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Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 7:03 pm 
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Anyone have experience with this? It runs on Linux and they claim IRIX binaries run without modification. No free downloads, it seems.

Virtual IRIX for Silicon Graphics
http://www.vhware.co.il/#!sgi/c1x7g


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Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:08 pm 
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wenp wrote:
Anyone have experience with this? It runs on Linux and they claim IRIX binaries run without modification. No free downloads, it seems.

Virtual IRIX for Silicon Graphics
http://www.vhware.co.il/#!sgi/c1x7g


Wow, if real. I thought there was the issue of prom source not being available and SGI not licensing releasing any of the irix or prom source to any third party.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:00 pm 
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hmm pretty cool indeed. i wonder how gfx apps perform there. just a pity that it needs an itanium


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Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:48 pm 
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Emulating IRIX on Linux/Itanium? I think this application is better known as QuickTransit.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 3:19 am 
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jan-jaap wrote:
Emulating IRIX on Linux/Itanium? I think this application is better known as QuickTransit.

Wow. Half the wording on the VHWare advertisement page is lifted directly from the Quick Transit techpubs. As in, cut-and-paste lifted ...

Do you think they bought it from Rackable ? Or ..... ?

At least it has resurfaced. I could never understand why SGI didn't just include that with the Altixes. Who is going to change hardware if you have to buy all new software ? Or even more to the point, if you have to buy all new software, why the hell buy overpriced, unreliable hardware from a company swirling the toilet ?

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 5:15 am 
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Did QuickTransit for IRIX on Altix only, or on any Itanium system?

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:37 am 
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QuickTransit is the same technology that Apple licensed to run PowerPC code on Intel machines. In the Apple world, it's known as "Rosetta." The tech was developed by Transitive Corporation. Transitive also made versions of it to allow Solaris SPARC binaries to run under Linux on various hardware platforms and to allow Linux x86 binaries to run on IBM POWER systems. IBM ended up buying Transitive (cue epic, righteous rant from hamei in 5, 4, 3, 2...), and the tech lives on as IBM's PowerVM Lx86 product. Other flavors of QuickTransit, including Rosetta, have been scattered to the winds. Maybe these vhware guys managed to license it for IRIX before IBM killed it?


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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:57 am 
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sgifanatic wrote:
wenp wrote:
Anyone have experience with this? It runs on Linux and they claim IRIX binaries run without modification. No free downloads, it seems.

Virtual IRIX for Silicon Graphics
http://www.vhware.co.il/#!sgi/c1x7g


Wow, if real. I thought there was the issue of prom source not being available and SGI not licensing releasing any of the irix or prom source to any third party.


Hasn't stopped clean-room reimplementations before.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:50 am 
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I found a related news article. The writer seemed a bit confused at points, but here is the interesting bit. (http://tinyurl.com/qgk2yy8)

Quote:
In the case of Transitive's first customer, Silicon Graphics Inc., software for the older processor generally reaches at least 80 percent of the speed of native software, Wiederhold said. But that high score stems partly from the fact that the SGI systems are used for graphics tasks, which have little or no translation penalty, he said.


A better description of QuickTransit at SGI is here. (http://tinyurl.com/kyuslgm)

Quote:
QuickTransit for Itanium supports MIPS, Power/PowerPC, X86, and mainframe binaries; QuickTransit for Opteron supports MIPS, Power/PowerPC, and mainframe binaries; QuickTransit for X86 supports MIPS, Power/PowerPC, and mainframe binaries; and QuickTransit for Power/PowerPC supports MIPS, X86, and mainframe binaries.


Dream on...


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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:19 pm 
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josehill wrote:
IBM ended up buying Transitive (cue epic, righteous rant from hamei in 5, 4, 3, 2...),

Why ? IBM bought it because they could use it. Whether they sold off the rest of the product line, or this VH place is doing something shaky, who knows ?

This is not the same as Mickeysoft buying companies so they could kill them. Or use them to kill other people, e.g. Softimage.

Nor is it the same as places who need to "grow" so they buy a boatload of shit they don't understand and couldn't care less about just to jack up their stock price. And then jack it up again when they eventually sell that bountiful synergy to concentrate on their core business.

Buying something because you can use it is not at all the same thing as buying something to play financial games.

Rant over, this thing is a mystery. Or maybe two ...

Why did IBM buy Transitive ? They'd been doing virtual machines for decades. The VDM's in OS/2 are not exposed DOS sessions from behind the shell like Windows95, they are true virtual machines (in the 1980's). You can install any DOS you want in a vdm. You can install CP/M. You can install Xenix. IBM didn't come up with this for OS/2, they snagged it from upstream, their big box divisions. It is sort of a mystery why they would buy Transitive when they'd been doing this in-house for thirty years. Maybe they did do it to give themselves a stock bump ? Ginny and Sammy certainly are not Mr Watson.

Or maybe, with over half the IBM employees being there for fewer than five years and over half being low-cost drones (oops ! wrong word ! I meant highly-trained scientists and technicians ! sorry) overseas (words from Ginny's mouth), maybe they can't create good software anymore ?

Hmmm.

The other mystery is, "who is this vhf place ?" All they say about themselves on their website is they are cool, wonderful, talented, innovative, customer-oriented, eponymous, imaginative, innovative, entrepreneurial, acclaimed, iconic, legendary, idiotic, braindead, motherfucking stewpid loser ... oh wait. Got carried away with the buzzwords.

Anyway, you can't find out doodly-squat about them*, except they claim to be suppliers to the Israeli military. And their Irix-translation blurb is taken word-for-word from SGI Techpubs. Nowhere do they even breathe the word Transitive, yet the marketing drivel is plagiarised from SGI. Not similar, word-for-word.

Interesting. And strange.

*Have you noticed how many supposed "companies" hide everything about themselves on their websites ? There's one born every minute, right ? Seems like the web has turned the corner from home shopping channel to home shyster channel. Do you ever wonder how long this can last ?

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:34 pm 
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I think that QuickTransit is not a virtualization product as such, but a binary translation product. So it's comparable to the emulation part of QEMU, not to LPAR, KVM, Xen, etc.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 1:51 am 
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robespierre wrote:
I think that QuickTransit is not a virtualization product as such, but a binary translation product.

FX!32 ? :shock:

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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 6:55 am 
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hamei wrote:
robespierre wrote:
I think that QuickTransit is not a virtualization product as such, but a binary translation product.

FX!32 ? :shock:

Yes, both are application level, and use binary translation (hence MIPS code can be run on Itanium in the case of SGI/Quicktransit) and also map application API calls to the host's API/libraries. Hardware virtualisation creates a virtual machine which has the same CPU and similar hardware as the underlying host, and an OS runs in that.

FX!32 is also different to QuickTransit though. It was profile driven... run through x86 code, emulate, profile, generate optimised alpha versions of heavily used x86 routines, which are stored and used to speed up translation next time that app is run.

Transitive were one of the first companies to really commercialise dynamic binary translation (DBT)... all mapping between instruction sets is done at run time, and perhaps cached in memory, but not stored statically for reuse again next time the app is run. Something like an optimising compiler, but the source language is machine code. And most other products before QuickTransit were specific to a particular OS/host CPU and OS/target CPU. Transitive was a framework that could more easily be used to develop products for compatibility between any pair of UNIX like platforms.

IBM was already doing some work in similar areas for VLIW architectures via their research labs - Daisy, BOA. But Transitive had commercially useful, shipping products.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:25 am 
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Too bad its for GNU/Linux on Itanium only and not something like NetBSD which has various binary translators for Solaris, SysV, the Linux kernel and such.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:37 am 
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hamei wrote:
Why did IBM buy Transitive?

As I read the article, it seems there was also capability to run POWER on Intel. I'm sure IBM would want to stop that. BTW, it seems that the original IRIX emlutation was not just on Itanium; that's just what SGI marketed.

hamei wrote:
The other mystery is, "who is this vhf place?"

I was able to find the original producers of all the systems they advertise, except this one. Clearly, they are just resellers, but I can't find another source for their Virtual IRIX.

I contacted them about licensing, but they are being a bit cagey. What would be a good hardware configuration to propose in order to get a useful idea for us here? I was thinking of something small and workstation-ish...


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