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Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:53 am 
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kjaer wrote:
ianj wrote:
I don't like the model of doing file management across directories within a single window to begin with, but for that model, I agree that a shelf is better.


Well, you've never had to do it in a single window, even on NEXTSTEP. Dragging to manage files in a single finder window is totally the pits, and even though it's no big deal to open another one to do some activity and then close it, it irritates me in tiny ways to actually do it.


Sure, you don't have to, but the point is that there is a method for moving files from one place to another without directly dragging them between two simultaneously visible locations. Traditionally on a Mac, this is the only way to move files, but other systems have offered alternatives to account for the possibility of movement between directories within a single window (impossible on a Mac). OS X's Finder is now a weird amalgamation where you can browse directories the NeXT way, but you're still supposed to move files the Mac way, unless you're a Windows "switcher" who wants to copy/paste files, which you can also do. It doesn't have a coherent sense of what kind of file manager it wants to be, which has annoyed me since 10.0 and still does.

kjaer wrote:
Thanks for pointing out that what I ACTUALLY meant was "hide this app".


OH. I use that feature constantly. Barely anything outside of Mac OS seems to have it, which is a big factor in keeping me away from other platforms for full-time use. OS X introduced minimize, but I use that maybe once every few weeks. The ability to instantly remove entire applications from the screen and recall them as they were is far more useful to me than what I find myself doing in Windows, GNOME, and KDE (constantly minimizing and restoring windows one by one).

kjaer wrote:
You are right that services were there, but almost all of them were missing. "Look up in Dictionary" was the biggest one, followed closely by "New Textedit window containing selection" and "Open URL in OmniWeb". Safari finally has an "Open URL" service since version 3 or so. I remember quite clearly having big problems with this when I switched my primary platform from NS 3.3 to OS X 10.2 in 2002. Maybe the Textedit service was there but didn't work? I forget.


Interesting; I hadn't noticed that Apple was quietly adding NeXT-era entries back to the Services menu, but I haven't spent much time in NEXTSTEP and probably wouldn't have picked up on it anyway. "Open URL in OmniWeb" has been there since day one, though... if you have OmniWeb installed (and at least in my opinion, there's very little reason to trouble with anything other than OmniWeb in OS X).

theinonen wrote:
On RISC OS it works like this:

- Click on window to get input focus, window retains it’s position.
- Click on title bar of the window with left mouse button, window comes front and can be normally dragged with left mouse button.
- Drag with right mouse button from the title bar of the window, window moves but does not come front.


RISC OS seems to have a very thoughtful way of doing things. I've only seen a RISC OS machine in action once, though. It would be fun to have one to experiment with.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:52 pm 
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ianj wrote:
Interesting; I hadn't noticed that Apple was quietly adding NeXT-era entries back to the Services menu, but I haven't spent much time in NEXTSTEP and probably wouldn't have picked up on it anyway. "Open URL in OmniWeb" has been there since day one, though... if you have OmniWeb installed (and at least in my opinion, there's very little reason to trouble with anything other than OmniWeb in OS X).


True that, though the keyboard shortcut for it (command-U, possibly the most useful thing about it after its existence) was missing for a long time. When Safari added an open URL service, it didn't have a keyboard shortcut, though at some point I noticed that you could configure these in the Keyboard preference panel. Whether THAT was always there and it took me a long time to find it, or it was something they eventually added... I couldn't say. Hours of delight after discovering it though. Now Safari seems to have command-U by default, which is great since I hardly ever use OmniWeb anymore (though its ability to edit source and redisplay the page from the in-memory copy is still unmatched and sorely in need of implementing on other browsers).

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:54 am 
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Any particular reason why you use Safari over OmniWeb? I'm a bit curious because I've been ignoring Safari for years.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:08 am 
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Why should I use omniweb over safari? I've been ignoring everything else for a few years now. :D

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:53 am 
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zmttoxics wrote:
Why should I use omniweb over safari? I've been ignoring everything else for a few years now. :D


OmniWeb has more features than Safari and a much nicer interface. Also, I prefer the way it does tabs compared to everything else.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:56 am 
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I gave it a shot today but couldn't get my book marks imported correctly, and it wasn't easy to remove their existing set, so I gave up fairly quickly. Looks like its webkit based, so aside from the good tab "shelf" thing, I didn't see anything that made me want to make it work. :(

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:34 am 
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Fair enough. I've never tried importing bookmarks into OmniWeb because I've been using it as long as I've used OS X, but the browser itself is definitely better than Safari. Some things it does that I like...

[*] The aforementioned source editor

[*] The ability to break out text-entry fields into a separate window. You can always copy/paste into a text editor, but the way OmniWeb does it, without the need to manually take out the text and put it back in, is very elegant.

[*] The ability to check bookmarks for updates and to make sure the links haven't gone dead, which reflects in the bookmark icons in the menu/toolbar.

[*] Site-specific preferences. In OmniWeb you can chose very specifically how the browser identifies with a given website and how it handles its content. This is especially useful for the handful of remaining websites that still have built-in browser checks - you can spoof as another browser to one site but still identify properly to everything else.

[*] Built-in adblocker.

[*] Just generally having very nice icons and UI elements, and not having gratuitous animations for simple features like "Top Sites" (a bit subjective, but this is one reason why I don't like Safari).

I'm sure there are some other things I've forgotten, but those are some of the highlights of OmniWeb. Firefox users like to point out to me that most of these are available as extensions, but having them built-in is a smoother experience.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:52 am 
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Omniweb is awesome. I actually have 5 paid licenses (from before it was free.) My favorite feature is the site-specific preferences, but there are many little features I love too, like the ability to open any <textarea> into a separate window text editor, or the ability to quickly make search shortcuts from a form field.

Geof

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:52 am 
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ianj wrote:
zmttoxics wrote:
Why should I use omniweb over safari? I've been ignoring everything else for a few years now. :D


OmniWeb has more features than Safari and a much nicer interface. Also, I prefer the way it does tabs compared to everything else.


for widescreen users yes, huge waste of space in portrait and letterbox monitors.

best browser still maintained for tiger.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:20 pm 
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metallizer wrote:
for widescreen users yes, huge waste of space in portrait and letterbox monitors.

best browser still maintained for tiger.


Portait monitors are uncommon, but speaking of that, one other thing I like about OmniWeb tabs is that it's very easy to hide and show the drawer (overall it's much more flexible than the typical tab bar). The tab drawer takes up more pixels onscreen than a more typical tab bar, but the vast majority of monitors have more horizontal than vertical pixels, so it's still rather efficient.

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