Irix binary compatibility for Linux on MIPS64?

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rwengerter
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Irix binary compatibility for Linux on MIPS64?

Unread postby rwengerter » Sat May 02, 2015 5:56 pm

I am soon getting a multi-core 900 MHz MIPS64-based computer running Linux.
This computer does not support NetBSD. I want to be able to run at least some
Irix binaries.
How much effort would it be to port the NetBSD/MIPS Irix compatibility Layer
(Link: http://www.ukuug.org/masl/10 ) to Linux/MIPS?

Has someone already tried that?
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TeamBlackFox
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Re: Irix binary compatibility for Linux on MIPS64?

Unread postby TeamBlackFox » Sat May 02, 2015 6:13 pm

Very difficult. Linux and NetBSD are two totally different OSes, and MIPS is historically not well supported on Linux. Also, you won't be able to on a modern MIPS system anyways as IRIX is big-endian oriented, your Linux-MIPS system is more than likely little endian. So no, no way at all.
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rwengerter
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Re: Irix binary compatibility for Linux on MIPS64?

Unread postby rwengerter » Sun May 03, 2015 4:25 am

your Linux-MIPS system is more than likely little endian. So no, no way at all.


No, it is not. It is big endian. It has Sibyte SB1 cores. It can run the Pistachio microkernel
(see: http://l4hq.org/arch/mips64/ ).

Ok, I ask again: Is anyone in the forum that tried to run Irix binaries on a big endian
Linux/MIPS platform?
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Re: Irix binary compatibility for Linux on MIPS64?

Unread postby hamei » Sun May 03, 2015 5:25 am

rwengerter wrote:Ok, I ask again: Is anyone in the forum that tried to run Irix binaries on a big endian
Linux/MIPS platform?

That project was the pet of a guy from France who used to be pretty active on Usenet. Maybe some of the French contingent here might have contact info for him ?
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nyef
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Re: Irix binary compatibility for Linux on MIPS64?

Unread postby nyef » Sun May 03, 2015 5:30 am

Have you considered the flipside question: What would it take to get NetBSD running on this hardware?

rwengerter
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Re: Irix binary compatibility for Linux on MIPS64?

Unread postby rwengerter » Sun May 03, 2015 6:08 am

nyef wrote:Have you considered the flipside question: What would it take to get NetBSD running on this hardware?


Yes, I have. It has 4 GBit/s Fibrechannel ports and GBit Ethernet ports. I am pretty sure that there are
no available drivers for these ports if I would try to use NetBSD. I would therefore lose these ports
even if I would be successful in installing NetBSD.

Well, I currently don't have much information about the hardware. I plan to switch from Linux/x86 to Linux/MIPS
as main Linux development platform. I first have to install gcc on the Linux/MIPS computer. Later I will try to find
out what is necessary to run a simple Irix Hello-world-binary on the Linux/MIPS computer. I will post the information
here if I am successful.
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ClassicHasClass
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Re: Irix binary compatibility for Linux on MIPS64?

Unread postby ClassicHasClass » Sun May 03, 2015 8:59 am

Syscalls are one thing. That article doesn't say anything about dynamic linking (perhaps it requires that they are statically linked).
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TeamBlackFox
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Re: Irix binary compatibility for Linux on MIPS64?

Unread postby TeamBlackFox » Sun May 03, 2015 9:39 am

rwengerter wrote:Yes, I have. It has 4 GBit/s Fibrechannel ports and GBit Ethernet ports. I am pretty sure that there are
no available drivers for these ports if I would try to use NetBSD. I would therefore lose these ports
even if I would be successful in installing NetBSD.


Uhh I don't know what you're on, but NetBSD does have Fibrechannel and gigabit ethernet drivers for common chipsets. That being said, sounds like you're having an excuse to avoid BSD - which is your own business, but I doubt you'll have the patience and skill to adapt the NetBSD binary emulation layer for GNU/Linux. Maybe ask one of the Linux/MIPS guys like Kumba or ivelegacy, but beyond that, you're SOL, my friend. IRIX binaries which are dynamically linked will not run without having their libs copied over, and the IRIX kernel is mostly not well documented, so good luck with this project.
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bplaa.yai
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Re: Irix binary compatibility for Linux on MIPS64?

Unread postby bplaa.yai » Sun May 03, 2015 10:39 am

rwengerter wrote:How much effort would it be to port the NetBSD/MIPS Irix compatibility Layer
(Link: http://www.ukuug.org/masl/10 ) to Linux/MIPS?

Has someone already tried that?

If I believe this post and this linux kernel commit it looks like that irix binary compatibility support did exist at some point in time.
It seems it was pretty buggy and limited to the O32 ABI.
But it may give you some inspiration...
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rwengerter
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Re: Irix binary compatibility for Linux on MIPS64?

Unread postby rwengerter » Sun May 03, 2015 1:19 pm

TeamBlackFox wrote:Uhh I don't know what you're on, but NetBSD does have Fibrechannel and gigabit ethernet drivers for common chipsets. That being said, sounds like you're having an excuse to avoid BSD - which is your own business, but I doubt you'll have the patience and skill to adapt the NetBSD binary emulation layer for GNU/Linux. Maybe ask one of the Linux/MIPS guys like Kumba or ivelegacy, but beyond that, you're SOL, my friend. ...


I would very welcome to have NetBSD for my new multi-core Sibyte Computer, however I just read that even
NetBSD/Mips stopped to support Irix in NetBSD after 5.0 Quote from https://www.netbsd.org/changes/changes-6.0.html#kernel: "Support for Darwin, Mach, IRIX and PECOFF emulation was retired. [joerg 20110426]"
The manufacturer used an FPGA as a chipset, which of course cannot be supported by the standard NetBSD
drivers.
Well, I will try to boot NetBSD/Mips 5.0 and see how far it goes.

bplaa.yai wrote:If I believe this post and this linux kernel commit it looks like that irix binary compatibility support did exist at some point in time.
It seems it was pretty buggy and limited to the O32 ABI.
But it may give you some inspiration...

Thanks bplaa.yai. Some support for Irix binaries is better than nothing.
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mia
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Re: Irix binary compatibility for Linux on MIPS64?

Unread postby mia » Sat May 16, 2015 9:04 pm

I have, don't set your hopes too high, some static binaries will work.
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bplaa.yai
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Re: Irix binary compatibility for Linux on MIPS64?

Unread postby bplaa.yai » Sun May 17, 2015 11:54 am

mia wrote:I have, don't set your hopes too high, some static binaries will work.

Interesting. Would you elaborate on this ?
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rwengerter
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Re: Irix binary compatibility for Linux on MIPS64?

Unread postby rwengerter » Thu May 21, 2015 12:50 pm

bplaa.yai wrote:
mia wrote:I have, don't set your hopes too high, some static binaries will work.

Interesting. Would you elaborate on this ?


I first have to assemble a bootable Linux image. I have the Linux files as an tar.gz archive.
It uses a modified version of PMON as bootloader. I will report it here when I make progress.
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Kumba
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Re: Irix binary compatibility for Linux on MIPS64?

Unread postby Kumba » Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:02 pm

TeamBlackFox wrote:...MIPS is historically not well supported on Linux...
Eh, that's not entirely correct. It depends heavily on the particular MIPS platform you're running Linux on. If you're referring to the new MIPS32R6 stuff by ImgTec, that is *very* well supported. If you're talking Indigo² R10000, then this statement applies.

rwengerter wrote:I want to be able to run at least some Irix binaries.
This was attempted once, a long time ago. Ralf (the Linux/MIPS maintainer) exorcised the remaining bits of code a few years ago (via this URL linked to by bplaa.yai) since it was unmaintained and didn't work. If you start from that, you might be able to take a look at how it might be brought up to work with current Linux kernels. Mind you, this will not be a trivial project or task. You can probably find more information out in #mipslinux on Freenode. It can be dead in there at times, though, so just idle until you see activity.
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Re: Irix binary compatibility for Linux on MIPS64?

Unread postby nyef » Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:46 pm

This looks like the sort of project that can see promising results fairly quickly, but then get tied up with various undocumented incompatibilities and whatnot very shortly afterwards. The idea of running an IRIX userland in a Linux chroot is amusing, though. Or even just as the root filesystem. That would be worth some serious hack value, but I'd expect it to be a lot of work.


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