Turning your back on windows

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Turning your back on windows

Unread postby uunix » Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:34 pm

Possibly been talked about many times (I may have even started a similar thread on using LINUX day to day), but after today (at work) and this..
https://tech.slashdot.org/story/16/07/28/1759229/microsoft-to-disable-policies-in-windows-10-pro-with-anniversary-update
I am beginning to get a bit cheesed off with looking after Windows users, viruses, the inability to do things, 3rd party IT companies (who can't figure out how to control exchange and don't even know what a shadow copy is) and the general lock down of my hardware.

LINUX is a no no.. it's just the same really

Yep apple have been doing it for years to some degree, but I don't really have any apple clients anymore and I work in a Windows environment.. I rely on GP to safe guard my users since AV's are just not enough these days.

So.. I want to quit my job, go back to 2000, use UNIX full stop and live on a cannel boat with solar powered panels.

What is the answer to this modern day 1984 world we live in?
Last edited by uunix on Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Turning you back on windows

Unread postby foetz » Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:38 pm

uunix wrote:What is the answer to this modern day 1984 world we live in?

well in terms of privacy and control osx and linux (and the rest anyway) are still much better than windows.

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Re: Turning you back on windows

Unread postby commodorejohn » Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:43 pm

If you want to use *nix and don't want to use Linux, your options are pretty much one of the BSDs, unless you're also wanting to stick to vintage workstations (although I admit I haven't tried x86 Solaris.) I find OpenBSD to be the freenix that least make me want to kill myself overall, although its laptop support is a little touch-and-go (but still pretty manageable.) It gets bonus points from me for enabling wifi right from the installer with no bullshit about OMG PROPRIETARY FIRMWARE BLOB!!! as Loonix likes to do. (That said, managing wireless network connections on it is, as far as I can tell, solely command-line territory, which is a little irritating.)
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Re: Turning you back on windows

Unread postby josehill » Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:02 pm

uunix wrote:What is the answer to this modern day 1984 world we live in?

Paper.

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Re: Turning you back on windows

Unread postby uunix » Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:19 pm

josehill wrote:
uunix wrote:What is the answer to this modern day 1984 world we live in?

Paper.

Someone will tipex me out!

OK.. how about the question.. is anyone out there Windows Free?
Last edited by foetz on Fri Jul 29, 2016 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: merged
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Re: Turning you back on windows

Unread postby Krokodil » Fri Jul 29, 2016 2:28 pm

Looks like my prediction about Windows turning to piss and poop about 10 years ago(20-07) is coming true.

I have no answer about what to do next - except maybe buy a mechanical typewriter. The same dumb trend seems to follow any open source project that gets too big.
Last edited by Krokodil on Fri Jul 29, 2016 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Turning you back on windows

Unread postby foetz » Fri Jul 29, 2016 2:28 pm

uunix wrote:is anyone out there Windows Free?

me :-)

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Re: Turning you back on windows

Unread postby guardian452 » Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:21 pm

Damn, I just came back to windows with a razer blade stealth and it is better than ever, certainly better than that POS windows 7 which couldn't handle dpi scaling properly so everything looked like dogshit. Couldn't even open a damn pdf outta the box :lol:

Razer rings around my old macbook which is basically the same machine that apple still sells today http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs-retina/ 2 years later for the same price :lol: I put a free gtx 750 in my core dock but I might upgrade to a Titan X (just, you know, for the hell of it). Can't really picture apple doing anything like that, but apple has never been a good platform for mcad and it has only gotten worse over the years. The intel graphics alone, built into the Razer, run solidworks about 100 times faster than a macbook with vmware. I can actually build entire assemblies that we use, and not sub-sub-assemblies and individual parts (and even then, had to keep my fingers crossed that it wouldn't crash). The battery lasts a lot longer than the worn-out lump inside my macbook, too.

I don't have much use for cortana but I wouldn't turn her off. She's kinda cool I guess. I think if I had purchased any other laptop I would probably not like windows either. Like a garbage thinkpad that makes you pay $40 to open your pdf files after 30 days, and tracks all of your web browsing with superfish, or any HP that has a demon-possessed trackpad, or a dell that... well, I actually purchased a pair of P2415Q monitors from Dell and they are great, so I have nothing bad to say about them except the rat's nest of cables coming out the back**. But Razer is pretty good about a trackpad and keyboard that don't suck, and not putting any crapware on your laptop at all. Actually it's a bit spartan, I had to pay for an email program (mailbird, $40) and office ($6/month) but I'd rather choose my own than have some crap shoveled in that I don't want.

My complaints about windows come from being used to apple lock-in schemes such as not having access to icloud keychain, apple pay, handoff, airdrop etc. I can hardly blame microsoft for that, but it is annoying and took a lot of getting used to. Never realized how much I used airdrop until I had to start emailing photos to myself again like some neanderthal.

** also, what the hell are all these buttons for? A power button? Because it can't figure out for itself if your computer is on or not? Jeez, my thunderbolt display had one cord and no buttons and it worked just fine. Except the picture was "great" in 2009, "good enough" in 2011, and laughably bad in 2016. The last "screen door" display I used regularly, and the glare off that thing, it could do double-duty as a mirror!
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uunix wrote:What is the answer to this modern day 1984 world we live in?

1. (easy) Throw any computer that you have @home in the garbage and don't look back. I did this years ago but have since added a Xbox one which is basically an windows PC. Also a Wii U and PS4.
2. (hard and scary) Get a job where you don't have to use a computer regularly (e.g. auto mechanic, chef, etc) or at least use it as a tool instead of having to worry about fixing it. I use 'em for their purpose and that's about it. It runs solidworks, great. It runs 3S Codesys, great. I get email, great. Lady in accounts blows up the email server? Not My Problem :D The extent of my IT usefulness at work comes to unplugging and replugging the office printer when it looses it's connection to the wifi.

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Re: Turning you back on windows

Unread postby uunix » Sat Jul 30, 2016 3:37 am

guardian452 wrote:
uunix wrote:What is the answer to this modern day 1984 world we live in?

1. (easy) Throw any computer that you have @home in the garbage and don't look back. I did this years ago but have since added a Xbox one which is basically an windows PC. Also a Wii U and PS4.
2. (hard and scary) Get a job where you don't have to use a computer regularly (e.g. auto mechanic, chef, etc) or at least use it as a tool instead of having to worry about fixing it. I use 'em for their purpose and that's about it. It runs solidworks, great. It runs 3S Codesys, great. I get email, great. Lady in accounts blows up the email server? Not My Problem :D The extent of my IT usefulness at work comes to unplugging and replugging the office printer when it looses it's connection to the wifi.

1/Throwing away computers in my house is never going to happen. I love computers too much. What I want to achieve is the ability to live in a Windows free world.
2/I couldn't work in a place where I was not in control of the IT infrastructure.. it would send me barmy. The thought of me watching someone fix my computer is a horrid one, especially if it wasn't fixed in 2 seconds..

I suppose it's more about rdesktop.. ability to have multiple screens, 24bit, sound etc.

I think I'm in dream world here.. in the light of the day, in my situation I'd be cutting off my nose to spite my face if I removed my PC from day to day use.

As for finding a none computing job... eeek
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Re: Turning your back on windows

Unread postby tomvos » Sat Jul 30, 2016 4:20 am

uunix wrote:What is the answer to this modern day 1984 world we live in?


Don't let the fear mongering of the IT news sites get the best of you. Yes, your next OS will monitor your behaviour.

But it's the same as to what actually happens every day in real life. Whenever you meet someone, you monitor this person and the other person monitors you. If it's a stranger, your internal mechanism to estimate what type of person you've just meet kicks in. If it's a friend, you try to find out what mood your friend is in. Perhaps she needs to be cheered up.

My point is, monitoring is not the issue. It's about what you do (or don't do) with the data you've gathered. E.g. I tend to be quite early in the office and often I'm the first person. I like to play music until the second person enters the room. My iPhone (or the AI on some Apple server) has learned that at a certain time and a certain location I tend to play music. So it's suggesting to open the music app from the lock screen whenever I'm early in the office. I see this as a convenience and as a polite action the OS has decided to do because it is monitoring my actions.

On the other hand, if the monitored data is accessible to the state and depending on which websites I visited the government decides whether I'm in a job or out of a job, this is a bad usage of monitored data. Just think of Turkey - while there is no evidence yet on what data the government decides who is a friend and who is a foe of Erdogan, I would not be surprised that monitoring the visited web sites is a least one metric to judge about a persons future.

So, I think it's OK to monitor, but there have to be strict guidelines what is deemed to be acceptable usage of monitored data. You can't stop the future from unravelling, but you can try to nudge it into the direction you seem to prefer.
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Re: Turning you back on windows

Unread postby guardian452 » Sat Jul 30, 2016 5:50 am

uunix wrote:2/I couldn't work in a place where I was not in control of the IT infrastructure.. it would send me barmy.

OK, so you're in control of the IT then get rid of all the windows! Easy-peesie-lemon-squeezie :)

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Re: Turning your back on windows

Unread postby Trippynet » Sat Jul 30, 2016 6:08 am

tomvos wrote:
uunix wrote:What is the answer to this modern day 1984 world we live in?


Don't let the fear mongering of the IT news sites get the best of you. Yes, your next OS will monitor your behaviour...


My issues with Windows 10 aren't that it monitors things by default. In the modern world, I can understand that as you say. However, I have concerns that when you turn the monitoring off, it still phones home to MS with alarming regularity. This is a trust issue IMO. I've turned off the monitoring, so why is it phoning home all the time? What info is it still splurging and why? Rather than being transparent and open here about what is being collected and what they're doing with the info, Microsoft are being secretive and illusive here. The result is that I do not trust Windows 10 or Microsoft one bit.

With the anniversary update, they're also being much more dictatorial about how people must use Windows and are removing more control from the OS. Turning off Cortana was previously an option, but they've stopped this. Why? What benefit does it serve to force someone to leave a feature enabled that they might not want? Same goes with the Windows store and "advertised" apps. It used to be possible to turn these off in Pro if you knew what you were doing, but MS have stopped this.

Add onto this all the issues with forced updates and the result is that Windows 10 is a secretive and untrustworthy OS that controls me, whereas Windows 7 is an OS that I control. I have a real problem with this approach. I don't think it's wrong to want to control the OS that's on my computer, which is why Windows 10 will most definitely not be going anywhere near my PC. It's a pity as there are some good bits about it. However the negative aspects outweigh the positives IMO.
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Re: Turning your back on windows

Unread postby tomvos » Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:19 am

I agree with you, sending data without the consent of the user should be a nogo.

All this controversy about Cortana and the other cloud features Microsoft forces on its users has at least the benefit that this starts a discussion in the media. People finally come to realize that their options to keep private data private are not only compromised when they use the internet, but even during normal daily usage.
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Re: Turning your back on windows

Unread postby wenp » Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:20 am

Virtualization.

From around 1999, I labored mightily to get a Linux desktop populated with good enough apps that I could banish Windows from my life. Sometime last year, I finally admitted that it was never going to happen, due to the relatively poor quality of Linux desktop applications. However, I also realized that while the great majority of apps I needed were best on Windows, the great majority of my time was spent doing things that were best on Linux.

My machines now run Linux, but with VirtualBox hosting Windows, which I just call up whenever I need a Windows app. I keep clean images of Windows and just generate a clone whenever I want to temporarily install something or do any kind of operation that would leave traces. I never worry about cleaning up or fixing Windows any more -- just delete the clone. I had hesitated to go this route because it seemed so wasteful of resources, but machines now have them to spare and this approach has been a great stress reducer for me. Also, I never, ever allow Windows to touch the Internet.

I wonder if you couldn't set this up for non-tech users. I would expect people to be willing to tolerate some kludginess in exchange for security. People are already using BitBox for browsing.

Regarding josehill's suggestion of paper... I'm a big fan of paper.

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Re: Turning you back on windows

Unread postby uunix » Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:30 am

guardian452 wrote:
uunix wrote:2/I couldn't work in a place where I was not in control of the IT infrastructure.. it would send me barmy.

OK, so you're in control of the IT then get rid of all the windows! Easy-peesie-lemon-squeezie :)

Client base target for company is Windows.. the world and his dog use window.. We use our own software.. it's not a choice of changing the infrastructure within the company.. the only choice is moving to another company, although I'm being a bit melodramatic there. :D
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