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 Post subject: Re: Choosing an SSD
Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:17 am 
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If you know German, then there is an SSD durability test in c't: http://www.heise.de/ct/inhalt/2012/03/66/ . You have to buy the issue to access it... But the conclusion is, that the drives begin to fail after writing several TB of data. The first to reduce the write speed was a 60 GB OCZ Solid3 - it fell from 100 MB/s to 10 MB/s after writing 25 TB. The next one was a 100 GB G-Skill FM-25 - its performance dropped after 152 TB. An 40 GB Intel 320 and 32 GB OCZ Onyx are still tested - the Intel is at 50 TB now, the Onyx at 40 TB.

Are there any estimates of how much data IRIX writes during normal operation (especially to swap space)?

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing an SSD
Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:50 am 
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hamei wrote:
Does the word "China" figure anywhere in this story ? You guys are going to have to become a lot more cunning if you want to keep buying stuff from here :P

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/OWC/ ... me_Pro_6G/ "Designed and built in the USA"

I regularly buy stuff straight from Hong Kong / China. Low price, low expectations (never been disappointed so far though).

This wasn't a $3 eSATA card with free world wide shipping though.

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing an SSD
Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:14 am 
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jan-jaap wrote:
"Designed and built in the USA"

I'm old and crotchety and I've seen far too many people play that game ... this is their "factory" ... looks pretty warehousey to me. Caveat emptor.
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Quote:
I regularly buy stuff straight from Hong Kong / China. Low price, low expectations (never been disappointed so far though

That's how we do it ... lure them into a false sense of security, then strike for the soft white unprotected underbelly :P


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing an SSD
Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:16 pm 
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I just can't get excited about any electric gizmos nowadays. 95% of it is all the same crap that all comes from the same disgusting chinese river valley whether it has apple or dell or ibm or philips or sony or samsung or whatever sticker on it. And products can have components from 30 different countries and assembled in another and distributed stored shipped and sold in more countries yet so electronics COO is just a steaming load of bullshit IMO.

And I think so far this year I have not bought anything "made in china"... german stuff, spanish, and of course american (all my foods and consumables etc as I am living in the USA)... but nothing chinese. Of course I've also not bought any consumer electrics in the past several months as I have no need for the stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing an SSD
Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:03 pm 
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guardian452 wrote:
And I think so far this year I have not bought anything "made in china"...

How about that ball your avatar is kicking ? Do you wear clothes ? Shoes ? Have a dog that you feed ? Furniture that you sleep in, sit on, eat at ? Do you ever use any tools ? Have a car that you drive ? Wait ! Didn't you say you bought an Ipad a while back ? Or a MacBook ?

Sorry, sybr. Fail.

Just for kicks ... how many "financial products" did you buy this past year ? This is what the US is going to live off ? "Investments" ? And hi-tech service economy jobs (if you live in India) ? Move beyond that stupid old-mindset manufacturing economy to one based on smoke and mirrors and hot air and everybody kissing the rich guy's dick ?

Good idea.


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing an SSD
Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:48 pm 
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hamei wrote:
guardian452 wrote:
And I think so far this year I have not bought anything "made in china"...

How about that ball your avatar is kicking ? Do you wear clothes ? Shoes ? Have a dog that you feed ? Furniture that you sleep in, sit on, eat at ? Do you ever use any tools ? Have a car that you drive ? Wait ! Didn't you say you bought an Ipad a while back ? Or a MacBook ?


Ohhhh boy I'm sure in trouble now!

    1. pakistan... that football is long dead and the carcass is somewhere under my bed. That one in particular is a T90. Even my real 'matchball' balls are from pakistan. I'd bet well over half of ALL footballs come from pakistan. Never really thought why. With one exception... the 2010 WC ball (jabulani) was chinese. and I have one.

    2. most vietnam/usa/cambodia/indonesia/brazil/spain. I see surprisingly little textiles coming from china. Now of course if I were to say... buy an oriental rug... it seems appropriate to buy something from china. 8-)

    3. some german and some spanish shoes, vietnamese, italian, chinese, and mexican shoes. You are striking close to the heart here as my senior/thesis project involves a heavily modified pair of... running shoes... so I have lots of shoes... and I have an aunt who is a cobbler as well (for theatre costumes etc). Perhaps somewhat ironically, I do not have a pair of shoes suitable for wearing with a nice suit. “Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes.” - Thoreau

    4. no dog anymore. My parent's dog (mutt) has never been to china.

    5. most of it is old cheap ikea stuff. I have an ancient solid oak desk that I got for free (minus the cost of carrying it out of a basement) and it must weigh 200 pounds, empty. A sumo wrestler could tap dance on it. I'm pretty sure that's american.

    6. yep I have a bunch of old mastercraft canadian stuff from my dad. also got a crappy (sears/craftsman) CHINESE cordless drill/flashlight/sander kit but as it was a christmas gift, I did not buy it). the battery charger especially emits a foul cheap-plastic smell whether on or off so I store it in a ziplock bag when I'm not using it :?

    7. japanese. all of it is japanese. even the radio, the tires, the glass, etc.

    8. macbook is also made in china but I purchased that early 2011. Last year ;) My old thinkpad was mexican and I can't complain about anything with it except the speed, it was 10 years old. Yep, most/all consumer electrics come from China nowadays!

Quote:
Just for kicks ... how many "financial products" did you buy this past year ? This is what the US is going to live off ? "Investments" ? And hi-tech service economy jobs (if you live in India) ? Move beyond that stupid old-mindset manufacturing economy to one based on smoke and mirrors and hot air and everybody kissing the rich guy's dick ?

Good idea.

No 'financial products' in the biblical sense this year... I have a US checking and savings accounts for some time now and a canadian and dutch savings as long as I've been old enough... not that there's a lot in there, mind you... ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing an SSD
Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:34 pm 
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guardian452 wrote:
No 'financial products' in the biblical sense this year...
Emphasis mine

Er, I assume this qualifier is based on the fundamental ass-raping that all citizen/consumers are subjected to when dealing with any kind of financial product in the US?

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing an SSD
Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:37 am 
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guardian452 wrote:
2. most vietnam/usa/cambodia/indonesia/brazil/spain. I see surprisingly little textiles coming from china.

I know this is going to shock you, but there maaaay be a certain amount of dishonesty going on here. Not that our brave patriotic job-creators would purposely lie to you or anything but ... clothes from Vietnam pay lower duty. I don't personally know about the other countries but have some suspicions ... I happen to have a friend in Guangdong who has a factory making knitwear, roughly 3,000 workers. They also have a place in Vietnam, a couple thousand square feet, where they sew in the "Made in Vietnam" labels.

Quote:
Now of course if I were to say... buy an oriental rug... it seems appropriate to buy something from china. 8-)

There are real silk rugs that come from Xinjiang and Qinghai and so on. I've never been into that, too gaudy for me, but some people like them. They are probably one of the few decent items that come from this place.

Quote:
3. some german and some spanish shoes, vietnamese, italian, chinese, and mexican shoes. You are striking close to the heart here as my senior/thesis project involves a heavily modified pair of... running shoes...

Wenzhou. The label is pretty much meaningless. Germany, Spain, Italy, all those countries have joint ventures here. Truth in labelling ? Yeah, right. Do you have any Crocs ? Wanna hear some stories ?

Quote:
4. no dog anymore.

That's too bad. You should get one ...

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My parent's dog (mutt) has never been to china.

But the dog food does. Oh, it's not labelled as such, but the main ingredients for much of the dog and cat food sold in the US come from ... you guessed it.

Quote:
5. most of it is old cheap ikea stuff.

We gots a monopoly on cheap :) but I have heard that Ikea actually makes some stuff in the US. Ikea is not American so it's not against their religion to pay middle class workers.

Quote:
... emits a foul cheap-plastic smell whether on or off so I store it in a ziplock bag when I'm not using it :?

I know that guy ... he works two floors down from us

Quote:
7. japanese. all of it is japanese. even the radio, the tires, the glass, etc.

Much "Japanese" stuff is made in China these days. There's an entire subculture here dedicated to discovering if something was actually made in Japan or just pretends to be. Most people would rather buy Made in Japan :)

btw, just for Oskar, ALL the Nikon lenses are made in China now.

Quote:
No 'financial products' in the biblical sense this year... I have a US checking and savings accounts for some time now and a canadian and dutch savings as long as I've been old enough... not that there's a lot in there, mind you... ;)

but ... but ... but ... you're not holding up your end of the deal ! You need to put all your money into financial instruments so the banks can allocate those presioous resources to best advantage - in the Cayman accounts of the wealthiest .001% ! They told us the US would be skimming the cream of the crop, just doing financial activities, the rest of us could all live high on the hog off financial services, there was no point to that old rust-belt manufacturing economy ! We'll all be rich beyond our wildest dreams ! (As Bill would ask, what is the definition of 'all' ?) Wall Street has conquered the boom and bust cycle ! Quants ! Quants ! They are too brilliant for us ordinary mortals to understand !

Amazing.


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing an SSD
Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:01 am 
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hamei wrote:
Quote:
3. some german and some spanish shoes, vietnamese, italian, chinese, and mexican shoes. You are striking close to the heart here as my senior/thesis project involves a heavily modified pair of... running shoes...

Wenzhou. The label is pretty much meaningless. Germany, Spain, Italy, all those countries have joint ventures here. Truth in labelling ? Yeah, right. Do you have any Crocs ? Wanna hear some stories ?


No, crocs (along with $200 plastic chinese nikes) are bullshit just like the people who wear them. But I have been to, and have a couple pairs from, herzogenaurach; you may or may not be aware, tis NOT a city in china. believe it or not many shoes are still made in the 1st world if you know where to look and not just luxury items... these you can buy for a reasonable price at a bigbox store like dicks or meijers.


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing an SSD
Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:53 pm 
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guardian452 wrote:
No, crocs (along with $200 plastic chinese nikes) are bullshit just like the people who wear them.

The guy most likely to agree with you is the one in charge of their production. You should hear the things he has to say about their management ... but ah, he's just a janitor. What would a janitor know ?

Quote:
But I have been to, and have a couple pairs from, herzogenaurach; you may or may not be aware, tis NOT a city in china.

I have a few friends here who are German. They are not yet as stupid as the Americans. In fact, when Tony Blair asked Angela Merkel what was the secret to German success, she famously replied, "We still make things, Mr Blair."

Even in software and other so-called "high tech" areas, the Germans seem to be a lot more focussed on useful, quality products instead of stupid flash and pandering to the illiterate. They also seem to have a lot fewer illiterate Germans, which probably helps. ( Altho VW just pulled the stupidest, most short-sighted blunder I have yet seen in China, so ... anyone can screw up, it appears. Btw, I have an SGI monitor that came from VW in Anting, still has the sticker :) )

No telling how long that will last, though. Possibly forever, Germans seem to be a lot smarter than the foolish American kapitalism toadies.

Quote:
believe it or not many shoes are still made in the 1st world if you know where to look and not just luxury items... these you can buy for a reasonable price at a bigbox store like dicks or meijers.

It's not entirely over yet, except possibly for the US. The Northeastern Establishment has sold out the country so badly that it may never return. And the younger poeople tend to be so brainwashed that there's not much hope. If I make it another fifteen years I can either see a rebirth of the middle class and an appreciation for craftsmanship (not holding my breath) or the total failure of the United States.

Interesting times.


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing an SSD
Unread postPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:34 am 
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hamei wrote:
btw, just for Oskar, ALL the Nikon lenses are made in China now.
[ot]Hold it. My Nikkor 200-400/4 has a label claiming "Made in Japan". What you are saying implies that Nikon lies, though. Anyway, since said lens is one of the best there is, it only means that China seems quite capable to produce something rather acceptable, indeed. Why not in other areas as well?[/ot]


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing an SSD
Unread postPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:54 pm 
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Oskar45 wrote:
Hold it. My Nikkor 200-400/4 has a label claiming "Made in Japan". What you are saying implies that Nikon lies

Yup, just like everybody else. New Balance, too. The lure of "cheap labor !" is too great for the useless lousy pricks destroying our world to resist. They have absolutely no qualms about lying through their teeth.


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 Post subject: Re: Choosing an SSD
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:04 pm 
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Car parts are terrible - "Made in ___ " often means "we put it in the box here". Some manufacturers are more accurate with the phrase "assembled in the USA from foreign and domestic parts", whereas others interpret "made in the USA" to mean "we put a screw in here".

Very interesting article in the paper here Sat. about Steve Jobs' discussion with Obama about why the iPhone couldn't be made here. It boils down to "in China there's a borderline slave workforce who can be roused at any time of the day or night for a 12+ hour shift doing whatever we want them to for peanuts. We couldn't do that in the U.S., and it would be such a terrible tragedy if we had to slip the release date because we're making it better (glass screen), because the expectations that our marketing division has put out are more important than basic human rights and fair practices". Comes from the New York Times: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/n ... ple22.html

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing an SSD
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:22 pm 
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Back on topic: SSDs :)
jan-jaap wrote:
My experience with OWC has been mixed so far.

[...]

It will be RMA-ed tomorrow.

Got the replacement SSD.

This time it doesn't show up as an Electra 6G. This one doesn't show up in the MacBook's Disc Utility at all :(

I've also attached it to two different PCs, both 2nd generation Core i5 systems. In one it works, on the SATA-2 and the 6G ports, Linux and Windows7. In the other PC Linux spews out an endless stream of 'SATA link error exception / hard reset bla bla'.

Sigh. Filed for another RMA ...

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 Post subject: Re: Choosing an SSD
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:46 pm 
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So it sounds like they are assembled in the USA, then :(

Quote:
I'm old and crotchety and I've seen far too many people play that game ... this is their "factory" ... looks pretty warehousey to me. Caveat emptor.
I've worked in places about that size building various industrial widgets. Places much smaller than that even, churning out a few dozen units a day...

Anyways, are you sure that's the right building? It looks quite different from the picture on their website!
http://eshop.macsales.com/Service/contact/


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