bye bye onyx family?

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choza
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bye bye onyx family?

Unread postby choza » Fri Nov 18, 2005 5:20 pm

take a look
http://www.sgi.com/products/visualization/
only the itanium crap
my dreamed sys Onyx 350 with IR 4 is no longer available :(

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foetz
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Unread postby foetz » Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:00 pm

not very new:
https://support.sgi.com/content_request ... index.html

anyway i'll miss the ir line as well...

oh and, i would take the onyx3x00 as the dream machine. better specs than the 3x0 :D

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Unread postby DaSeitz » Sun Nov 20, 2005 2:59 am

I'll miss the IR line, too

But we must look into the future! The new Altix 4000 blade concept seems to be very competive, especially the graphics blades. Maybe we'll se some decent graphics cards in SGI Altix in the future... .
Does anyone know what type of GPU SGI is using in the Altix 4000 G-Blades?

I think that they will use custom graphics cards based on the R 520 from ATI but equipped with at least 1GB of DDR3, but that is only my speculation (Ok, my dream) :wink:

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Unread postby Brombear » Sun Nov 20, 2005 3:34 am

DaSeitz wrote:I think that they will use custom graphics cards based on the R 520 from ATI but equipped with at least 1GB of DDR3, but that is only my speculation (Ok, my dream) :wink:


This would be my biggest nightmare ... the world has no need for graphics cards with buggy drivers ... I am more than happy that I finally ripped out my old x600 card from my machine and put the 512mb version of the 7800gtx inside. The x600 had many issues with opengl, in fact often it simply crashed with models we consider standard (simple opengl single texturing, cubemapping, no shading).

Well, but I guess there is a reason that sgi has made no explicit annoucement what is going to be used, but I guess it makes everything easier for graphics card manufactorers ... maybe they just need to switch their build system to support itanium ... xorg or xfree is already used ... but maybe I am only dreaming ...

Matthias
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Unread postby DaSeitz » Sun Nov 20, 2005 3:41 am

With "my dream" I meant only that this would be the most likely thing to happen. Of course I would prefer 2GB Quadros! And my real dream would be IR-5 but as this will not happen I prefer hoping for a good custom Fire card with custom SGI drivers.

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Unread postby Brombear » Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:26 am

DaSeitz wrote: And my real dream would be IR-5 but as this will not happen I prefer hoping for a good custom Fire card with custom SGI drivers.


Hmm, I also noticed this issue on Fire cards so there does not seem to be much difference. I wonder if SGIs ATI driver are so much different and if they really support everything that is standard these days in OpenGL land.

Matthias
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Unread postby unixmuseum » Sun Nov 20, 2005 10:11 am

Brombear wrote:I wonder if SGIs ATI driver are so much different and if they really support everything that is standard these days in OpenGL land.
sgi doesn't use any ATI drivers, they completely rewrite them from scratch...

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Unread postby Brombear » Sun Nov 20, 2005 10:40 am

unixmuseum wrote:sgi doesn't use any ATI drivers, they completely rewrite them from scratch...


Wow, that would be a tough job :shock: But are you really sure ? I saw the base rendering part of our software on a ati powered onyx ... and I got a few dejavus while looking at it :roll:

Matthias
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Clever Guys!

Unread postby GeneratriX » Sun Nov 20, 2005 10:55 am

unixmuseum wrote:sgi doesn't use any ATI drivers, they completely rewrite them from scratch...


An smart thing if you ask me! ;)

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Unread postby unixmuseum » Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:07 am

Brombear wrote:Wow, that would be a tough job :shock: But are you really sure ?
Yeah, at least that's what I was told by a couple of sgi people I know, and they weren't exactly nice about the ATI driver :-)
Brombear wrote:I saw the base rendering part of our software on a ati powered onyx ... and I got a few dejavus while looking at it :roll:
It's possible that some of this is hardware, or maybe sgi just grabbed a bunch of existing ATI code...

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Unread postby Brombear » Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:15 am

unixmuseum wrote:
Brombear wrote:I saw the base rendering part of our software on a ati powered onyx ... and I got a few dejavus while looking at it :roll:
It's possible that some of this is hardware, or maybe sgi just grabbed a bunch of existing ATI code...


That's what I would also guess ... completely writing it from scratch without really knowing about the internals maybe somehwat optimistic :)

Matthias
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GeneratriX
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SDK

Unread postby GeneratriX » Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:34 am

Brombear wrote:
unixmuseum wrote:
Brombear wrote:I saw the base rendering part of our software on a ati powered onyx ... and I got a few dejavus while looking at it :roll:
It's possible that some of this is hardware, or maybe sgi just grabbed a bunch of existing ATI code...


That's what I would also guess ... completely writing it from scratch without really knowing about the internals maybe somehwat optimistic :)

Matthias


At these levels of industry, I think the company licensing technology to others must provide at least: SDK, Driver Implementation Samples, Application Samples, etc... I can't think about a company not providing these resources for such kind of strategical alliances...

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Unread postby squeen » Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:50 am

I heard SGI is going PCIx for the next generation of graphics which is suppose to be a higher bandwidth bus (\me = not really knowing what I'm talking about, all PC heritage stuff is terra incongita to me).

Brombear, is there something I can try on the Prism that you would expect to be broken using ATI drivers?

BTW, SGI just upgraded us to the new SuSe Linux Pro Pack which has the real-time extensions. I need to get into it, but I did notice that KDE is now the default desktop rather than Gnome (which fixed my window drag "stickiness" issue) and that there are options at login to immediate go into KDE/GNOME with OpenGL Multipipe managing the pipes (kinda nice!).

Last comment: At $20K/yr support on the big systems, if the stinkin' graphics drivers are broken, SGI better damn well fix them! ;)

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Unread postby Brombear » Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:52 am

squeen wrote:Brombear, is there something I can try on the Prism that you would expect to be broken using ATI drivers?


Hard to tell. There are some things that happen regularly. Our application vred has a keyboard shortcut to switch from windowed mode to fullscreen mode (ALT+Enter). After using that it happens from time to time that the graphics simply renders crap. From the programming point-of-view we try to avoid creating a new gfx context because it is an expensive operation (creation of mipmaps etc.) Works flawlessly on nvidia and 3dlabs.

Next bug is rendering tristrips in wireframe mode. Rendering is completely wrong.

No possibility to run multiple GL applications at the same time. The one started later always renders perfect the first one no longer.

The hardest is simplying crashing within rendering the first frame of a typical realworld model ... unfortunately I am not allowed to hand over that dataset.

Matthias
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Unread postby choza » Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:29 am

squeen wrote:I heard SGI is going PCIx for the next generation of graphics which is suppose to be a higher bandwidth bus (\me = not really knowing what I'm talking about, all PC heritage stuff is terra incongita to me).


i though PCI-x was left instead of PCI express (by major cards manufacturers) because of cost, there was a roadmap for PCI-x to add MHz to the thing (standards were 33/66/133 Mhz if i remember) higher bus speeds were the next ones, but that demanded more cost on the construction, one reason the path of the clock and other stuff (if you look at every pci card you will find a "snake" path, thats the clock one, from the socket to the clock pin there must be about 2.5 in but not sure the std distance)
PCI express works different, its more like a LAN, one of its benefits: allows higher speeds easier
strange SGI not using pci express


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