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Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:00 am 
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coredog64 wrote:
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I do not "own" this setup, but it is what I use most of the time @ work, so it basically "owns" me:
...
Server: Fire T2000 (1Gz, 16GB, Solaris 10)


What's your impression of the T2000 so far? I'm trying to get my boss to consider one of these as a replacement for something we're currently running on part of an E10K (just HTTP/CGI, so lack of FP is not an issue).


Single thread performance sucks significantly, some of the code we run is not really that parallel this means that for the same code (mostly placement and routing) we see that the machine is about 25% the performance -or even less, we have seen slowdowns of up to 8 times when compared to an x8664!- than an opteron system. So unless you have a lot of processes, then a Niagara may not be the best approach..... It is useful for us since it has the large memory, once the process is large enough the Niagara catches with the opteron because they have less memory and have to start trashing like crazy at some point. We also got the machine as a gift from sun which was an added bonus.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:55 pm 
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Location: St. Louis, MO, USA
My workhorse firewall, still has all the original hardware without a single failure *knock on wood* in 13-14 years now I think:

Sparc Classic, 50mhz, 32mb ram, Quad HME SBus
Aug 17 02:02:23 unholy /bsd: mailto:deraadt@sparc.openbsd.org:/usr/src/sys/arch/sparc/compile/GENERIC
Aug 17 02:02:23 unholy /bsd: real mem = 33206272
Aug 17 02:02:23 unholy /bsd: avail mem = 25161728
Aug 17 02:02:23 unholy /bsd: using 200 buffers containing 1658880 bytes of memory
Aug 17 02:02:23 unholy /bsd: bootpath: /iommu@0,10000000/sbus@0,10001000/espdma@4,8400000/esp@4,8800000/sd@3,0
Aug 17 02:02:23 unholy /bsd: mainbus0 (root): SUNW,SPARCclassic
Aug 17 02:02:23 unholy /bsd: cpu0 at mainbus0: TMS390S10 @ 50 MHz, on-chip FPU
Aug 17 02:02:23 unholy /bsd: cpu0: physical 4K instruction (32 b/l), 2K data (16 b/l) cache enabled

My "other" workhorse firewall, handles the bigger connection/network:

Sun E250, Dual 400mhz US-II, 1.2GB ram, Sun QFE PCI

total memory = 1342177280
avail memory = 1213251584
using 8192 buffers containing 67108864 bytes of memory
bootpath: /pci@1f,4000/scsi@3,0/disk@0,0
mainbus0 (root): Sun (TM) Enterprise 250 (2 X UltraSPARC-II 400MHz)
cpu0 at mainbus0: SUNW,UltraSPARC-II @ 400 MHz, version 0 FPU
cpu0: physical 32K instruction (32 b/l), 16K data (32 b/l), 2048K external (64 b/l)


Both run OpenBSD (sparc, sparc64)

I also have a Sun Fire 280R, Dual 933mhz US-III+ Cu, 2GB ram, not powered on at the moment for specs from the OS, but runs Solaris 10.

And a Tadpole Sparcbook 3GX that runs Solaris 7 special RDI version.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:09 am 
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Hmmm...

SPARCStation 10 MP (2x 50MHz)
IPX
two 220Rs, one 1 x 450MHz, the other 2 x 450MHz
SPARCServer 1000 4 x 50MHz (not in use, draws too much power)
Ultra 5 333MHz
Ultra Enterprise 2 160MHz
Sun StorEdge A5200 fiber channel array with 22 x 18GB FC disks.

And, in the light of the fact that I still can't obtain any mirroring licenses for IRIX, I'll be loading up on even more DIRT CHEAP Sun servers from ebay:

- 420Rs
- 220Rs
- V100s
- Netra X1s.

These are all rack mountable servers, and all can be had for under $500 USD. I just recently saw a fully functioning 4 x 450MHz 420R for under $500 USD on ebay.

It's really too bad, we've got a bunch of Indys which would make great DNS, web or mail servers, but without mirroring, they're not much good in production.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:18 am 
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si wrote:
Both run OpenBSD (sparc, sparc64)
Talk about running exotic. I recommend to switch the sun4u system to Solaris 10 1/06; it is simply awesome in every respect.

They really weren't kidding when they advertised it as "the most advanced operating system on the planet".
Quote:
I also have a Sun Fire 280R, Dual 933mhz US-III+ Cu, 2GB ram, not powered on at the moment for specs from the OS, but runs Solaris 10.
I love 280Rs! They're phenomenal machines: affordable yet sufficiently powerful and scalable and expandable -- the 280R is really a diamond in the rough.

I have 280Rs still doing their job with horsepower to spare that I put in production four years ago -- they really are that scalable. Simply an awesome server.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:24 am 
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R-ten-K wrote:
Single thread performance sucks significantly, some of the code we run is not really that parallel this means that for the same code (mostly placement and routing) we see that the machine is about 25% the performance -or even less, we have seen slowdowns of up to 8 times when compared to an x8664!- than an opteron system. So unless you have a lot of processes, then a Niagara may not be the best approach..... It is useful for us since it has the large memory, once the process is large enough the Niagara catches with the opteron because they have less memory and have to start trashing like crazy at some point. We also got the machine as a gift from sun which was an added bonus.
T2000 is optimized for web serving and possibly databases; it excels at integer operations but FPU support is minimal.

So anything integer intensive and threaded will kick ass on a T2000.

On the other hand, if you're looking for raw CPU performance, Opteron is the way to go.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:41 am 
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unixmuseum wrote:
Here's what the inside of the SB1K looks like:
Those damn 1" spud brackets! I HATE those damn things because they enable Sun to jack up the price on the hard disks they sell with their new servers!

For example, the X2100 starts at $750, but if you want any disk, because of those spud brackets you're forced to buy from them @ almost $300 USD per 80GB drive! YOU'VE GOTTA BE KIDDING ME. What a ripoff!!!

Of course, no Sun disks - no spud brackets, so you can't be going around buying your own hard disks, since without the spud brackets you can't build them in. And of course, Sun won't sell you the spud brackets individually, even if you give them the exact part number.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:25 am 
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the plus side of the brackets from my point of view, is that unlike in the PC world, SUN doesn't change their brackets much. the SS line had a different bracket from what they have now, but I think since the first ultra workstation they've kept a single drive bracket design... maybe dell and the others should just adopt the sun one as standard. that's something I would like to see happen. one standard 1" hdd bracket used with all hdd or at least all SCSI or 80pin SCSI drives. (every array sharing a bracket that's also shared with the desktops that's also shared with the big iron)

anyway... that's one of my grudges. the mess that is bracket interperability.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:38 am 
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Annatar wrote:
Of course, no Sun disks - no spud brackets, so you can't be going around buying your own hard disks, since without the spud brackets you can't build them in. And of course, Sun won't sell you the spud brackets individually, even if you give them the exact part number.


I guess that might be a problem for a business but a hobbyist can easily get them on eBay (in lots of 10 for $10; a buck each). They're much cheaper than SGI drive sleds of any description.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:55 am 
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nekonoko wrote:
[I guess that might be a problem for a business but a hobbyist can easily get them on eBay (in lots of 10 for $10; a buck each). They're much cheaper than SGI drive sleds of any description.
Only if you're in the US!

If you're outside of US, you're basically screwed. Most of the ebay sellers won't ship outside of US, and since they're still in stone age when it comes to electronic banking, they'll freak out when you offer to pay via a wire transfer.

I happen to have bought 5 of those brackets one time from a firm that advertized itself as being out of London, UK, but turned out to be some dealer in Texas! Boy did I have to dance around with them to get those brackets! It's not an experience I'd care to repeat.

Anyway, it's not just hard for a hobbyst; I'm starting my own firm and as you can imagine, while I don't spare any expense for the equipment I need, that doesn't mean I shouldn't be cost-conscious about stupid stuff like disks!


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Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:57 am 
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Annatar wrote:
si wrote:
Both run OpenBSD (sparc, sparc64)
Talk about running exotic. I recommend to switch the sun4u system to Solaris 10 1/06; it is simply awesome in every respect.


Possibly true, but unfortunately Solaris 10 is still shite when it comes to managing/filtering network traffic. If it could do half of the things that OpenBSD can do as a traffic filter I might consider it.

OpenBSD's pf is the definitely the most advanced UNIX firewall system I've ever used.


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Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:43 am 
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I agree with Annatar about wire transfers. In that respect you guys in the US are simply out of touch with the times. We transfer money around Europe all the time at the touch of a button. It's called IBAN and SWIFT. :P

No, seriously, getting some gear over here can be difficult...

Also: @ coredog64, I finally got my SCA extension cable to work today and am now running the SS20 thus:

Dual 180 Ross, QFE on the top farthest SBUS slot, all other SBUS ports empty, so the air can flow freely, the 73 gig Maxtor in the bottom SCA slot, the fifty gig Barracuda across where the CDROM goes and the little fan that sits between augmented by a second, larger fan, pushing air across the 10k drive. Will let you know if it runs ok or overheats and burns my house down. :)

Otherwise it's time to celebrate, 120 gigs of SCSI storage, yeah!

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Unread postPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:46 pm 
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Location: Boston, MA
Hakimoto wrote:
I agree with Annatar about wire transfers. In that respect you guys in the US are simply out of touch with the times. We transfer money around Europe all the time at the touch of a button. It's called IBAN and SWIFT. :P


Funny, I think here most people here think wire transfers are archaic. I gather there's something new? Fees have prevented this from being widely used here - my bank just discounted to $10 from $35 to send money, and some banks even have fees to receive. And you generally need to go to a bank to send. Conceivably if both parties have bad banks, the transaction costs could be $70...

There's a lot of banking differences on both sides of the pond, probably both by culture and law. I saw a lot of "smart" cards in Europe - almost none here, but the banks are starting to push them to put the liability back on the consumer. Credit cards are the standard here, but the banks are legally liable for all fraud/stolen cards - well, technically you're liable for the first $50, but in practice no bank will charge you that because they'll lose far more once you tell them you're taking your business somewhere else....


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Unread postPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 2:30 pm 
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Posts: 560
Location: Southern PA
I'm not going to try to hit every Sun I have in storage, I'm just going to hit some highlights.
(*updated*)
In a data center:
A V100 colocated

In my basement computer room:
E250, 2x300, 4x18, 2x181, gige, Solaris Express.
SS20 2x61, being used as a DNS server
U5, 333mhz, 512megs, scsi conversion, SSH gateway
T1, replacement for the SS20 when I find the time.
U80 4x450, 4 gigs ram, 9 gig HD, workbench workstation

Other:
3/80
3/160 (plus I have the cards to upgrade it to a 3/260, and a few spares)
4/300 boardset
A IPC with a 170mhz SS5 compatible drop in motherboard and CG6 graphics
SS20 2x71mhz.
2xSS2 with assorted upgrades that I haven't totally cataloged. I think one might have a memory upgrade card. One has a Weitek CPU upgrade.
Ultra 30
2x SunRay1s, but I still need stands and USB keyboards for them.

I'd like to someday get a VME FDDI card and another VME chassis

I have more machines, but I'm not stressing myself over remembering everything that has been in storage long term.


Last edited by jdboyd on Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:21 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:48 pm 
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@ dc_v01: see, that's why we think your stateside wires are archaic. :P cos we don't pay for ours anymore. recent EU law made all electronic transfers under 12500 eur to be chargeable only like normal domestic transfers. and since we don't really pay per transfer anymore but like a fixed amount for any given account per year. :) it's getting money transfers done between europe and america that's so cumbersome. and well, you guys don't cash our cheques, whilst we cash yours. it's all very convoluted. :lol:

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Unread postPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:35 am 
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I have an Ultra 10 but right now, it just sits there, taunting me, until the 13w3 adapter arrives for it.


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