WWDC, Lion (Mac OS X 10.7), etc.

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WWDC, Lion (Mac OS X 10.7), etc.

Unread postby josehill » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:32 pm

Apple's Worldwide Developer's Conference kicked off toady, so I figure it's time to start a thread about Lion, iCloud, and anything else that came out of it.

A lot of the attention seems to be about how many bits of the iPad/iPhone interface/experience will be available in Lion (see the video at the linked page), but there are a bunch of features that may be more useful, particularly for the more technically inclined.

Nice to see built-in support for whole disk encryption with an "instant wipe" capability. The new system restore options are also welcome, including a Windows-style restore partition. Speaking of Windows, Lion includes some Windows-like features, like a new "Resume" function (seems like Hibernate on steroids) and the ability to resize windows from any window edge.

In the networking department, Lion adds support for NFSv4 and SMB/DFS. It also looks like Apple is building some of the necessary infrastructure for moving all of OS X to the cloud some day, as witnessed by the ability to use Apple IDs, rather than local accounts, for accessing various network services, including file sharing, etc.

VMS fans might get a kick out of Lion's file versioning schemes, and both UNIX and VMS fans might have a chuckle over the Terminal program's new-found ability to run in full-screen mode, i.e. without menus, for that old school, vt100 experience.

Most significant of all, however, is the aggressive move to the cloud. At the moment, Apple has no plans to offer Lion via DVD -- if you want it, it's a $30, 4 GB upgrade, installable from the App Store. Will people really want that, or will people insist on DVDs? Will this mark the real beginning of moving all of a user's computing experience to the cloud, abandoning the device-centric computing model of the last few generations?

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Re: WWDC, Lion (Mac OS X 10.7), etc.

Unread postby PymbleSoftware » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:41 pm

We are running on OS-X at work (27 inch iMac with i5s and i7s 16Gb RAM, etc) and one of the guys is watching the video and I saw $129 on the screen.. I guess that is a server edition or something.. anyway its a hell of a lot cheaper Windows7 and I had a series of hardware crashes on Win7 and worse network performance than WindowsXP at my last job so $30 or $129... I'd probably pay it if I had the hardware to run it. I guess I will find out about it all (Lion, iCloud, etc) from banter around the office.

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Re: WWDC, Lion (Mac OS X 10.7), etc.

Unread postby ianj » Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:22 am

josehill wrote:Nice to see built-in support for whole disk encryption with an "instant wipe" capability. The new system restore options are also welcome, including a Windows-style restore partition. Speaking of Windows, Lion includes some Windows-like features, like a new "Resume" function (seems like Hibernate on steroids) and the ability to resize windows from any window edge.


I don't like the addition of full-screen applications and window resizing from any edge. These are major identifying features of Windows, and I don't think they belong in the Mac OS. Full-screen apps aren't as big of a deal because you don't have to use them, but the prospect of accidentally resizing windows when trying to move them is not a good one. Apple will probably do any-edge resizing better than it's been done before, but I still think it's a bad idea.

josehill wrote:Most significant of all, however, is the aggressive move to the cloud. At the moment, Apple has no plans to offer Lion via DVD -- if you want it, it's a $30, 4 GB upgrade, installable from the App Store. Will people really want that, or will people insist on DVDs? Will this mark the real beginning of moving all of a user's computing experience to the cloud, abandoning the device-centric computing model of the last few generations?


I'm not interested in putting my data in the "cloud" (I have my own servers; why keep my data on somebody else's?) but what Apple is doing there is going to be a huge gain for many users. The installer is more iffy. I don't care whether it comes on a DVD or not, but I like to apply new major OS X releases as fresh installs, not upgrades. It's important to me that the OS be available as some sort of full-install image and not just an update pulled from the Internet by a running OS X installation. I assume some image will circulate at least so repair techs can reinstall it on machines, but whether it will be available to the public is another story. We'll see.

Apple is moving farther away from traditional desktop standards, which shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. I don't like all of the directions they're taking things in, but I'm mostly going to watch from the sidelines and give them the benefit of the doubt, at least at first. I've been shifting away from OS X and towards more "normal" UNIX on the desktop, but I travel with a MacBook Pro and may get an iPhone next year, so I intend to keep a foot in the Apple world.

My laptop is 32-bit and therefore won't run 10.7, so, again, watching from the sidelines.
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Re: WWDC, Lion (Mac OS X 10.7), etc.

Unread postby guardian452 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:27 pm

I registered for mobileme 60 days trial, but everything it does, can either be done better by other services or by myself. Thanks for reminding me to cancel that... :)


While apple is "aggressively moving to the cloud", I also like what they are doing with lion server. I might get a mini when lion comes out.
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Re: WWDC, Lion (Mac OS X 10.7), etc.

Unread postby nekonoko » Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:38 pm

ianj wrote:The installer is more iffy. I don't care whether it comes on a DVD or not, but I like to apply new major OS X releases as fresh installs, not upgrades. It's important to me that the OS be available as some sort of full-install image and not just an update pulled from the Internet by a running OS X installation.


You can do a full, clean install with the app store download. You can even burn a bootable DVD or USB drive if need be.
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Re: WWDC, Lion (Mac OS X 10.7), etc.

Unread postby Stoo » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:00 pm

PymbleSoftware wrote:We are running on OS-X at work (27 inch iMac with i5s and i7s 16Gb RAM, etc) and one of the guys is watching the video and I saw $129 on the screen.. I guess that is a server edition or something.. anyway its a hell of a lot cheaper Windows7 and I had a series of hardware crashes on Win7 and worse network performance than WindowsXP at my last job so $30 or $129... I'd probably pay it if I had the hardware to run it. I guess I will find out about it all (Lion, iCloud, etc) from banter around the office.

R.



Lion is $29.99, Lion Server is just a bunch of apps you download from the app-store for around $50 from what was mentioned :)
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Re: WWDC, Lion (Mac OS X 10.7), etc.

Unread postby bri3d » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:29 pm

I'm loving iOS 5 so far. The new notification center really cleans up the OS and eliminated my only hang-up to wholeheartedly recommending iOS to everyone who asks me for phone advice. Yes, it's a rip-off of Android's notifications systems, but that's a good thing - if there's one thing Android nailed, that's it, and since iOS pretty handily sweeps every other core phone feature, it's now my OS of choice. Apple even made notifications uncharacteristically user-customizable, one-upping Android in the process.

iCloud is a fantastic idea - I'm not very convinced of the iCloud music offering's superiority to Google Music/Amazon Cloud or to Rdio/Rhapsody/Zune Pass et. al., but every other aspect seems to have nailed the promise of networking perfectly: use data without needing to deal with physical boundaries. And the provided key/value and document storage APIs will spawn some sweet apps with seamless Mac/PC/Phone sharing capabilities.

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Re: WWDC, Lion (Mac OS X 10.7), etc.

Unread postby guardian452 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:51 pm

bri3d wrote:I'm not very convinced of the iCloud music offering's superiority to Google Music/Amazon Cloud or to Rdio/Rhapsody/Zune Pass et. al...

That is the one thing I miss about windows, I now run zune in virtualbox (the only thing I need virtualbox for!). Does anybody actually use itunes to listen to music? what buffoon designed that piece of shit? (I could go on for hours...) Also, from what I understand, itunes store doesn't use mp3s but some proprietary format (aac?) which my mazda mp3 player does not support. So I'll stick with zune/amazon for now :)

Never used the zune service tho. I buy mp3's from amazon and borrow CDs. and tapes, vinyl, listen to the radio, etc.
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Re: WWDC, Lion (Mac OS X 10.7), etc.

Unread postby ScutBoy » Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:40 am

sybrfreq wrote: Also, from what I understand, itunes store doesn't use mp3s but some proprietary format (aac?) which my mazda mp3 player does not support. So I'll stick with zune/amazon for now :)

Never used the zune service tho. I buy mp3's from amazon and borrow CDs. and tapes, vinyl, listen to the radio, etc.



You can convert from AAC to MP3 very easily - select one or more tracks in your library, right click and choose "Create MP3 version"

This is what I do to get songs on a USB stick for playing in my Kia Soul. It's easier than using the iPod integration with my iPhone.
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Re: WWDC, Lion (Mac OS X 10.7), etc.

Unread postby ChristTrekker » Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:27 am

ianj wrote:the prospect of accidentally resizing windows when trying to move them is not a good one. Apple will probably do any-edge resizing better than it's been done before, but I still think it's a bad idea.

I sometimes would appreciate the ability to drag any edge to resize, but I still believe in the original Apple HIG of "least surprise". Resizing a window is more "destructive" than moving it. Maybe option-drag or something to resize would be fine, though.

ianj wrote:My laptop is 32-bit and therefore won't run 10.7, so, again, watching from the sidelines.

And my G5 hasn't a hope, so I'm there with you.

nekonoko wrote:You can do a full, clean install with the app store download. You can even burn a bootable DVD or USB drive if need be.

I've seen instructions online for how to get the .dmg out of the downloaded installer app.

sybrfreq wrote:Also, from what I understand, itunes store doesn't use mp3s but some proprietary format (aac?) which my mazda mp3 player does not support.

I have an iPod, and have ripped almost all my songs from CD to AAC, because the format offers higher fidelity with smaller file size. If I ever move away from Apple, I suppose I'd have to redo all that, though as ScutBoy mentioned, it is possible to convert. I don't know if a converted-AAC MP3 would be as good as an originally-encoded MP3, but it may be possible.
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Re: WWDC, Lion (Mac OS X 10.7), etc.

Unread postby ianj » Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:16 am

ChristTrekker wrote:I sometimes would appreciate the ability to drag any edge to resize, but I still believe in the original Apple HIG of "least surprise". Resizing a window is more "destructive" than moving it. Maybe option-drag or something to resize would be fine, though.


This is exactly what I was thinking (resizing should be considered too destructive for the entire window border to trigger it). Apple has a history of using modifier keys for less commonly-used window operations, so see your suggestion being a better fit than changing the default behavior. While we're on the subject, Alt-drag to move windows from anywhere is the UNIX window manager/desktop feature I miss the most when using OS X. That would also be nice to have considering how the upper parts of most Mac OS windows are increasingly taken up by live UI elements.

ChristTrekker wrote:I don't know if a converted-AAC MP3 would be as good as an originally-encoded MP3, but it may be possible.


Transcoding is possible, but nobody should ever do it. Ever.

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Re: WWDC, Lion (Mac OS X 10.7), etc.

Unread postby ScutBoy » Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:32 pm

ianj wrote:
Transcoding is possible, but nobody should ever do it. Ever.

Just had to say that.


Well, if I were always in my acoustically perfect room, in my plush leather chair with a snifter of brandy, I would agree.

However, in my little go-kart car at 80 MPH on the highway, I'm not as concerned that I'm getting perfect fidelity. :)

I totally agree that what works for me might not work for you.
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Re: WWDC, Lion (Mac OS X 10.7), etc.

Unread postby SAQ » Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:35 pm

ChristTrekker wrote:
sybrfreq wrote:Also, from what I understand, itunes store doesn't use mp3s but some proprietary format (aac?) which my mazda mp3 player does not support.

I have an iPod, and have ripped almost all my songs from CD to AAC, because the format offers higher fidelity with smaller file size. If I ever move away from Apple, I suppose I'd have to redo all that, though as ScutBoy mentioned, it is possible to convert. I don't know if a converted-AAC MP3 would be as good as an originally-encoded MP3, but it may be possible.


I'm pretty sure that AAC is a subpart of MPEG-4, so compatibility is more than just Apple devices. I think I even remember there being replacement software for several players that supports AAC/MP4 audio, though I haven't used it.
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Re: WWDC, Lion (Mac OS X 10.7), etc.

Unread postby ChristTrekker » Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:49 am

SAQ wrote:I'm pretty sure that AAC is a subpart of MPEG-4, so compatibility is more than just Apple devices. I think I even remember there being replacement software for several players that supports AAC/MP4 audio, though I haven't used it.

I'd always heard that, too, so it's always surprised me that more players don't support this format "out of the box".
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Re: WWDC, Lion (Mac OS X 10.7), etc.

Unread postby guardian452 » Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:06 pm

sybrfreq wrote:I registered for mobileme 60 days trial, but everything it does, can either be done better by other services or by myself. Thanks for reminding me to cancel that... :)


While apple is "aggressively moving to the cloud", I also like what they are doing with lion server. I might get a mini when lion comes out.


I mis-understood :mrgreen:
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Even though my account was only a trial, it was also extended until the end of June 2012. Very Cool! It's a little iffy for $100 a term, but free can't be beat!


Most significant of all, however, is the aggressive move to the cloud. At the moment, Apple has no plans to offer Lion via DVD -- if you want it, it's a $30, 4 GB upgrade, installable from the App Store. Will people really want that, or will people insist on DVDs? Will this mark the real beginning of moving all of a user's computing experience to the cloud, abandoning the device-centric computing model of the last few generations?


The app store isn't really cloud computing... I've bought aperture and xcode from the app store and they run square and dandy on the computer right in front of me. It's more about not having to waste a dvd and hunt down a drive to install the OS.


I'm more excited about the new lion server than icloud... I would prefer to run my own server as others have mentioned.




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