HP(e) buys SGI for US$275MM

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Re: HP(e) buys SGI for US$275MM

Unread postby SAQ » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:55 pm

uunix wrote:Ford Aircraft carriers... hmmmmm

Ford_Sierra_front_20081218.jpg

Radical..


Nah - you should have a photo of a Crown Vic with a bunch of drones on the hood and trunk.
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Re: HP(e) buys SGI for US$275MM

Unread postby uunix » Sun Sep 25, 2016 1:39 pm

SAQ wrote:
uunix wrote:Ford Aircraft carriers... hmmmmm

Ford_Sierra_front_20081218.jpg

Radical..


Nah - you should have a photo of a Crown Vic with a bunch of drones on the hood and trunk.

I had to google that SAQ, seems it's a Ford Granada, with a fscking big ass boot. (boot=trunk).
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Re: HP(e) buys SGI for US$275MM

Unread postby Intuition » Sun Sep 25, 2016 5:34 pm

Wow, I missed quite a bit since last I checked this thread.

Long reply....


Many good and valid points made all around by everyone.

---- APPLE-------- Prosumer/Consumer

First off is the way Apple has strayed away from the real Prosumer market.

Final Cut used to be considered a real contender to Avid. There were Mac Pros being sold at a fraction of the cost of an Avid Media composer for years. This was really a big leap for Apple in moving Mac Pros.

Mac pros being a tower that was semi modular the way an SGI used to be. You could open the panel and slide the different parts out easily and upgrade ram or CPUs and swap hard drives with little effort.

Now you have these little Ashtray/Trash can Macs that are really neat to behold on a desktop but aren't really practical for a prosumer.

They aren't practical because they are a premium for mediocre performance at best.

I can get a 32 core (64 thread) Dual xeon with 64+GB ram for well under 8K now that has a very nice Nvidia and a couple SSD drives.

The Mac pro at 8K is still 12 cores. That is ridiculous. That isn't prosumer. It is Apple being indulgent. Just like the memory on the idevices. A ridiculous premium for marginal gain. I don't know as many facilities pushing their Final Cut edit bays as much as I used to see between 2006-2009.

-----Boxx---- as mentioned... great integrators...but,,,,

Boxx is still quite expensive but I will admit that their integration is quite attractive to those who do not want to venture with pairing up optimal combinations on New Egg like I have for my last three computers over the last decade.


Building your own at Newegg or similar

I am still using at home a nine year old dual quad cores Xeons (8 cores in all) and it does everything I need quite well. Originally purchased as a 3D workstation for Maya/Softimage rendering Vray/Renderman/Mental Ray freelance at home.

Mostly a Pro Tools machine these days but occasionally will be my @ home 3D machine when I have time for my animation project.

I haven't bought a new computer for a few reasons. Even though a generic single quad i7 is probably faster by itself than my Xeon 8 core setup it isn't marginally so. For what I use the 8 core for I could get some gains but I was waiting. Year after year. Yawning at the prices of 6 core/ 8 core / 12 core / and now finally 16 core procs from Intel in their Xeon line.

I told myself. I didn't want t upgrade until it was more than double the performance in cores than my old 8 core. It is now nine years later.

In 2006 getting a xp64 setup on dual dual core was $4500.
In 2007 my xp64 dual quad core was $3200. Later updated to win7 for Pro-tools.

---- Computer innovation stagnation------------

The primary use of these machines though was for VFX 3D graphics with Maya/Softimage/3dsmax etc.

I haven't upgraded because the jump from 2006 to 2007 was double.. The jump from 2007 to 2016 has been very very very slightly incremental at premium prices.

It is like everyone looked at Apple slowly releasing things that could have been updated far sooner and better for the sake of gradual market saturation and long term profits.

-----------VFX then and now------HP-----SGI ----LINUX etc?

The needs of the VFX community were niche in the 90s. Yet, 3d graphics are now a world wide standard. There are 3d artists across the globe.

HP just bought Rackable Systems under the banner of SGI. I imagine Rackable benefited from buying SGI as far as technology goes for the sake of their super computer systems.

Do you think HP is interested in rebuilding the SGI brand? I doubt it. Whatever remnants of SGI, meaning the original Silicon Graphics that we all knew back in the 90s is probably gone for good now.

But, I love the idea of someone trying to do what SGI did in the first place.

Creating an OS and hardware that could be ahead of the curve enough to justify its existence beyond a souped up PC or Mac.

At this point I think you would have to specialize in a Linux distro based on Fedora, CentOS, etc that could be setup to do what an end user needs with quite a bit of automation in terms of 3D graphic programs. Yet there is the fact that 3DSMax is Windows only. Like Photoshop or Zbrush. Perhaps the usual WINE for one offs like photoshop/Zbrush etc.

A repository application "get all' that has all the 3d applications (Maya, Houdini, Softimage, modo etc) and takes care of all the possible license server setup issues one normally gets into. Takes care of all the usual render farm/render node management setups one gets into (deadline etc). And takes care of WIN emulation for Adobe/Zbrush etc.

Something that, as mentioned before in this thread, pairs down linux to a bare minimum and keeps it VFX focused, or focused on what the machine is being purchased and setup for.

Setting up a Linux machine isn't easy compared to a Mac or WIN machine as far as most users are concerned. My current setup at work has VNC so I can login remote desktop to any desktop here or even the render nodes. But I can see a Linux distro specialized to automate much better than most Linux distros do.

Designing a computer case to be modular isn't easy but it isn't crazy difficult either. The chassis I have here is setup with the quad SSD cartidge bays so I can do Linux image builds to test things before we clone them and move them to other workstations so each project has a unified build that makes sure all artists/designers have the same tools and versions.

----At the end of it all ----------------------today-----------2016

I am rarely excited by new computer tech now days. Have't been since 2007. Nothing seems like a jump forward. It feels like we are crawling along because slow incremental releases are how companies are securing their long term profit stability.

I am here at work today. Simulating Realflow on a CentOS machine with 32 threads. I would have thought I'd be in the 128 core setups by the time 2016 rolled around if you would have asked me back in 2007 given that in two years we went from dual procs to dual dual cores to dual quads (2005 to 2007). When the simulation finishes I take it into Maya and begin setting everything up for a Vray centric render that will go an a farm of 16 core machines.

I am having dreams of systems in a parallel (no pun intended) universe where SGI didn't go bankrupt and I could simulate this Rflow sim near realtime and then render it much faster as well.

That is what I'd like to see. Someone give me that kind of innovation. I want to art direct these sims and renders much better instead of cut corners to optimize the sim and render farm time.

I don't think HP bought SGI to resurrect SGI as a VFX computing company. I think they wanted to absorb the super computer tech into their own.

Ah well. One can dream
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Re: HP(e) buys SGI for US$275MM

Unread postby vishnu » Sun Sep 25, 2016 10:22 pm

Intuition wrote:-----Boxx---- as mentioned... great integrators...but,,,,

Boxx is still quite expensive but I will admit that their integration is quite attractive to those who do not want to venture with pairing up optimal combinations on New Egg like I have for my last three computers over the last decade.

I'm still using my circa-2005 Tyan S2668, still feels just as zippy as the HP Z's we use at work, but with regard to Boxx it looks like these guys are doing some pretty interesting stuff: http://www.orbitalcomputers.com/
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World domination! Or something...

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Re: HP(e) buys SGI for US$275MM

Unread postby Trippynet » Mon Sep 26, 2016 1:34 am

Intuition wrote:I am rarely excited by new computer tech now days. Have't been since 2007. Nothing seems like a jump forward. It feels like we are crawling along because slow incremental releases are how companies are securing their long term profit stability.


I agree entirely. Up until around 2007, new technology releases were revolutionary (a lot of the time) rather then evolutionary, and the rate of performance increase each year was significant. Before 2007, if you bought a PC that was high end, you could be sure that it'd be pretty much obsolete after 3-4 years. You'd be there with a Pentium 133, whereas new PCs would have Pentium III 500s. So you'd buy a PIII 500, and 3-4 years later the top end machines would be Athlon 2000s. Then along came DDR memory, SATA, 64bit x86, then PCI Express and SSDs. The rate of performance increase and of new technology introductions was relentless.

The same went with SGI machines. Each new model brought major improvements, new ideas, and a lot more performance (well, up until the very end anyway).

And now, it's slowed to a crawl. My current laptop is 6 years old. If I were saying this 10 years ago, a 6 year old machine would be hopelessly slow and outdated in pretty much every way. Yet now, I still have a 2.6GHz Core i5 (admittedly first gen), 8GB of DDR3 memory and an SSD. And if I replace it, I'll get maybe a 2.8GHz Core i5 which does maybe 50% more work per clock, 8GB of slightly faster DDR4 RAM, and a slightly faster SSD. Hence, a new machine which isn't even twice as fast - and that's 6 years later! Meanwhile at work, we're refreshing 3 year old laptops with replacements that are maybe only 20% faster.

For someone like me that grew up loving computers of the 90s and 2000s, the lack of innovation and improvement these days - especially combined with a number of components that have actually gone backwards IMO (screens, trackpads and keyboards for example) means that most modern stuff is just boring really. You just can't get excited about new releases of stuff when they're hardly any better than the previous release.
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Re: HP(e) buys SGI for US$275MM

Unread postby dexter1 » Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:25 am

If one is considering High Performance Computing, there is definitely recent progress on CPU architecture and features. Looking at the Intel roadmap, in 2014 the Haswell CPUs were introduced with AVX2 (vector) and FMA (fused multiply add) instructions. This alone added significant speedup to my Finite Element programs, just by recompiling the same code.
Of course MADD was already part of MIPSIV instruction set back in 1995, unfused for the R8000 and fused for all other MIPSIV capable processors...

But i agree when not doing science, PC performance looks very similar compared to my experience 6 years ago. At least we now have overpriced GPU cards which can do the same render/particlesim/neuralnetwork work we used to do on CPU's added with a much higher development and product cost :P
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Re: HP(e) buys SGI for US$275MM

Unread postby uunix » Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:44 am

Trippynet wrote:
Intuition wrote:I am rarely excited by new computer tech now days. Have't been since 2007. Nothing seems like a jump forward. It feels like we are crawling along because slow incremental releases are how companies are securing their long term profit stability.


I agree entirely. Up until around 2007, new technology releases were revolutionary (a lot of the time) rather then evolutionary, and the rate of performance increase each year was significant. Before 2007, if you bought a PC that was high end, you could be sure that it'd be pretty much obsolete after 3-4 years. You'd be there with a Pentium 133, whereas new PCs would have Pentium III 500s. So you'd buy a PIII 500, and 3-4 years later the top end machines would be Athlon 2000s. Then along came DDR memory, SATA, 64bit x86, then PCI Express and SSDs. The rate of performance increase and of new technology introductions was relentless.


Yep, third-ed.. I can't even be bothered to look around PC-World or the apple shop anymore.
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Re: HP(e) buys SGI for US$275MM

Unread postby josehill » Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:17 pm

Trippynet wrote:Up until around 2007, new technology releases were revolutionary (a lot of the time) rather then evolutionary, and the rate of performance increase each year was significant.


I think the revolutionary thing that has happened since then is the rise of the cloud for HPC. My roles haven't been as "hands-on" in the last decade as they were in the late 90s and early 00s, so while I understood the theoretical value of services like Amazon EC2, I didn't really "get it" until I was in a situation where it was a Friday and a client without much in the way of computing resources or know-how needed a thousand CPUs crunching away on a critical problem by Monday, and there was no one there to get it set up besides me. I spent a few hours figuring out what exactly I needed to do, but once I did that, it took literally just a few minutes to build the environment and start the compute job, all at less than the cost of a high end PC. I wasn't expecting it, but when I verified that the job was running after such little time, cost, and effort, I felt a rush similar to the rush I felt when I sat down in front of my first Indy. Even better, the job finished on Sunday, so when I delivered actual results on Monday, rather than simply a running system, I looked like a hero.

Of course, that doesn't really help if you're not working on jobs that are highly parallelizable, but if your jobs are, the last few years have been transformational, at least on the services level.

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Re: HP(e) buys SGI for US$275MM

Unread postby SAQ » Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:52 am

uunix wrote:
SAQ wrote:
uunix wrote:Ford Aircraft carriers... hmmmmm

Ford_Sierra_front_20081218.jpg

Radical..


Nah - you should have a photo of a Crown Vic with a bunch of drones on the hood and trunk.

I had to google that SAQ, seems it's a Ford Granada, with a fscking big ass boot. (boot=trunk).


Bigger - it's the "downmarket" version of the Lincoln Town Car, 5.38 meters long, 2 meters wide and 15 liters/100km gas mileage. Used to be big over here for police and taxis until gas prices started going up. With all that there still isn't enough rear seat legroom for me to sit more comfortably than my ancient Volvo 740.
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Re: HP(e) buys SGI for US$275MM

Unread postby jan-jaap » Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:27 am

OK, this seems to have happened 3 weeks ago, but I didn't see it mentioned here:

SUSE news mailing wrote:Micro Focus continues consolidation, adds HPE software division in $8.8bn transaction

https://www.suse.com/docrep/documents/d ... rce=Eloqua

I guess that means the ownership of former Silicon Graphics' software (e.g. IRIX, CXFS) changed hands again? :roll:
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Re: HP(e) buys SGI for US$275MM

Unread postby Dodoid » Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:45 am

jan-jaap wrote:OK, this seems to have happened 3 weeks ago, but I didn't see it mentioned here:

SUSE news mailing wrote:Micro Focus continues consolidation, adds HPE software division in $8.8bn transaction

https://www.suse.com/docrep/documents/d ... rce=Eloqua

I guess that means the ownership of former Silicon Graphics' software (e.g. IRIX, CXFS) changed handles again? :roll:


Hey, that means we have a new unsuspecting employee to drown in emails about open sourcing IRIX. :twisted:
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Re: HP(e) buys SGI for US$275MM

Unread postby dexter1 » Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:55 am

jan-jaap wrote:OK, this seems to have happened 3 weeks ago, but I didn't see it mentioned here:

SUSE news mailing wrote:Micro Focus continues consolidation, adds HPE software division in $8.8bn transaction

https://www.suse.com/docrep/documents/d ... rce=Eloqua

I guess that means the ownership of former Silicon Graphics' software (e.g. IRIX, CXFS) changed handles again? :roll:

They only mention SGI in:

Micro Focus Transactions wrote: ... HPE has looked at both additions and divestitures to its portfolio – it shed its Enterprise Services business to CSC in April, and in August it acquired Silicon Graphics to gain more of a foothold in the HPC sector. The separated HPE’s annual revenue will shrink from $52bn down to approximately $28bn following the Enterprise Services and software division divestitures.

So Micro Focus bought the software part form HPE, and the Enterprise service stuff was transferred to CSC, leaving HP with the "pure" HPC hardware part and some glue software.
i've glanced over the document to see what software is mentioned in the acquisition and this is what i could find:

Micro Focus Transactions wrote:Coming over from HPE are: IT operations management (Service Anywhere, Cloud Orchestration, Data Center Automation), application delivery management (ALM from Mercury and the AppPulse mobile application monitoring tools), enterprise security products (ArcSight, Fortify, Atalla Security and Voltage Security), information management and governance (Digital Safe, Data Protector), and big data/analytics (IDOL, Vertica, Haven OnDemand).
The last category includes the Autonomy assets, namely IDOL, eDiscover and archiving. (Other parts of Autonomy, including Interwoven, were sold off to OpenText back in April). Haven is a big-data platform including Hadoop, Autonomy, Vertica and Enterprise Security.
Systems management tools (primarily OneView) and the Helion Cloud Platform are staying at HPE.

Unsurprisingly, no mention of SGI...
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Re: HP(e) buys SGI for US$275MM

Unread postby josehill » Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:34 pm

Dodoid wrote:Hey, that means we have a new unsuspecting employee to drown in emails about open sourcing IRIX. :twisted:


I think we have the thread winner, right there! :lol:

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Re: HP(e) buys SGI for US$275MM

Unread postby cesss » Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:29 pm

Is it possible to know who owns IRIX in this moment? I'm serious about this question, the chances in any open source possibility could depend on that question. Is it possible to answer that question with legal certainty?

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Re: HP(e) buys SGI for US$275MM

Unread postby johnnym » Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:41 pm

jan-jaap wrote:OK, this seems to have happened 3 weeks ago, but I didn't see it mentioned here:

SUSE news mailing wrote:Micro Focus continues consolidation, adds HPE software division in $8.8bn transaction

https://www.suse.com/docrep/documents/d ... rce=Eloqua

I guess that means the ownership of former Silicon Graphics' software (e.g. IRIX, CXFS) changed hands again? :roll:


Anybody noticed the title of the PDF: "microsoft_continues_consolidation_adds_hpe_software_division[...]"? Har, Har, Har! :D
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