Strike up one more for OSX getting a new filesystem

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guardian452
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Strike up one more for OSX getting a new filesystem

Unread postby guardian452 » Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:33 am

<rant> :evil: The disk with my aperture library has slowly been eating itself into oblivion. Two days ago aperture refused to open the library, and after attempting all else (including chmod -R 777 the .aplibrary, as the first errors were permissions-related) I decided a verify/repair of the disk, and disk utility has decided it's so bad the volume won't mount. bold red text, showing nasty error messages scrolls up the console when I try. To the effect of: your disk has gone tits-up... hope you have good backups...nyuk-nyuk-nyuk. The kick in the pants is it has been slowly corrupting data for months (which explains a lot of things, like "how on earth can the new itunes possibly be THIS buggy" as my itunes music was also on that disk) You might say it's my own fault for using aperture with it's über-fragile library structure in the first place, but I prefer to see it as the canary in the coal mine before I started having big issues.

I could restore it all, but my main backup is corrupted as well. I can certainly get everything I want back, I have some redundant backups, but to get it all would be a waste of time. To me, some data loss is not the end of the world.

The dirty kick in the pants is, the disk has been on it's way out for a few months, so a very small percent of the errors have made their way into my backups. and OSX has had nothing to say about it. From now on, weekly checkups with diskutility set to run in the middle of the night... and no more bargain-basement hitachi disks from the clearance rack (I hear seagate constellation is good?)

Yes, this is on a 2006 mac pro with 10.9.2 with a modified boot.efi. Yes, it is an unsupported configuration. No, I don't care (as it works fine otherwise). Would a better filesystem saved the disk? No. Would it have told me it was failing sooner? Maybe.

</rant>

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Re: Strike up one more for OSX getting a new filesystem

Unread postby ClassicHasClass » Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:57 am

Yeah, when HFS+ decides to crap its pants, it does it bad. :(

Does DiskWarrior work on 10.9? That's always been my go-to utility for fixing HFS volumes, though of course I'm still in 2009 with 10.4.11. :)
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Re: Strike up one more for OSX getting a new filesystem

Unread postby josehill » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:41 am

I'm a huge fan of DiskWarrior (which does work on 10.9.x), but in cases where the disk is obviously starting to fail at the hardware level and has problems mounting, my go-to tool is Data Rescue from Prosoft Engineering.

Data Rescue is an extraction tool, not a repair tool. It will attempt to copy everything it can from a dying disk to a new disk. IMHO, if you're the kind of person who tries to fix broken Macs rather than throw them away, it is absolutely worth spending the $99 for Data Rescue before you need it. Alternately, you can download it and run it in demo mode to see if it can help before forking over the cash, but that may be a risky proposition for a disk that may be falling apart.

(Disclaimer: I have no connection to Prosoft, aside from having my bacon saved by their utilities on more than one occasion. They also have an interesting history, having written disk utilities and other tools as contractors for Apple and others from "back in the day." Their NetWare client kept the Macs in my former BigCo running on the network for many years after Novell dropped support for Macs.)

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Re: Strike up one more for OSX getting a new filesystem

Unread postby Geoman » Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:26 am

<rant>Now it's 2014 and no ZFS in MacOS yet. But a very colorful clickable userland - because this is the most important thing of it all.
Well, Windows can't be taken seriously either with that NTFS-junk.</rant>

I shall migrate to Linux or use more IRIX ...
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Re: Strike up one more for OSX getting a new filesystem

Unread postby foetz » Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:11 am

Geoman wrote:<rant>Now it's 2014 and no ZFS in MacOS yet. But a very colorful clickable userland - because this is the most important thing of it all.

of course. for the desktop there's no professional section anymore. everything is consumer level.

I shall migrate to Linux or use more IRIX ...

linux on the desktop is pointless because of the ever shining lack of software support from pretty much all major companies. so it comes down to a combo of irix and osx (or wintendo if you must :P )

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Re: Strike up one more for OSX getting a new filesystem

Unread postby Geoman » Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:30 am

...actually it is the latter (Wintendo) :)

In the meantime let's get some popcorn and watch the windows-8-induced downfall of Microsoft and rise of linux on the desktop thanks to Valve's Steam. (or not?)
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Re: Strike up one more for OSX getting a new filesystem

Unread postby ClassicHasClass » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:34 pm

josehill wrote:I'm a huge fan of DiskWarrior (which does work on 10.9.x), but in cases where the disk is obviously starting to fail at the hardware level and has problems mounting, my go-to tool is Data Rescue from Prosoft Engineering.


<Purchase> *click*
smit happens.

:Fuel: bigred, 900MHz R16K, 4GB RAM, V12 DCD, 6.5.30
:Indy: indy, 150MHz R4400SC, 256MB RAM, XL24, 6.5.10
:Indigo2IMP: purplehaze, 175MHz R10000, Solid IMPACT
probably posted from Image bruce, Quad 2.5GHz PowerPC 970MP, 16GB RAM, Mac OS X 10.4.11
plus IBM POWER6 p520 * Apple Network Server 500 * RDI PrecisionBook * BeBox * Solbourne S3000 * Commodore 128 * many more...

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Re: Strike up one more for OSX getting a new filesystem

Unread postby noth » Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:40 am

ZFS is available for Mac you know... https://code.google.com/p/maczfs/.

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Re: Strike up one more for OSX getting a new filesystem

Unread postby ClassicHasClass » Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:12 am

Nice. I'll have to see if I can port that to Tiger.
smit happens.

:Fuel: bigred, 900MHz R16K, 4GB RAM, V12 DCD, 6.5.30
:Indy: indy, 150MHz R4400SC, 256MB RAM, XL24, 6.5.10
:Indigo2IMP: purplehaze, 175MHz R10000, Solid IMPACT
probably posted from Image bruce, Quad 2.5GHz PowerPC 970MP, 16GB RAM, Mac OS X 10.4.11
plus IBM POWER6 p520 * Apple Network Server 500 * RDI PrecisionBook * BeBox * Solbourne S3000 * Commodore 128 * many more...

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Re: Strike up one more for OSX getting a new filesystem

Unread postby Geoman » Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:16 am

noth wrote:ZFS is available for Mac you know... https://code.google.com/p/maczfs/.

Okay - that a good thing to read. :)

BUT (as always) it belongs right onto the installation disks for use with rootdrive IMHO.
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Re: Strike up one more for OSX getting a new filesystem

Unread postby guardian452 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:16 am

I wonder if the disk subsystems in a 2006 mac pro is up to a 3-disk raidz with 3 or 4tb disks. I think this configuration would be ideal for my needs. I am only concerned because I know they sold some sort of RAID controller plug-in board to take over from the built in disk controller. And application compatibility is also a concern... I already use aperture, itunes, an xboxy-sharing service I use called connect360... time machine would be a bonus. MacZFS doesn't like USB disks but what's their opinion of firewire? esata is almost a non-starter as OSX doesn't support hot-plugging.

The PCI-e SSDs are nice-looking. One of those would make a good system disk. A 3-disk raidz for working files and storage, some sort of external backup that doesn't need to be super fancy but if it's automated with TM it would be a blessing... and one disk sled spare as I like to keep a windows VM on it's own disk.


Amazing how one faulty disk turns even me into a storage nerd :shock: ZFS seems overkill on a root disk which in my case is barely ~70GB and doesn't grow much. Super easy to backup and restore.

Geoman wrote:<rant>Now it's 2014 and no ZFS in MacOS yet. But a very colorful clickable userland - because this is the most important thing of it all.
Well, Windows can't be taken seriously either with that NTFS-junk.</rant>

I shall migrate to Linux or use more IRIX ...

In the meantime let's get some popcorn and watch the windows-8-induced downfall of Microsoft and rise of linux on the desktop thanks to Valve's Steam. (or not?)
What colorful userland in OSX? It's all depressingly monochrome nowadays... I like windows 8, as far as the different windows goes, there's nothing wrong with it and all is to be expected ... microsoft has been in a downfall since everything after windows 2000/xp and the only thing 'rising' nowadays will be ipad and friends from samsung etc.

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Re: Strike up one more for OSX getting a new filesystem

Unread postby Geoman » Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:34 am

guardian452 wrote:Amazing how one faulty disk turns even me into a storage nerd :shock: ZFS seems overkill on a root disk which in my case is barely ~70GB and doesn't grow much. Super easy to backup and restore.

XFS runs on the smallest O² to the largest Altix-installations.
***
Of course companies like Alsoft won't be happy if Apple switched to ZFS or anything else. (Or then on the other hand have a reason to sell new software for it.)

guardian452 wrote:What colorful userland in OSX? It's all depressingly monochrome nowadays... I like windows 8, as far as the different windows goes, there's nothing wrong with it and all is to be expected ... microsoft has been in a downfall since everything after windows 2000/xp and the only thing 'rising' nowadays will be ipad and friends from samsung etc.


You're right - the GUIs become more and more minimalistic these days. I don't like that - recently I sat in front of a new Macintosh of a friend and I did not find the scrollbar! They appear only if one scrolls :lol:

Under the hood both OS Windows and MacOS don't come up with something essentially new - concerning the kernel Linux is the main innovator right now.

As for filesystems, I don't trust any of them - all the important stuff is on a RAID 10 + scheduled backups.
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"We Are Slower Than Other Operating Systems. Here Is Why."

Unread postby Geoman » Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:50 am

http://blog.zorinaq.com/?e=74

Windows is indeed slower than other operating systems in many scenarios, and the gap is worsening. The cause of the problem is social. There's almost none of the improvement for its own sake, for the sake of glory, that you see in the Linux world.
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Re: Strike up one more for OSX getting a new filesystem

Unread postby guardian452 » Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:55 am

Under the hood there is a *lot* of improvements... timer coalescing, compressed memory, app naps, all the bullet points ;) Compressed memory is very good for those of us with a mac air with only 2gb (tho I'll probably be upgrading soon anyways.. the 4gb logic board replacements are cheaper than 2gb and I fried a USB) The scrollbars, by default, appear when scrolling if there is a touchpad input device. If there is a mouse, they are always there. You could set it whichever way you want...

But nobody ever notices that stuff... so nobody cares... I think there was just too much entrenched stuff to do a filesystem replacement for the whole system, at the time they were considering ZFS. But if there was going to be a Right Time, it would have been with release 10.6... Better late than never, tho I suspect they are working on their own improved FS more suitable for their users.

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Re: Strike up one more for OSX getting a new filesystem

Unread postby josehill » Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:53 pm

guardian452 wrote:But if there was going to be a Right Time, it would have been with release 10.6... Better late than never, tho I suspect they are working on their own improved FS more suitable for their users.

I suppose, though the 10.6 was a really big refinement and consolidation of the platform. It was even billed as having minimal new end user-visible features, with nearly all of the improvement either under the hood or targeted at developers. I look at it as the "reference release" for Intel Macs, with 10.9 becoming (perhaps) the next "reference release." It took around four years to get from 10.6 to 10.9's under-the-hood improvements. I can't imagine it would've been possible to get that far at the time 10.6 was released, though I agree that the market would have raved about those improvements, if they would have been deliverable. As it was, it was probably a big enough effort just to get a fully Cocoa'd Finder built and tested.

But, yeah, I'd love to have the 10.6 user experience with 10.9's "invisible" improvements.


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