Steve Jobs deprecates JAVA

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Steve Jobs deprecates JAVA

Unread postby porter » Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:06 pm

http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#releasenotes/Java/JavaSnowLeopardUpdate3LeopardUpdate8RN/NewandNoteworthy/NewandNoteworthy.html

After sticking it to Adobe, Classic, Carbon, OpenDoc and now Java, Steve Jobs' next target will be POSIX.

"POSIX is not required for flashy graphics and can't be used to lock developers in so it's not part of our future" he said yesterday.

No more Apple, I've had enough.
Last edited by porter on Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Steve Jobs deprecates POSIX

Unread postby skywriter » Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:37 pm

i hated java anyway.
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Re: Steve Jobs deprecates POSIX

Unread postby GL1zdA » Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:10 pm

The world would be better if engineers would decide on OS features, not salesman. They want to control the developers and have a share from their profits - just like they do on the iPhone.

skywriter wrote:i hated java anyway.

Did you program in Java or do you just hate AWT/Swing?
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Re: Steve Jobs deprecates POSIX

Unread postby skywriter » Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:30 pm

GL1zdA wrote:
skywriter wrote:i hated java anyway.

Did you program in Java or do you just hate AWT/Swing?



i had to fix someone else's java code.
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Re: Steve Jobs deprecates POSIX

Unread postby porter » Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:10 pm

I see your point, unmaintainable code has never been written in any other language than Java. It will now guarantee full employment for both professional Objective C programmers.
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Re: Steve Jobs deprecates POSIX

Unread postby skywriter » Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:35 pm

i didn't imply i couldn't do it; i said i didn't like it. two very different things. to be obtuse, i find object oriented programmings addition layers of obfuscation to be needlessly annoying.

and really, is self-righteously abandoning a platform your style, or have i misjudged your overly pedantic mutterings all these years?
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Re: Steve Jobs deprecates POSIX

Unread postby zmttoxics » Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:49 pm

Any link to the quote about POSIX?

How do you deprecate a standard? Thats like, "Nah, OSX isn't UNIX anymore. We fought really hard to get here, but F-it - we are bad ass", and I just don't see that.

Apple has maintained Java for many years because it was such a pain on PPC and no one wanted to do it (or could). Now that PPC is going the way of old yellar, and there is already an OSX x86 port of Open JDK 7 so there is no reason to waste time on it. It was a way to ensure that OSX on PPC could do it all, now it isn't necessary.

Ditching Flash also isn't a bad move. In both cases, you are stuck with an out dated product with a slow release cycle in the hands of Apple. If they aren't there, they force the user to download the latest release and takes a few big bug lists off of Apple's shoulders. I would rather see a more stable operating system with a solid set of features then time wasted on porting other peoples plugins and interpreters.
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Re: Steve Jobs deprecates POSIX

Unread postby SAQ » Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:47 pm

The Java runtime shipping in Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard, and Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard, will continue to be supported and maintained through the standard support cycles of those products.


What exactly does this mean? As far as I can see Apple's "standard support cycle" is "we support it until we get bored of it", which might be 3 months or 3 years. At least with MS you have guaranteed support for n years after the cessation of new sales.
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Re: Steve Jobs deprecates POSIX

Unread postby porter » Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:01 am

zmttoxics wrote:Any link to the quote about POSIX?


That was just exaggeration for effect....
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Re: Steve Jobs deprecates POSIX

Unread postby bri3d » Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:58 am

All Apple are saying is "we don't want to continue to support our in-house JVM." They're not preventing anyone from releasing their JVM for OSX (Oracle will almost certainly step in to provide Java for OSX as it's in their best interest) and they're just saying that JVM apps cannot be sold on their hokey App Store, which is entirely within their rights, sane, and reasonable, especially given that the App Store will probably use Mach-O executable encryption for its "security."

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Re: Steve Jobs deprecates POSIX

Unread postby Nihilus » Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:16 am

bri3d wrote:All Apple are saying is "we don't want to continue to support our in-house JVM." They're not preventing anyone from releasing their JVM for OSX (Oracle will almost certainly step in to provide Java for OSX as it's in their best interest) and they're just saying that JVM apps cannot be sold on their hokey App Store, which is entirely within their rights, sane, and reasonable, especially given that the App Store will probably use Mach-O executable encryption for its "security."


Indeed, I think it all got hyped and misinterpreted. IFF Apple will continue using gcc, I think POSIX will be there... POSIX ain't going away, will they deprecate the FBSD libc / kernel-code as well?
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Re: Steve Jobs deprecates POSIX

Unread postby SAQ » Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:53 am

My big beef with Apple is their support policy, which seems to translate into "we'll support things as long as we darn well want to, and not a day more". When you're asking a significant premium for a fancy case and trying to convince people that you're a serious contender you really need to be up front with how long you will guarantee to support your products. Look at SGI, Sun, IBM, HP, Microsoft... they all have guaranteed support, generally for about 5 years after last ship date. Apple is a toss-up - sometimes it's one year, sometimes 3 or so - but I don't think they've ever done the standard 5.
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Re: Steve Jobs deprecates POSIX

Unread postby zmttoxics » Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:19 am

SAQ wrote:My big beef with Apple is their support policy, which seems to translate into "we'll support things as long as we darn well want to, and not a day more". When you're asking a significant premium for a fancy case and trying to convince people that you're a serious contender you really need to be up front with how long you will guarantee to support your products. Look at SGI, Sun, IBM, HP, Microsoft... they all have guaranteed support, generally for about 5 years after last ship date. Apple is a toss-up - sometimes it's one year, sometimes 3 or so - but I don't think they've ever done the standard 5.


I think Apple does the 5 year hardware support for the most part. The only question is the late model G5s VS. Snow Leopard. The next on the chopping block is the CoreDuo platform for the Lion release. But that looks to be a solid 5 years of support (CD=2006, Lion=2011), and even then it is just a rumor at this point.
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Re: Steve Jobs deprecates POSIX

Unread postby porter » Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:35 am

I take the following
Apple wrote:Developers should not rely on the Apple-supplied Java runtime being present in future versions of Mac OS X
to mean don't assume that future versions of MacOSX will contain a JVM period.

Perhaps it is a way of avoiding spats with Oracle about whether it is a true Java or not by making it their problem.

It looks like XCode dumped Java a year or so ago. Not that I noticed seeing as I have no Intel macs. :)
Last edited by porter on Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Steve Jobs deprecates POSIX

Unread postby theinonen » Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:05 am

This is just the first step for making Mac OS X closed platform, and in time replace it with iOS. Signs are clear, functionality from iOS is gradually coming into OS X, and existing functionality is quietly getting removed.

Still, the most annoying thing about Apple is their website. Even in Bible, there is not that many praise words.


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