but with some creative backporting of Linux/xBSD/GNU replacements you can still have a secure system (keep in mind that's what we're going to have to do with IRIX now), and OpenSolaris is still around (though with a murky future as far as official Oracle support goes).

I wonder how much additional customers the support contract for security updates policy will net them, but it might keep down the bandwidth used.

I think there's a way to update OpenSolaris. Not through official patchsets, but I think it's something more along the Linux line where there are new packages released with fixes. I don't run OSol, so perhaps a fulltime user could elaborate.
Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!

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bhtooefr
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Re: Well, Oracle's basically killed Solaris

Unread postby bhtooefr » Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:03 pm

OpenSolaris runs on biweekly dev releases with one week of testing, and full releases (approximately) every six months with 6-8 weeks of testing.

Although, security updates can take about 6 weeks to migrate to a dev release.
brescia / Sun Blade 2500 / 2x 1.6 GHz UltraSPARC IIIi / "XVR-100" 32 MiB / 8 GiB RAM / 73 GB disk / OpenSolaris 132
sparcgap / Sun Ultra 1 / 200 MHz UltraSPARC / Creator3D FFB1 / 832 MiB RAM / 50 GB disk / Solaris 9
leydenjar / RDI PowerLite / 50 MHz microSPARC / cgthree / 640x480 LCD / 32 MiB RAM / 2x 525 MB disk / Solaris 2.5.1

sbarton
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Re: Well, Oracle's basically killed Solaris

Unread postby sbarton » Sun Feb 14, 2010 7:05 pm

For me at least Solaris was already a dead platform. It will no doubt drift along in those industries that can't afford to change, but as an enterprise platform for my industry, it's a dead horse. I just switched my Sunblade 2K back to real Solaris 10 from SXCE. I keep the sunblade around now for the same reasons I keep the SS20, Octane, O2, HP C3000, 715/100, Next turbo color, etc, etc, etc. Because of nostalgia.

I haven't deployed a new Oracle database at my facility in 2 years (I'm an OCP DBA 1st but also SQLServer), every new project midsized and up and has been SQLServer 100%. Most of my buddies in the area report similar trends. Oracle is already half dead and just doesn't know it and they better get their shit together or they will wake up in the same boat that Sun did overnight.


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