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Re: A Guide on Your Options for non-x86 Computers (2017)

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:53 pm
by Raion-Fox
Apple will switch to ARM for low end MacBooks once the economy of doing so makes sense.

ARM is slowly climbing in power but POWER6/SPARC64 VII is still more performant than the majority of the ARMs on the market, which is pretty pathetic.

Re: A Guide on Your Options for non-x86 Computers (2017)

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:54 pm
by Y888099
Raion-Fox wrote:Apple will switch to ARM for low end MacBooks once the economy of doing so makes sense.


It makes sense for iPad and tablets, it doesn't really make sense for MacOSX, therefore I expect it will be 'iOS-laptop'.
Something you can use for browsing, taking pictures, listening music, and videochat Apple Digital-life. Nothing serious.

And, since iOS is a genuine patheticOS (pathOS = a quality that evokes pity or sadness, it's clinically known that iOS might cause pain in a person's belly) here we are: Yet another hackable toy to be reloaded with linux/Arm, which sounds more pathetic if we consider the money we pay for it. You know, when you buy an Apple toy, you are also obliged to pay for the Apple software.

Raion-Fox wrote:ARM is slowly climbing in power but POWER6/SPARC64 VII is still more performant than the majority of the ARMs on the market, which is pretty pathetic.


Different targets, different efficiency, different constraints. And I wouldn't ignore intel. Atom is interesting. It's a shitty architecture at the low level, but at the high level isn't so bad.

Re: A Guide on Your Options for non-x86 Computers (2017)

Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:02 am
by commodorejohn
Atom is surprisingly performant for what it is, but its main use is to give you something that's usable in a netbook form factor if you also require x86 compatibility. Beyond that, it has pretty much nothing to recommend it.

ARM is indeed underpowered compared to other architectures; the frustrating thing, though, is that that's mainly because modern use cases require way the hell more horsepower than they have any right to. If software and particularly web design were as efficient as it was in the late '90s, modern ARM processors would be vastly more than sufficient for almost everybody's purposes...

Re: A Guide on Your Options for non-x86 Computers (2017)

Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:16 am
by Y888099
commodorejohn wrote:Beyond that, it has pretty much nothing to recommend


Why not? I see a good ratio between energy/computing power. And it's also cheap, and well supported by compilers.

Re: A Guide on Your Options for non-x86 Computers (2017)

Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:23 am
by commodorejohn
Because it's not as good at being x86 as the other options, and only somewhat better at hitting a power/performance sweet spot than a decent i5, and if you don't need x86 specifically I have no idea what you're doing looking at Atoms to begin with...

Re: A Guide on Your Options for non-x86 Computers (2017)

Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:56 am
by Trippynet
commodorejohn wrote:The nicest one I've personally owned was my R61, but the X201 I'm using as a daily driver now is quite nice as well.


I'm a big fan of the X201 as well. Classic keyboard, and (surprisingly) a decent trackpad too with proper buttons. Most Thinkpads have absolutely awful trackpads - one of my company laptops is a T440 and the trackpad is essentially useless it's that awful.

Re: A Guide on Your Options for non-x86 Computers (2017)

Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:31 am
by Y888099
ok. Any new mips-books from China? What about them?

Re: A Guide on Your Options for non-x86 Computers (2017)

Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:18 am
by guardian452
Y888099 wrote:
Raion-Fox wrote:Apple will switch to ARM for low end MacBooks once the economy of doing so makes sense.


It makes sense for iPad and tablets, it doesn't really make sense for MacOSX, therefore I expect it will be 'iOS-laptop'.
Something you can use for browsing, taking pictures, listening music, and videochat Apple Digital-life. Nothing serious.

I guarantee they already have internal MacOS builds running on ARM hardware. The ipad pros are already higher performance than the core m3 that the macbook uses, and it is not far off from the macbook airs either. While the macbook pros and imacs are still a ways off, apple doesn't seem too concerned about that market anyways. Their idea of a professional computer is software development which requires high performance but rarely for more than a couple seconds at a time.

Why do you think it can't be used for anything serious? The ipad is the 2nd most popular primary computing device at our corporate office, only because the macbook air has a keyboard built in. Everybody uses the same google-suite for work, even us engineers with the razers and thinkpads.

Some interesting things are afoot: the imagination divorce, nvidia releasing mac drivers for pascal, apple's plea to their sci/eng/AV users to "pretty please don't switch away, we have something cool coming we promise!" (too late for me).

Apple "dream machine": a new mac pro isn't coming till 2018, apple basically said as much. It can't possibly take more than a couple weeks to stuff an intel workstation into a Jony Ive-approved cuboid box, especially with Apple's resources. So what if it has both ARM and x86 CPUs? The ARM is higher performance than the (perhaps i5-level) intel to encourage software devs to port over, but the x86 exists for compatibility reasons. What enabled the switch from PPC to intel was the fact that Intel chips could emulate a PPC faster than a native PPC, and I can't imagine that happening going from Intel to ARM.

I know such a hybrid would never happen in reality, but what if the new mac pro was ARM? I wouldn't put it past Apple "King of Vertical" to pull it off... They can surely do an ARM chip that blasts the doors off the current mac pro at least.

Re: A Guide on Your Options for non-x86 Computers (2017)

Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:14 pm
by ClassicHasClass
What enabled the switch from PPC to intel was the fact that Intel chips could emulate a PPC faster than a native PPC


Okay, nothing personal, but I'm pretty tired of hearing this get repeated. I may be perpetually butthurt that Apple went Intel, but what enabled the switch from PPC to Intel was the fact(s) that Intel tipped their hand to Apple, the G5 had no chance of being put in a laptop, and IBM was tired of being in the consumer chip business.

The first batch of Mac Pros were not faster at emulating PPC applications than the G5 they were replacing, and in fact a number of reviews said you should go buy a Quad G5 if you need to run PPC apps really fast. See, inter alia, http://barefeats.com/quad06.html in which the Quad is still faster than the 2.66GHz Mac Pro in the two tested applications, despite the Mac Pro having a 6% clock speed edge, and even edged out the 3GHz in one.

Clearly the Intel was faster on Intel apps, but that isn't the claim made here.

Re: A Guide on Your Options for non-x86 Computers (2017)

Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:43 pm
by hamei
Post removed.

Re: A Guide on Your Options for non-x86 Computers (2017)

Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:49 am
by Y888099
hamei wrote:Anyone who uses google for anything is


LoL :lol:

Thought Zeda must be the one you are talking about. She is a "scientist" (so she makes herself called), and she insists on using google-documents application to describe her algorithms or scientific papers to me.

Why not Latek? :roll:




edit:
Image

About mips-laptop, I was referring to these.

Re: A Guide on Your Options for non-x86 Computers (2017)

Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:19 am
by spiroyster
hamei wrote:...Orwell were geniuses.

meh, I disagree...

Any mid 20th century science fiction writer who wrote about a future with such accurate political cynicism, false flag operations, propaganda implementation, social exclusion, totalitarian idolism and could speak about weston-super-mare so fondly, could eaaasily have predicated that these things wouldn't just be in our house.... we would be walking around with them. Get with the program George :roll:

Not that I'm offended, or disagree, butt me thinks the whole "herb/extinct bird" reference might be a bit 'Ministry of below the belt' and get removed soon though. This is a family forum after all. o.0

Re: A Guide on Your Options for non-x86 Computers (2017)

Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:33 am
by guardian452
They could be paying apple or microsoft the same price for what is largely the same product. IT has picked and purchased, not my decision obviously.

I only use the email and calendar part. I use excel a lot, google spreadsheets would be brought to its knees in seconds.

Re: A Guide on Your Options for non-x86 Computers (2017)

Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:06 am
by commodorejohn
95% of everything that people do in "office suites" can be done satisfactorily in a good text editor.

Re: A Guide on Your Options for non-x86 Computers (2017)

Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:38 am
by Y888099
commodorejohn wrote:95% of everything that people do in "office suites" can be done satisfactorily in a good text editor.


bah ... you can you write your thesis in latek using VIM/Emacs/Nano/NE/Joe/notepad ... and you get a good job done.
I personally did it when I was a student.

What about Excel? PowerPoint? Access? Can you do that? If so, how?

Miss Zeda (the scientist) uses the google-Document App to write mathematical stuff. Formulas, expressions, series ... this stuff. Personally I find more comfortable with Latek, or with MatCad, or with Mathematica. Even Microsoft Word 2007 + MathED (a plugin) is better.

Never tried OpenOffice.