What Apple hardware do we have?

Apple hardware/software and related topics.
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shutitalldown
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Re: What Apple hardware do we have?

Unread postby shutitalldown » Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:25 am

MDD G4. And I cannot get more than 50Mbyte/sec from the PCIX :roll: :roll: :roll:
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OlaHughson
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Re: What Apple hardware do we have?

Unread postby OlaHughson » Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:48 am

At this moment:
A Macintosh SE, which I brought from Sweden on a ferry;
A Umax Apus 2160, from a local hackerspace;
A Power Maicntosh G3 Blue&White which i purchased for whooping 30€
A Power Mac G5 DP 2.0GHz PCI-X, which i got for, like... 60 euro? (when exchanged from złoty)
A PowerBook G4 1,67GHz, for a similar or lower amount.
A single Apple Extended Keyboard II which lacks some keycaps [ and it's totally my fault*; i have either all or most of them, but can't attach them to it ]
A Logitech TrackMan Marble, the ADB trackball, which i use with all ADB-equipped macs (I don't have a mouse and don't want to anymore; ball mouse S U C K).


*it slipped from my hands when travelling on the subway
(-)Ola Hughson
Current hardware inventory: http://olatheskunk.pl/computers/

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guardian452
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Re: What Apple hardware do we have?

Unread postby guardian452 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:30 am

jwhat wrote:Trivial aside I did top config price check on new iMac Pro and it came to nearly AUD $20,000 !!!

Ouch... maybe we are not dedicated enough, that is a hell of an expensive machine.
Waiting to see how new Mac Pro pans out price/performance wise.

Cheers,

jwhat.

New mac pro probably be about the same price as the old mac pro (starting at $3000 USD), maybe a bit more. Maybe they start at $2500 but nobody in their right mind would buy that one (like the 1.4 ghz mini).

The imac pro is a different product. It is not for you. Also hard to think of a use case where a super high end config is necessary. Most are going to max out one component. Also the regular imac is already a hell of a machine, I'm drawing a blank thinking of things that it can't be used for. :roll:

A modernized cheese grater is what everybody wants, but the whole concept of a mac pro tower is the antithesis of everything apple. They want the computer and the technology to disappear so having a box just for a computer is a strange paradox to them. I'm still surprised they're making a new one especially with the imac pro existing.

There's a lot of cost savings to be had if they drop the display and Vega. I also doubt they'll do a dual socket machine, or give us many PCI slots. Maybe it will start with an i5, 16gb ram, 256gb disk, and a crappy radeon gpu. You wanted one that could be upgraded, right? And then the $2,500 with an i5 instead of a xeon will max at 64 gb ram (complete with solder pads on the logic board for missing ram slots) but the $3,500 with a xeon can go up to 256 gb ram... Apple is very very good at playing these games.

I wonder if we'll get a real M.2 slot. :lol:

June is going to be interesting... At least, I would be shocked if it wasn't announced at WWDC, to be available by the end of the year.

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Re: What Apple hardware do we have?

Unread postby jwhat » Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:22 pm

Hi Guardian452,

Yes good point about starting price and expandability being key.

Right now I have Areca 1883 RAID card (with external disks) and Nvidia Titan X in my classic Mac Pro.
As starting config I would need ability to support 2 CPUs, and be able to swap Areca and Nvidia PCIe boards into any new Mac Pro.
The Areca card is easy as it has PCIe 3 support so should compatible with any new machine, but to put in Nvidia Titan X I had to open up power supply to get sufficient power by taking feed straight from 12v rails. Hope any new Mac Pro has way to get PCIe auxiliary power needed for high end graphics boards.

Cheers,

jwhat
jwhat - ask questions, provide answers

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guardian452
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Re: What Apple hardware do we have?

Unread postby guardian452 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:44 am

I don't think they will do dual socket, since they are already using chips with 18 cores and hyperthreading in the imac pro.

I am sure there will be plenty of headroom for big honkin graphics cards since that's what they screwed up on the trashcan.

But I'm just a schmo with an opinion and I'm not buying one anyways.

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Irinikus
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Re: What Apple hardware do we have?

Unread postby Irinikus » Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:02 am

guardian452 wrote:But I'm just a schmo with an opinion and I'm not buying one anyways.


I don't mean this in a bad way (you're a good dude and I enjoy arguing with you), but what system would please you, as I've never heard you say anything positive about any system?

The same arguments seem to occur here on a daily basis!

I really don't know what all of you are so concerned about CPU performance for, I'm posting from my Trashcan right now and I can tell you that the 3.6GHz Quad-Core CPU in my system has plenty of performance (no perceivable lag at all), and seeing that most of you don't even play games I really can't see the relevance of your argument.

At the moment most high end systems have plenty of CPU performance, the CPU really isn't the bottle neck and hasn't been for years.

I do agree that the new Mac Pro must improve as far as it's graphics capability is concerned (in the event that you might want to bootcamp it to use it as a gaming machine), even though the humble D300's in my current Mac Pro are more than adequate for my everyday needs. (no lag at all). [ At the moment I have, the games which I care to play regularly: Diablo III, Starcraft II and The Lord of the Rings online installed on my system and thy all run at max settings on the D300's.]

On the odd occasion that I might want to play a game that needs graphical performance, I fire up my gaming PC, and this doesn't happen often though, as I've really grown to hate PC.

I am going to buy the new Mac Pro regardless sometime in 2019.(later rather than sooner, as I currently have no need to upgrade to a newer machine, as this would just be supporting consumerism, a concept which I hate with a passion.)
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guardian452
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Re: What Apple hardware do we have?

Unread postby guardian452 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:43 pm

Irinikus wrote:
guardian452 wrote:But I'm just a schmo with an opinion and I'm not buying one anyways.


I don't mean this in a bad way (you're a good dude and I enjoy arguing with you), but what system would please you, as I've never heard you say anything positive about any system?


I had the original 2006 mac pro which I bought second hand when it was about 3 years old, paid about $1500 for it. I sold it in spring of 2017 for coffee money when it really just didn't meet my needs anymore and even just opening Mail.app was a slog. Then I bought a Dell Precision tower 3620 at the end of the year after trying about a half dozen different laptops and none of them really met my needs. It's a fantastic system with a quad core Xeon (E3-1225 v6, the cheapest CPU option that supported w10ws), 16 GB ECC ram, 512gb SSD, and Windows 10 Workstation, for around $1600 IIRC. I upgraded it to 48GB and added a quadro P2000 graphics card right off the bat (as part of the original config I paid an extra $9 for the big-boy power supply unit so it could easily support a P4000/1070 or higher). I have 2 P2415Q monitors on a cheap but sturdy arm and a Razer KB and mouse.

It pleases me immensely and I'm planning on it meeting my needs for the next decade or so. For the second half of my Mac's life I had to hack OSX and hack the bootloader and hack this and hack that and I still had nothing up to date by the time I got rid of it. The chassis itself is a bit flimsy, typical Dell PC build quality it is far removed from the massive Apple monolith, but it just sits under my desk and does it's job completely silently. The mac always had a dull fan roar in the background. I don't sit with all cores pegged at 100% indefinitely (e.g. daily HD video rendering etc) but I do run simulations that take a few minutes to run and I never hear anything. When I do have to move it I'll greatly appreciate a ~20 pound box over a 50 pound one.

Also the Dell SMB rep gave me a much much MUCH better purchasing experience than I've ever had from any Apple store.

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Irinikus
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Re: What Apple hardware do we have?

Unread postby Irinikus » Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:20 pm

It sounds like you have a really nice system there, its a similar spec to my Mac Pro and it was about half the price.

I do understand and respect your argument when it comes to the fact that you end up by paying more than you need to when it comes to the hardware spec side of things when you buy an apple product. There is no need for this, its pure commercialism, however I do like some of their products enough to buy them though.

The thing that does it for me with Apple though is the operating system, it's far superior to windows in my opinion. I understand that the Pros concerning the operating system might not be enough of a benefit for most to be willing to spend the extra money required to purchase one of these systems.

The Mac Pro has been the least troublesome system that I've owned, it's also compact (A big plus factor in my opinion), silent and very energy efficient.(It's been a good experience, probably my best computer experience so far.) I do respect the fact that we all have different requirements and expectations from systems though.

The thing that irritates me in general is the fact that most people seem to fall hook line and sinker for the consumer based market that we are all subject to these days. (It's completely unsustainable) You should only look at replacing a system when the one that you're using can no longer fulfil the purpose that you have for it.

Most people seem continuously moan about the fact that systems aren't being updated regularly enough, even tough they're not nearly pushing their systems to their full potential by the time they want to go out and buy new ones.(People have been programmed by marketing hype and they're absolutely unaware of it.)

I also agree with you that the experience that you get from Apple Stores is poor in general. The shop assistants don't know the technical details of the products that they're trying to sell, this irritates me to the max.

Buy the way, I think that apple keyboards and mice suck balls, so I will soon also be getting a Razer keyboard and mouse to use with my Mac Pro.
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Re: What Apple hardware do we have?

Unread postby guardian452 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:59 pm

Irinikus wrote:Buy the way, I think that apple keyboards and mice suck balls, so I will soon also be getting a Razer keyboard and mouse to use with my Mac Pro.

I like them and I love their products but they consistently shoot themselves in the foot with bad driver software and even worse reliability. I say this typing on my Razer Stealth laptop #3 in two years and if it died tomorrow I would be on Razer Stealth #4, although I think I finally got a "good one" this time... I cannot in good faith recommend them, just too many issues that you have to put up with unless you really like them (I do).

(I'm also waiting for the nommo pro speakers to be released).

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Re: What Apple hardware do we have?

Unread postby roberttx » Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:59 pm

SWMBO has a late 2011 27" imac, running Sierra, in the living room and a mid 2006 imac running Snow Leopard (or maybe something later, I forget), in the kitchen, for looking up recipes. I maxed out the RAM on both of them (the real max, not the official max).

My Apple stuff is older - several flavors of Apple II, a few compact macs, a couple Mac II somethings (I think) and a couple of early all in ones. Plus assorted peripherals and I think there may be an early Powerbook or two and a box of various ADB keyboards, somewhere - I'd have to look.

One of my Apple IIes is a bit interesting - it's part of an early computerized spirometer. I was going to look at ebaying it, because I need the space, but the hernia has put that on hold. There's a thread about it, with photos, here: http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?53994-So-this-big-metal-box-followed-me-home&highlight=spirometer

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guardian452
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Re: What Apple hardware do we have?

Unread postby guardian452 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:29 pm

guardian452 wrote:June is going to be interesting... At least, I would be shocked if it wasn't announced at WWDC, to be available by the end of the year.


Just confirmed for 2019. https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/05/apple ... workflows/

Glad I bought my Dell more and more :) The hardware isn't as slick, but it's definitely more powerful and I'll take W10WS over MacOS any day of the week.

Irinikus wrote:The thing that does it for me with Apple though is the operating system, it's far superior to windows in my opinion. I understand that the Pros concerning the operating system might not be enough of a benefit for most to be willing to spend the extra money required to purchase one of these systems.
I strongly disagree... although that may be my use-case. The programs I use for work are developed first for Windows, and Mac/Linux support is an afterthought where it exists at all. Solidworks is not available for Mac, for example, and it runs like a three legged dog virtualized, although that is probably more of a limitation of the Mac hardware than virtualization itself.

Support is also much better but that is a Dell vs. Apple thing, not Win vs. Mac thing. The operating system just stays out of the way and lets me do my thing much better than MacOS ever could. I guess I could say the same thing compared to W10 home as well (with it's constant annoying updates). In fact, the only reason I upgraded to the Xeon was so I could be eligible for W10WS, otherwise I would have been satisfied with the cheapest option i5.

My complaints about MacOS center around their outdated windowing system. Things like Expose, Mission Control, Launchpad, Fullscreen, etc, all seem like really bad hacks to "spruce up" an outdated system. I know there are 3rd party hacks to add snapping windows or other features to the system but they never seemed to work well.

Cost is not a concern for me as my employer reimburses me for work-related expenses (within reason of course).

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Re: What Apple hardware do we have?

Unread postby Irinikus » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:10 pm

I'm unfortunately comparing OSX to one of the standard Windows 10 releases, running on an i7 machine and I must say that the constant annoying updates really get to me, not to mention the fact that you have to have antivirus software running on the system.

I agree with you, in that it's about time they give Mac OS a proper refresh. (But one that's relevant though, not bloatware!)

Considering the fact that you use your machine for work purposes, and make use of software that was developed for windows, I completely understand your choice. (It makes perfect sense.)

My Mac is used purely as a media machine. (In this role, it's perfectly suitable.)

Who knows, the next generation Mac Pro might not be an intel machine, judging by the news circulating, indicating that they may be moving away from intel. (However, the migration from intel may take some time though, and therefor may be beyond the scope of the next Mac Pro.)
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Re: What Apple hardware do we have?

Unread postby guardian452 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:09 am

Irinikus wrote:you have to have antivirus software running on the system.
I find the built in "Windows Defender" less of a nuisance than gatekeeper, etc. Honestly I had to check to remember what it was called and also that it was turned on and working before typing this. Before Defender I never used an AV on Windows, and it bit me exactly once (I deserved it, too).

Irinikus wrote:I agree with you, in that it's about time they give Mac OS a proper refresh. (But one that's relevant though, not bloatware!)
I think Apple didn't go far enough with the touchbar. Should have left the fn keys as they were, and added an additional screen to replace the system dock and notification center and some other grafted-on stuff like that. But my ideas are never popular here.*

Irinikus wrote:Considering the fact that you use your machine for work purposes
We are talking about the Mac Pro, right? As in Professional, as in: used for business purposes, purchased by a corporation, managed by IT, used 40 hours/week, will cost $$$/hr if inop, etc. Apple's idea of "professional" user seems to be narrowing to within the pictures and sound industry. :?

Irinikus wrote:My Mac is used purely as a media machine. (In this role, it's perfectly suitable.)
Right, so not a professional environment. Much better would be to use a smart TV, tablet, console, etc..

Irinikus wrote:Who knows, the next generation Mac Pro might not be an intel machine, judging by the news circulating, indicating that they may be moving away from intel. (However, the migration from intel may take some time though, and therefor may be beyond the scope of the next Mac Pro.)
New Intel Mac Pro coming in 2019, ARM Macs coming in 2020, got to keep the upgrade cycle going somehow. In fairness, Apple supported PPC macs for a few years after the Intel switch, so I'm sure they will do the same here.

*I also thought they should have dumped the headphone jack on the 12" macbook and have 2 USB-C ports instead, one on each side. I haven't used the headphone jack since ~2011 but still some stragglers I guess. If I do use wired headphones, they connect directly to a focusrite interface while recording so there is no monitor latency.

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Re: What Apple hardware do we have?

Unread postby Irinikus » Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:50 am

guardian452 wrote:I find the built in "Windows Defender" less of a nuisance than gatekeeper, etc. Honestly I had to check to remember what it was called and also that it was turned on and working before typing this. Before Defender I never used an AV on Windows, and it bit me exactly once (I deserved it, too).

At the moment I too use Windows Defender on my PC, since the last feature update to Windows 10. Since that feature update however, the system has developed a bug though, in that sometimes when Windows boots, the screen remains black. (I get graphics in the BIOS and as windows loads, but as it completes it's loading process, the screen goes black and remains that way.) I have overcome this problem by unplugging the monitor from the graphics card and then plugging it back in. (Very irritating though.) [My Mac hasn't given me the slightest issue.]

The PC is in my Cape Town home, and I don't use it often, so I haven't had time to properly troubleshoot this problem yet, but it does seem to be a common windows bug which has occurred after the last feature update.

guardian452 wrote:We are talking about the Mac Pro, right? As in Professional, as in: used for business purposes, purchased by a corporation, managed by IT, used 40 hours/week, will cost $$$/hr if inop, etc. Apple's idea of "professional" user seems to be narrowing to within the pictures and sound industry. :?

I don't think that there are many industry grade 3D programs available for Mac, so using one for this purpose wouldn't make any sense.

Let's face it, Apple never produced "workstations", so to compare a Mac Pro to a fully fledged workstation with terabytes of RAM and many multi-core Xeon processors is a little bit unfair. Maybe they should change the name from the "Pro" series to the "Performance" series so that there's no misunderstanding as to the target market for these machines. (definitely not industry). Their niche is to make small, pretty machines for people who care to buy them, and this model seems to work for them.

guardian452 wrote: Right, so not a professional environment. Much better would be to use a smart TV, tablet, console, etc..

For playing the odd game and surfing the web, I prefer to sit down at a desk, in-front of a dedicated computer.

guardian452 wrote:New Intel Mac Pro coming in 2019, ARM Macs coming in 2020, got to keep the upgrade cycle going somehow. In fairness, Apple supported PPC macs for a few years after the Intel switch, so I'm sure they will do the same here.

I will have to do my research in the coming months then, as I won't waste my time on an intel machine in 2019, if they're only going to migrate to something else in 2020!(I'm not in desperate need of a new machine.)

guardian452 wrote:*I also thought they should have dumped the headphone jack on the 12" macbook and have 2 USB-C ports instead, one on each side. I haven't used the headphone jack since ~2011 but still some stragglers I guess. If I do use wired headphones, they connect directly to a focusrite interface while recording so there is no monitor latency.

Me being the audiophile that I am, I will always opt for cables over a wi-fi or bluetooth connection (In hi-fi terms, cables definitely make a difference.)

You can get a headphone output from a USB-C port by using a dongle, so it would make sense for them to drop the headphone jack in place of an extra USB-C port, as it's more versatile.(My only concern here would be as to whether this would degrade the audio quality for those who might want to make use of high quality headphones with such a machine?)

That being said, I personally don't use a computer as a source component for my hi-fi and I don't tend to make use of headphones at all as I don't like the way that they in which they tend project the sound stage into the space between your ears. Headphones (not even the best of them) are nearly as accurate as high end speakers are, even at low volume.

When I eventually retire this Mac Pro into my lounge (to serve the purpose of being a media centre) I plan on connecting up a pair of Devialet Phantoms. These do connect via wi-fi, but I accept that this system will not take the place of my hi-fi and will purely be used to make a noise.
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Re: What Apple hardware do we have?

Unread postby Shiunbird » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:44 am

I've got a:

- Intel Core 2 Duo iMac 17-inch with crappy GMA 950 graphics. It's my recording computer at the garage I have with my friends. A literal GarageBand.
- Mac Pro 1,1, currently with my friend for Logic 9 work.
- My machine for serious work, the G5 Quad.
- A mid-2011 Mac Mini with AMD graphics. Internet and Civ V.
- A late-2005 PowerBook G4 15 inch, with SSD RAID 0. I play Civ IV, RCT3, write long things and do slow tasks on it.
- 2 MDDs, a dual 867 stock and a pumped-up dual 1.25: my OS 9 machine.
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