Do moderators/SGI themselves have a problem with selling miniatures of old workstations through Nekochan?

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Dodoid
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Do moderators/SGI themselves have a problem with selling miniatures of old workstations through Nekochan?

Unread postby Dodoid » Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:54 am

I have recently been working on a 3D printable miniature (quarter scale) Indigo which would contain an ARM SBC running Linux (likely an ODROID-C2). It's printing right now, and it seems to be going well, so I should at least be able to build one. I think some people here might like to buy these miniature systems (I saw one guy here who wanted to make a mini O2 as a media streamer, I might make other models if the Indigo turns out well), and I would be happy to make a few (four or five) to sell to those who wanted them. The question is whether roughly duplicating the plastics design (tall dark blue box with a curved front, door on middle right) of an old machine (which SGI no longer sells) and selling it here would be considered acceptable. If I were to print them and then add an SGI cube logo, would that cross the line? What about referring to the device as a "mini Indigo" or "mini SGI"? Or would the production run be small enough to completely fly under the radar without any issues? Would moderators be OK with demonstrating or promoting the device here if the actual sale occurred on a separate website?

This forum is understandably careful about intellectual property, so I wanted to ask moderators and the forum in general if they think this would be alright.

Here's a partially-done test print in the wrong color (I don't have Indigo-coloured filament yet)
2016-09-26.jpg
:Onyx: :O2000: :Fuel: :Octane: :Octane: :Octane: :O2: :O2: :Indigo2: :Indigo2: :Indy: :Indy:
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Re: Do moderators/SGI themselves have a problem with selling miniatures of old workstations through Nekochan?

Unread postby GL1zdA » Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:18 am

sgifanatic did something like that and no one protested.
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Re: Do moderators/SGI themselves have a problem with selling miniatures of old workstations through Nekochan?

Unread postby Dodoid » Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:20 am

GL1zdA wrote:sgifanatic did something like that and no one protested.


I did look into that, but I see no evidence that he sold them. He seemingly built only one and kept it, which is fine, but the real question here is whether SGI would want to stop the sale of such a device, and whether the moderators would allow it to be sold here.
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Re: Do moderators/SGI themselves have a problem with selling miniatures of old workstations through Nekochan?

Unread postby shorelineblvd » Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:32 am

I can assure you that SGI will not care one bit about it.

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Re: Do moderators/SGI themselves have a problem with selling miniatures of old workstations through Nekochan?

Unread postby Adrenaline » Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:55 pm

I'd be up for a couple for use with some RPI3s.
:Indigo: 33mhz R3k/48mb/XS24 :Indy: 150mhz R4400/256mb/XL24 :Fuel: 600mhz R14kA/2gb/V10 Image 8x1.4ghz Itanium 2/8GB :O3x08R: 32x600mhz R14kA/24GB :Tezro: 4x700mhz R16k/8GB/V12/DCD/SAS/FC/DM5 (2x) :O3x0: 4x700mhz R16k/4GB :PrismDT: 2x1.6ghz 8mb/12gb/SAS/2xFGL

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Re: Do moderators/SGI themselves have a problem with selling miniatures of old workstations through Nekochan?

Unread postby sgifanatic » Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:17 pm

Dodoid wrote:
GL1zdA wrote:sgifanatic did something like that and no one protested.


I did look into that, but I see no evidence that he sold them. He seemingly built only one and kept it, which is fine, but the real question here is whether SGI would want to stop the sale of such a device, and whether the moderators would allow it to be sold here.


I still have a dozen! I roughly calculated material + printer time and a few friends here sent cost + shipping. There wasn't a flood of interest, but I did this principally for myself, so it was fine. If you are doing this with commercial intent, you may consider that there likely won't be too many folks that will purchase. That said, take my opinion as one data point. You may have a different experience.

shorelineblvd wrote:I can assure you that SGI will not care one bit about it.


Agreed. And the design patent has expired... we had a pretty extensive discussion on the earlier SGI design patents a few years ago.
Last edited by foetz on Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: merged
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Re: Do moderators/SGI themselves have a problem with selling miniatures of old workstations through Nekochan?

Unread postby Dodoid » Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:36 pm

Adrenaline wrote:I'd be up for a couple for use with some RPI3s.


OK, it works with whatever SBC you want as long as it follows the Pi B+ form factor (this includes Pi B+, Pi 2, Pi 3, ODROID-C1, ODROID-C1+, ORDOID-C2, and UP Board as well as likely many others. Prototypes will use my ODROID-C1, but I hope to buy some C2s to put in the finalized computers. Please remember that it's far from finished. Though the printer is churning out test prints 24/7 and I am constantly designing new revisions, notable elements such as Indigo coloured plastic, PS/2 hardware for use with original SGI keyboards/mice, and cables to move ports that would be on the top of the device to the back are still underway. I don't want to rush this design, and I want the finished product to be a truly special device that serves both as a powerful ARM based computer and an homage to the SGIs of the past. I want the finished device to be something that Nekochanners can take out of the box and have the sense of unboxing something with the quality and appearance of a real SGI product, and then proudly display on their desk or next to their full size Indigo. Right now, it's a simple prototype with notable flaws (ex. The lid is too small and will need more clearance to fit the SBC), and it's not at that stage yet.


sgifanatic wrote:If you are doing this with commercial intent, you may consider that there likely won't be too many folks that will purchase. That said, take my opinion as one data point. You may have a different experience.

I do hope to make a small amount of profit from this, but prices won't be ridiculous (especially if you're just buying the plastic). That said, I expect most people will want to buy complete systems. The reason for this is that the ethernet and USB headers on the top of the ODROID/RPi are completely blocked by the top of the device, with only a few milimetres clearance. There will need to be some soldering, ribbon cables, mounting hardware, and more in order to get the ports in the right place. Selling this hardware as a "bring your own board" solution would likely entail quite few complaints from buyers who killed their boards with too much soldering heat or just couldn't figure out how it was supposed to work.
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Re: Do moderators/SGI themselves have a problem with selling miniatures of old workstations through Nekochan?

Unread postby Y888099 » Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:37 am

although it's an interesting project
I am afraid that the software side will be weak
for those who are not linux fans
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Re: Do moderators/SGI themselves have a problem with selling miniatures of old workstations through Nekochan?

Unread postby Dodoid » Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:21 am

Y888099 wrote:although it's an interesting project
I am afraid that the software side will be weak
for those who are not linux fans


I plan to make an optional IRIX-y Openbox theme (MaXX is X86 only) and maybe a Gambas Toolchest. It can probably also run FSV, a Linux clone of FSN. All the open source Nekoware software should be available for Linux, so the main issue will be real IRIX software like Shake, Flame, or Amazon Paint. Hopefully, you can either find Linux alternatives, or just use a real SGI. This is obviously not intended as a replacement for a real Indigo or any other SGI.


After a few issues with printing, design, etc, it's done (my mom sent these pictures). Once I get home, I will take it off the printer and assemble it with the other parts. Pictures of full device coming soon.

download_20160928_101711.jpg


download_20160928_101705.jpg
Last edited by foetz on Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: merged
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Re: Do moderators/SGI themselves have a problem with selling miniatures of old workstations through Nekochan?

Unread postby Adrenaline » Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:53 pm

Y888099 wrote:although it's an interesting project
I am afraid that the software side will be weak
for those who are not linux fans


Yes and no - I've been running Windows IoT on my RPI3s since April when I got back from the MS Build Conference. Pretty simple to get a UWP app up and running on it. I wrote a temperature monitoring UWP app with a REST service to upload temperatures and then a Windows Mobile 10 and Android app to view the data on my phone in a couple nights after work (source for all of that is on my GitHub).

I could throw together an "IRIX" like interface app to wrap common functions if there is interest (I did something similar on Windows Phone 8 a few years back).
:Indigo: 33mhz R3k/48mb/XS24 :Indy: 150mhz R4400/256mb/XL24 :Fuel: 600mhz R14kA/2gb/V10 Image 8x1.4ghz Itanium 2/8GB :O3x08R: 32x600mhz R14kA/24GB :Tezro: 4x700mhz R16k/8GB/V12/DCD/SAS/FC/DM5 (2x) :O3x0: 4x700mhz R16k/4GB :PrismDT: 2x1.6ghz 8mb/12gb/SAS/2xFGL

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Re: Do moderators/SGI themselves have a problem with selling miniatures of old workstations through Nekochan?

Unread postby Dodoid » Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:05 pm

Adrenaline wrote:
Y888099 wrote:although it's an interesting project
I am afraid that the software side will be weak
for those who are not linux fans


Yes and no - I've been running Windows IoT on my RPI3s since April when I got back from the MS Build Conference. Pretty simple to get a UWP app up and running on it. I wrote a temperature monitoring UWP app with a REST service to upload temperatures and then a Windows Mobile 10 and Android app to view the data on my phone in a couple nights after work (source for all of that is on my GitHub).

I could throw together an "IRIX" like interface app to wrap common functions if there is interest (I did something similar on Windows Phone 8 a few years back).


Are you referring to Linux or Win10 IoT? If possible Linux would be preferred due to better compatibility with multiple SBCs (ex. Pi has lots of hardware add-ons and a large community but lags behind in performance, ODROID is fast and cheap but not well known, UP Board is x86 but costs a lot), as almost every option can run Linux but Windows 10 IoT core is only available on select devices.
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Re: Do moderators/SGI themselves have a problem with selling miniatures of old workstations through Nekochan?

Unread postby Adrenaline » Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:28 pm

Dodoid wrote:
Adrenaline wrote:
Y888099 wrote:although it's an interesting project
I am afraid that the software side will be weak
for those who are not linux fans


Yes and no - I've been running Windows IoT on my RPI3s since April when I got back from the MS Build Conference. Pretty simple to get a UWP app up and running on it. I wrote a temperature monitoring UWP app with a REST service to upload temperatures and then a Windows Mobile 10 and Android app to view the data on my phone in a couple nights after work (source for all of that is on my GitHub).

I could throw together an "IRIX" like interface app to wrap common functions if there is interest (I did something similar on Windows Phone 8 a few years back).


Are you referring to Linux or Win10 IoT? If possible Linux would be preferred due to better compatibility with multiple SBCs (ex. Pi has lots of hardware add-ons and a large community but lags behind in performance, ODROID is fast and cheap but not well known, UP Board is x86 but costs a lot), as almost every option can run Linux but Windows 10 IoT core is only available on select devices.


I was talking about Win10 IoT. Coupled with a GrovePi it was pretty painless to get a couple sensors up and running (though there were issues with the polling rates on the higher end sensors getting accurate sensor readings - had to switch to C++ on it for the humidity sensors). I can see how Linux is definitely preferred for most folks though especially on here. I'm a C# developer so my goto was Win10 IoT.
:Indigo: 33mhz R3k/48mb/XS24 :Indy: 150mhz R4400/256mb/XL24 :Fuel: 600mhz R14kA/2gb/V10 Image 8x1.4ghz Itanium 2/8GB :O3x08R: 32x600mhz R14kA/24GB :Tezro: 4x700mhz R16k/8GB/V12/DCD/SAS/FC/DM5 (2x) :O3x0: 4x700mhz R16k/4GB :PrismDT: 2x1.6ghz 8mb/12gb/SAS/2xFGL

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Re: Do moderators/SGI themselves have a problem with selling miniatures of old workstations through Nekochan?

Unread postby Dodoid » Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:35 pm

Adrenaline wrote:
Dodoid wrote:
Adrenaline wrote:
Y888099 wrote:although it's an interesting project
I am afraid that the software side will be weak
for those who are not linux fans


Yes and no - I've been running Windows IoT on my RPI3s since April when I got back from the MS Build Conference. Pretty simple to get a UWP app up and running on it. I wrote a temperature monitoring UWP app with a REST service to upload temperatures and then a Windows Mobile 10 and Android app to view the data on my phone in a couple nights after work (source for all of that is on my GitHub).

I could throw together an "IRIX" like interface app to wrap common functions if there is interest (I did something similar on Windows Phone 8 a few years back).


Are you referring to Linux or Win10 IoT? If possible Linux would be preferred due to better compatibility with multiple SBCs (ex. Pi has lots of hardware add-ons and a large community but lags behind in performance, ODROID is fast and cheap but not well known, UP Board is x86 but costs a lot), as almost every option can run Linux but Windows 10 IoT core is only available on select devices.


I was talking about Win10 IoT. Coupled with a GrovePi it was pretty painless to get a couple sensors up and running (though there were issues with the polling rates on the higher end sensors getting accurate sensor readings - had to switch to C++ on it for the humidity sensors). I can see how Linux is definitely preferred for most folks though especially on here. I'm a C# developer so my goto was Win10 IoT.


OK. I think we should probably stick to Linux for better compatibility across SBCs.
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Re: Do moderators/SGI themselves have a problem with selling miniatures of old workstations through Nekochan?

Unread postby dexter1 » Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:25 am

The moderators are currently discussing the question in the forum topic title. When we have heard everybody's opinion and have reached consensus we will post an answer.
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