I've Had It With Firefox - Alternatives I'm Exploring

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I've Had It With Firefox - Alternatives I'm Exploring

Unread postby Raion-Fox » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:58 am

After it came out that Firefox donated money to an anarchist email service called RiseUp (which I have a serious problem with as people they're hosting have attacked my friends) I decided I would need to find an alternative primary browser.

I started with Brave, which is made by ex-Mozilla employee Brendan Eich (Whom some here have an issue with, I'm sure, but I wanted to try it.)

Brave is good for tracking/adblock protection but it has some flaws (No extensions, breaks some sites with default settings)

So Brave isn't what I'm looking for.

Vivaldi, though. Man, I love this. More customizable than Firefox, easy to use and very fast.

Now, both of these are webkit based, so I'm one more contributing to the monoculture. Oh well? Mozilla began digging its grave when it began thought policing its employees, throwing its hat in the ring for political reasons and being a total douche when people called them out on it.
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Re: I've Had It With Firefox - Alternatives I'm Exploring

Unread postby Trippynet » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:55 pm

My main browser at the moment is Pale Moon, a Firefox fork that doesn't have the Australis mess in it. It's not perfect, but it's Gecko based and pretty decent.
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Re: I've Had It With Firefox - Alternatives I'm Exploring

Unread postby commodorejohn » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:28 pm

Seconding the Pale Moon recommendation. All the stuff that made Firefox good, none of the bullshit.
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Re: I've Had It With Firefox - Alternatives I'm Exploring

Unread postby Raion-Fox » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:30 pm

One reason I like WebKit is that it does away with the dangerously unsafe npapi still used by Firefox for flash. I really don't use flash often anymore but occasionally I find it useful, and for that WebKit/Blink have Pepper API which is much safer.

Vivaldi is impressing me though, I may end up sticking with it as it reminds me of classic Opera.
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Re: I've Had It With Firefox - Alternatives I'm Exploring

Unread postby Dodoid » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:48 pm

I've never understood the appeal of RiseUp. I have one or two friends who use it, and I guess I can see why from a privacy point of view, but if you want privacy in your emails, end to end encryption with something like ProtonMail (my personal favorite) or even just regular GPG on standard emails is a much better option than just giving your emails to an organization that you agree with and saying "no spies pl0x kthx".

I don't really have a problem with them as an organization (they're entitled to have their own views), nor do I really have a problem with Mozilla funding them (Mozilla is also entitled to have their own views). RiseUp is also not really responsible for the actions of their users. Though their site is by invite only, any current user can send invites (believe me, my friends keep offering it), and it's big enough that that doesn't really restrict things all that much. I doubt you would be so upset at Google if your friends had received personal attacks from Gmail accounts, and really those are only marginally easier to get, requiring an equally nonexistant amount of agreement from the email service provider.

That said, Firefox is getting weird. Pocket and Firefox Accounts are ridiculous, Firefox Screenshots sends all screenshots to Mozilla servers, it really doesn't include any good privacy features, and though I have never tried to work on it I have heard that the codebase is insane. I might like to see a new browser for technical reasons, but the "political" hoopla around Firefox and Mozilla I really don't get. Come back to me once they actually start integrating politically-motivated features into their actual products.
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Re: I've Had It With Firefox - Alternatives I'm Exploring

Unread postby vishnu » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:52 pm

Firefox since around version 51 crashes relentlessly on 32 bit systems, which is most vexing to dinosaurs like me who still surf the web with such systems. :(
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Re: I've Had It With Firefox - Alternatives I'm Exploring

Unread postby commodorejohn » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:57 pm

Dodoid wrote:That said, Firefox is getting weird. Pocket and Firefox Accounts are ridiculous, Firefox Screenshots sends all screenshots to Mozilla servers,

Yeah, this is another reason I'm not on main-line FF. The reinvention as a bad Chrome clone was bad enough, but the constant, desperate attempts to horn in on the Social Cloud Media Big Brother Hivemind Experience are just fucking creepy.
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Re: I've Had It With Firefox - Alternatives I'm Exploring

Unread postby Raion-Fox » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:09 pm

Dodoid wrote:I don't really have a problem with them as an organization (they're entitled to have their own views), nor do I really have a problem with Mozilla funding them (Mozilla is also entitled to have their own views). RiseUp is also not really responsible for the actions of their users. Though their site is by invite only, any current user can send invites (believe me, my friends keep offering it), and it's big enough that that doesn't really restrict things all that much. I doubt you would be so upset at Google if your friends had received personal attacks from Gmail accounts, and really those are only marginally easier to get, requiring an equally nonexistant amount of agreement from the email service provider.


RiseUp has the star of left-wing anarchism in its logo. It would be one thing if it were like Google who doesn't really lean but so much one way or the other (I see PragerU ads all the time) but RiseUp is actively encouraging Antifa to use them, and Antifa is attacking people I know who aren't even Nazis!

I can't support any company that actively encourages **violent groups** to use its email services. Antifa are domestic terrorists. Bar none, and by Mozilla supporting them, they've lose a mainstream supporter, especially when I supported them for over a decade. Fuck Mozilla.
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Re: I've Had It With Firefox - Alternatives I'm Exploring

Unread postby Trippynet » Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:14 am

Raion-Fox wrote:One reason I like WebKit is that it does away with the dangerously unsafe npapi still used by Firefox for flash. I really don't use flash often anymore but occasionally I find it useful, and for that WebKit/Blink have Pepper API which is much safer.

Vivaldi is impressing me though, I may end up sticking with it as it reminds me of classic Opera.


I consider FlashBlock an essential extension. Blocks Flash by default, but does allow to either be enabled on a per-case basis, or whitelisted for a certain site.
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Re: I've Had It With Firefox - Alternatives I'm Exploring

Unread postby Krokodil » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:07 am

The thing is a pain in the ass now. Leave it open for a few days and it hogs tons of RAM. Right now it's using 5.5-7.5 GB... It often jerks and lurches for no apparent reason other than it's consuming all of the resources. Once it uses all the resources it can, it will crash itself and leave a turd (a core dump) in the current working directory. Not a fan of their recent political actions either. You're supposed to be making a browser that works, not pursuing social justice boondoggles.

I'll have to try this Vivaldi and Pale Moon.
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Re: I've Had It With Firefox - Alternatives I'm Exploring

Unread postby guardian452 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:19 pm

I guess I'm not a hardcore web user but I've always find the built-in options to be just fine. Safari and Chrome (our IT installs and/or recommends Chrome on windows boxes).

The web is such a cesspool anymore I don't know what a better browser is going to get you. As long as you have adblock and noscript etc.

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Re: I've Had It With Firefox - Alternatives I'm Exploring

Unread postby robespierre » Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:50 pm

RiseUp is apparently the host for the Tails git repository, which is a plausible reason to support them. They were also raided by the FBI several years back for being on the same VPN node as an anonymous remailer.

Mozilla itself, though, has shown itself to be a bad actor. From selling its users' data to forcing the installation of proprietary services, and forcing you to view tracking pixels in their email.
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Re: I've Had It With Firefox - Alternatives I'm Exploring

Unread postby Raion-Fox » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:41 pm

I dont use Tails and I don't recommend anyone with the technical literacy to not build their own liveUSB use it, as you are inherently trusting yourself to what could very well be an NSA plant.

RiseUp should be raided. Any organization proudly bearing a Marxist, Socialist or Leftwing anarchist symbol is not something I support existing.
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Re: I've Had It With Firefox - Alternatives I'm Exploring

Unread postby commodorejohn » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:10 pm

Ain't nothin' illegal about having views, man. If there's evidence they're complicit in wrongdoing, then let the cops do what they do, but until then it's a free country and a free Internet.
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Re: I've Had It With Firefox - Alternatives I'm Exploring

Unread postby Krokodil » Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:05 pm

Tried Vivaldi. I like it. Hopefully they keep it that way and the dopes stay away - the ones who don't appreciate things for what they are.
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