Taking apart a PowerBook G4 12 inch - insane design

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Re: Taking apart a PowerBook G4 12 inch - insane design

Unread postby Shiunbird » Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:28 am

OMG, that's just too many screws. Did you get a working machine in the end?

A friend of mine is coming back from New York with a display signal cable for me, so I will replace it in a few weeks and be more careful this time. =)
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Re: Taking apart a PowerBook G4 12 inch - insane design

Unread postby scottE » Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:43 pm

This was the machine that broke me of ever wanting to deal with laptops again. I swapped the screen out for a working one, and then I was done with laptop service forever. I've also done a 3GS iPhone battery swap (before device recycling was available in our area).

Never again. These are just challenges for other people.

I'm really now at the point where I only want to poke around old video game consoles.
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Re: Taking apart a PowerBook G4 12 inch - insane design

Unread postby guardian452 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:32 pm

For shits and giggles I looked up the procedure to replace the keyboard on my 2014 mbp... and it scared the shit out of me. Leave no component assembled, and then about 50 (like 46??) rivets need to be popped out that hold KB to case, then tap threads in the 50 holes and hopefully your cheesy replacement keyboard includes the ~50 screws.

The alternative is to replace the entire case which is several hundred dollars.

Knock on wood, I've never killed a keyboard (at least not by accident :twisted: ) Obviously, the alternative is to have internet reviewers/bloggers pound like a gorilla on the machine and then complain about keyboard flex if it moves more than 6 microns.

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Re: Taking apart a PowerBook G4 12 inch - insane design

Unread postby scottE » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:55 pm

guardian452 wrote:Knock on wood, I've never killed a keyboard (at least not by accident :twisted: ) Obviously, the alternative is to have internet reviewers/bloggers pound like a gorilla on the machine and then complain about keyboard flex if it moves more than 6 microns.


I may have been really angry once. Bent the keyboard a bit. Maybe the top of the case. (Still worked perfectly, though). Good machines.

No, it appears to take a tumbler of water to kill the keyboard on a live Macbook. That's how I lost mamoru_oshii.

It appears the keyboard can fail. And the battery can fail, and the stupid thing still basically works (I was on the 2010-era machine's second battery), but I just didn't want to deal with it any more. I recycled it and bought a new one.
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Re: Taking apart a PowerBook G4 12 inch - insane design

Unread postby Raion-Fox » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:27 pm

I have to say I like the name Mamoru Oshii being mentioned. Just not attached to Apples.
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Re: Taking apart a PowerBook G4 12 inch - insane design

Unread postby scottE » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:39 pm

Raion-Fox wrote:I have to say I like the name Mamoru Oshii being mentioned. Just not attached to Apples.


No issue for me. I carried that laptop for almost 5 years. Did a lot of art with it.
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Re: Taking apart a PowerBook G4 12 inch - insane design

Unread postby guardian452 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:37 pm

scottE wrote:
guardian452 wrote:Knock on wood, I've never killed a keyboard (at least not by accident :twisted: ) Obviously, the alternative is to have internet reviewers/bloggers pound like a gorilla on the machine and then complain about keyboard flex if it moves more than 6 microns.


I may have been really angry once. Bent the keyboard a bit. Maybe the top of the case. (Still worked perfectly, though). Good machines.

No, it appears to take a tumbler of water to kill the keyboard on a live Macbook. That's how I lost mamoru_oshii.

It appears the keyboard can fail. And the battery can fail, and the stupid thing still basically works (I was on the 2010-era machine's second battery), but I just didn't want to deal with it any more. I recycled it and bought a new one.


Yeah I don't know of anybody actually killing a keyboard on one of those things, short of pouring all sorts of liquid in there, or metal shavings. They are extremely tough and I'm sure the way they are mounted makes it even more reliable because it greatly reduces flex.

But, holy crap :shock:

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Re: Taking apart a PowerBook G4 12 inch - insane design

Unread postby scottE » Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:39 pm

Wow. I kind of want to hear about the metal shavings.
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Re: Taking apart a PowerBook G4 12 inch - insane design

Unread postby Raion-Fox » Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:11 pm

scottE wrote:No issue for me. I carried that laptop for almost 5 years. Did a lot of art with it.


Oh, Apples are good for arts, especially historically. Today, however, I'd say Windows is on level ground, at least in terms of applications.

I had a G4 1.5GHz myself in the 15" flavour. It was a decent machine for when I used it but those power cords were retardedly delicate. Don't know what Jobs was smoking when he said okay. Macbooks have one discrete advantage in the form of magsafe but I saw a similar system on a new laptop recently, guess the patent is expiring soon.
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Re: Taking apart a PowerBook G4 12 inch - insane design

Unread postby scottE » Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:46 pm

Raion-Fox wrote:Oh, Apples are good for arts, especially historically. Today, however, I'd say Windows is on level ground, at least in terms of applications.


Maybe! But then I'd probably have to run Windows 10, and that's just … not happening. I'd sooner switch to ink, oils, and gouache for good (but I fantasize about doing that anyway); any analog media is better than Windows. If Apple and everything it made vanished, I might become more dedicated to the vintage stuff, maybe finally get around to looking into that Amiga stuff I've heard about. I run Linux, too, as VMs on Tully Monster, but it's not really a productivity OS for me (beyond making sure my business site has an excellent backup which allows me to sandbox design changes in a safe manner). Hate to make it sound like my interest in computer art is dependent upon the type of computer, but, then again, why wouldn't it be.

Plus I just like Apple's stuff. I get pretty impatient of messing with PCs (and crabby), but just a bit less so with Apple (a bit). Company's always treated me well, too, even though I have absolutely trashed their hardware by being a klutz. (RIP harryhausen and mamoru_oshii; good systems which would still be useful today if I hadn't been careless with water in the latter case, and a four foot drop onto asphalt in the former.)

Actually what I find amazing is how long the Cintiq has lasted, in spite of near-daily use. Tully Monster is its third computer. I wonder if I can get a job as a tester for Wacom.
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Re: Taking apart a PowerBook G4 12 inch - insane design

Unread postby guardian452 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:30 pm

I never had an issue with metal shavings inside the machine, but the magnetic power port will pick up all sorts of junk on a regular basis and keep the machine from charging until said particles have been extracted with tweezers.

Of course I have always been smart enough to keep non-toughbook machines well away from such flying particles. But the magsafe picks up metal stuff if you just set it down on a dirty table.

However, it has saved many machines many times for me so overall a net win. :)

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Re: Taking apart a PowerBook G4 12 inch - insane design

Unread postby Raion-Fox » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:11 pm

Metal shavings? Are you guys in a machine shop or something?

I understand the Windows 10 apprehension, I feel the same way about post-Snow Leopard OS X! I'm glad you have positive experiences with Apple.

I usually park my computer in a docking station and only charge it when not in use so I never have had a particular use for it but I can tell it's a smart idea. Kinda like how Xbox did the inline release trick for their controllers, a modern CD based console would not take well to being yanked out. An N64, man those things are tanks but the Gamecube, Wii and Wii U are glass cannons. You have to be super careful with those.

Also, my PB G4 was actually a decent machine, as was my MDD PowerMac. I ran Linux and OS X on both and had no real issues but going back to them would be HELL as the RAM and I/O bottlenecks would make me want to commit seppuku.
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Re: Taking apart a PowerBook G4 12 inch - insane design

Unread postby guardian452 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:05 pm

Raion-Fox wrote:Metal shavings? Are you guys in a machine shop or something?

Yes...

Raion-Fox wrote:I understand the Windows 10 apprehension, I feel the same way about post-Snow Leopard OS X! I'm glad you have positive experiences with Apple.
I update OSX the same way I update ios/android or some other appliance. It just works. I've never had a problem with windows 10, either, except for the inability to turn off automatic updates, which have kicked off a reboot at *really* inconvenient times before. Like when datalogging a long process or controlling a cnc machine. So in that sense, it's doing it's job as designed, just a really shitty design.

Or pay MS $100 or whatever it is to upgrade to "pro" windows which allows updates to be deferred :roll:


Raion-Fox wrote:I usually park my computer in a docking station and only charge it when not in use so I never have had a particular use for it but I can tell it's a smart idea. Kinda like how Xbox did the inline release trick for their controllers, a modern CD based console would not take well to being yanked out. An N64, man those things are tanks but the Gamecube, Wii and Wii U are glass cannons. You have to be super careful with those.

But Wii and Wii U have wireless controllers. I play my wii U several hours every week (splatoon) and it still looks brand new, tho the controller is starting to show some wear after about two years. It's a game console and sits in an AV cabinet. :?:


I would love to see a magnetic inductive pad for macbook like the apple watch. USB-C is a regression, especially USB-C with no thunderbolt a la 12" macbook.

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Re: Taking apart a PowerBook G4 12 inch - insane design

Unread postby Trippynet » Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:39 am

guardian452 wrote:I've never had a problem with windows 10...

...

the inability to turn off automatic updates, which have kicked off a reboot at *really* inconvenient times before. Like when datalogging a long process or controlling a cnc machine. So in that sense, it's doing it's job as designed, just a really shitty design.


So you have had an issue - and an annoying one at that. Funnily enough, the forced updates and inconvenient reboots are one of my primary reasons for not using Windows 10. I need my PC to be reliable/dependable and for me to feel in control of it. With Windows 10, MS controls my PC, and that's simply not acceptable to me. Maybe if MS address this at some point then my opinion might change, but as it currently stands, Windows 10 cannot be relied on to be working and available when I need it to be, whereas with Windows 7, it only reboots when I allow it to do so.
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Re: Taking apart a PowerBook G4 12 inch - insane design

Unread postby Shiunbird » Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:01 am

Trippynet wrote:So you have had an issue - and an annoying one at that. Funnily enough, the forced updates and inconvenient reboots are one of my primary reasons for not using Windows 10.


I hooked up my test Windows 10 machine as a Civ5 pitboss multiplayer server, and every few days we couldn't login and I would find that the machine rebooted.

Then I went and disabled the automatic reboots via Group Policy, and it would still reboot.

I had to disable Windows Update service completely and do a bit of registry sorcery (just for peace of mind, probably disabling Windows Update service would have sufficed). It hasn't rebooted in two months.

However, you get no background download of updates, and that kinda sucks.
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