Silicon Graphics Files For Chapter 11 Protection

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hamei
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Unread postby hamei » Mon May 08, 2006 10:51 pm

josehill wrote:By coincidence, the May 22, 2206 issue of Forbes has the following article about Sun (emphasis mine):
Sun Down
The best possible outcome would be a miraculous rebound on innovation, in the manner of Apple Computer ...[/b]

There's some great analysis- "innovation, in the manner of Apple Computer ..." Pretty cases and flashy desktop graphics. Wow. Now that's innovative.

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lisp
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Unread postby lisp » Tue May 09, 2006 12:04 am

hamei wrote:
josehill wrote:By coincidence, the May 22, 2206 issue of Forbes has the following article about Sun (emphasis mine):
Sun Down
The best possible outcome would be a miraculous rebound on innovation, in the manner of Apple Computer ...[/b]

There's some great analysis- "innovation, in the manner of Apple Computer ..." Pretty cases and flashy desktop graphics. Wow. Now that's innovative.


Hmm, you seem to be forgetting not only their ease of use, but also their joy of use. Then there's the vast range of incredibly powerful libraries and APIs they come with for free.

Indeed, your statements show just how ignorant you are - in fact, pretty much the exact same brand of ignorance as demonstrated by SGIs management...
--
lisa

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lisp
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Unread postby lisp » Tue May 09, 2006 12:07 am

foetz wrote:do you always only read the bad stuff?
this is also from the press release:


Yeah, because their past reorganisations have been oh so successful!

The simple, plain, fact of the matter is they've already sold off most of their worthwhile assets. When you've got practically no R&D, it doesn't matter how you're organised if no one wants what you've got for sale.
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lisa

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mapesdhs
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Unread postby mapesdhs » Tue May 09, 2006 1:22 am

SpaceTaxi wrote:
> SGI has not only made some pretty poor strategic decisions over the years (hindsight
> is 20/20), ...

That's putting it mildly. O2+? A joke. VW320/540 - nice idea, badly marketed. No speed
gfx for Octane/2 despite promises. Killed off O2 because of R7K/350 fiasco (so what
happened to R9K?). No speed solution for Onyx until Onyx4 (too late). Didn't bother
to update base technologies for Octane2. No Gbit in Fuel. Low RAM limit in Fuel (should
have been at least 8GB). And so on...

And these aren't just my personal opinions btw. I heard these things from numerous
companies I spoke to, in all sorts of markets.


> ... And after so many promises of a turn-around, you have to suspect that their sales,
> marketing and management people were just completely incompetent.[/quote]

Indeed, eg. they still haven't announced either the R16K/1GHz (16MB L2) for Tezro or
the 16K/900MHz for Fuel, even though both have been available for more than a year,
and no mention of them on the SGI workstations page.

I know at least one company which has a quad-1GHz Tezro; really daft part is, there's
no upgrade marketing code for the 1GHz AFAIK - if you want one, you have to buy the
whole system.


One interesting point though:

"SGI's non-U.S. subsidiaries, including European, Canadian, Mexican, South American
and Asia Pacific subsidiaries were not included in the filing; will continue their business
operations without supervision from the U.S. courts; and will not be subject to the
requirements of chapter 11."

That's something I guess.

Ian.
I'm working on a charitable PC build for the Learn Engineering YouTube channel. Please PM/email/call if you'd like to contribute!
Donations of any kind of item I can sell to provide funds are also most welcome.
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hamei
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Unread postby hamei » Tue May 09, 2006 1:37 am

lisp wrote: Hmm, you seem to be forgetting not only their ease of use, but also their joy of use. Then there's the vast range of incredibly powerful libraries and APIs they come with for free.

Not at all. I would never say that Apple computers are not useful, nice, friendly, happy, great, wonderful, or whatever. I even talked my Mom into buying one. But what they have not been for at least the past ten years is "innovative."

Indeed, your statements show just how ignorant you are - in fact, pretty much the exact same brand of ignorance as demonstrated by SGIs management...

Quite likely on the ignorant part :-) But at least I hope it's a different variety of ignorance than SGI management has perfected !

(Btw, I don't think SGI management has been ignorant at all. My guess is that management has done fine for itself. Greedy is more likely than ignorant.)

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R-ten-K
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Unread postby R-ten-K » Tue May 09, 2006 2:28 am

Hum, I believe in the past 10 years Apple did:

Standarize USB and bluetooth
one of the first implementors of PCI-X, hypertransport
FireWire
moved from CRTs and standarised on LCDs
iPod/iTunes
first widescreen laptop
first laptop with a touchpad
one of the earlier DVD burning solutions
one of the earlier vendors to offer gigabyte ethernet
zeroconf (bonjour)
OSX
Quartz
Cocoa
Core*
displayPDF
And pretty much a trend setter in industrial design regarding computing devices...

that seems to be pretty innovative IMHO, of course not as innovative as OS/2, but nothing can compare to DOS+, errr OS/2 when it comes to innovation!

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Unread postby squeen » Tue May 09, 2006 3:33 am

Small correction, REACT is ported to Altix/Prism.

Also, ran a few test on the Prism recently. It's damn fast. Still, I can't stand the user environment though, so I remotely log in from IRIX boxes. Lack of good man pages and other documentation on SuSe also blows.

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josehill
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Unread postby josehill » Tue May 09, 2006 6:54 am

mapesdhs wrote:Indeed, eg. they still haven't announced either the R16K/1GHz (16MB L2) for Tezro or the 16K/900MHz for Fuel, even though both have been available for more than a year, and no mention of them on the SGI workstations page.

I know at least one company which has a quad-1GHz Tezro; really daft part is, there's no upgrade marketing code for the 1GHz AFAIK - if you want one, you have to buy the whole system.

In the medical field, that is known as malpractice...

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SpaceTaxi
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Unread postby SpaceTaxi » Tue May 09, 2006 7:11 am

hamei wrote:But what they have not been for at least the past ten years is "innovative."


Apple's innovation is their product design, consistent "cool" branding of themselves and great marketing. All of which came together under Steve Jobs return as CEO. I think he is the real reason that Apple is back from the brink.

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Unread postby Alien » Tue May 09, 2006 7:13 am

R-ten-K wrote:Hum, I believe in the past 10 years Apple did:

Standarize USB and bluetooth
one of the first implementors of PCI-X, hypertransport

Being "one of the first" or "the first to standardise on" isn't innovation. It's progressive, but not innovative. Bluetooth is a Nokia(?) innovation, USB and PCI-X are Intel's, and HyperTransport is AMD's.
FireWire

Granted.
moved from CRTs and standarised on LCDs

See above.
iPod/iTunes

Apple were hardly the first to market either MP3/audio player software, or portable MP3 players. They managed to create a hype around theirs, though, but that's not innovation, that's marketing.
first widescreen laptop

Again, see above.
first laptop with a touchpad

The PowerBook 500 series, 1994. So that's a little longer back than the last 10 years. In any case, I don't think the trackpad was an Apple innovation.
one of the earlier DVD burning solutions
one of the earlier vendors to offer gigabyte ethernet
zeroconf (bonjour)
OSX
Quartz
Cocoa
Core*
displayPDF
And pretty much a trend setter in industrial design regarding computing devices...[/quote]
More of the same.
that seems to be pretty innovative IMHO, of course not as innovative as OS/2, but nothing can compare to DOS+, errr OS/2 when it comes to innovation!

Try SGI, back in the olden days. Apple have done plenty of innovative things, mostly on human-computer interaction and (graphics) workflow integration. But on the hardware technology front, they're not really one of the innovators.

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Unread postby squeen » Tue May 09, 2006 8:29 am

Just got a letter from SGI letting me know that the Chapter 11 does not imply an interuption in support services or new product devlopment, but mainly a way to shed legacy debt.

Believe what you will---I'm an optimistic fool so I'll take it at face value.

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Unread postby dj » Tue May 09, 2006 9:15 am

squeen wrote:Small correction, REACT is ported to Altix/Prism.

Also, ran a few test on the Prism recently. It's damn fast. Still, I can't stand the user environment though, so I remotely log in from IRIX boxes. Lack of good man pages and other documentation on SuSe also blows.


There's always info-pages. :)

Having firsthand experience with SuSE, I have to agree, it also makes me ill. But then, so do most linux distros. Usually because they try and be too many things at once and seem to have a fixation with catering to the lowest common denominator.

I never understood why SGI didn't come out with their own linux distro. Something lightweight (4Dwm), wifh good development tools (hi, man pages), and aimed at the freakin' _technical_ market. I'm sure high-end software companies would have loved a standardized linux in '02-'03 that they could have qualified their products on. And I'm not talking RedHat 7.2. Raise of hands, who would rather have used SGI linux vs. RedHat/SuSE, and could almost have stomached buying SGI branded pcs to run it on?

If they had done this and qualified Maya (which they owned!), Shake, etc. on it, I'm sure they would still have a place in the FX market.

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Unread postby zahal » Tue May 09, 2006 9:40 am

foetz wrote:do you always only read the bad stuff?
this is also from the press release:

Code: Select all

The Company expects to file its Plan of Reorganization reflecting the agreement shortly, and to emerge from Chapter 11 within six months.


Sure, that's good news -but not realistic news. How are they going to emerge from the ashes in six months, if they have been unable to do so in six years? Do they have a new secret killer processor up their sleeves that will obliterate the opteron and itanium??? A new killer framebuffer??? A new killer OS??? Something???
Sitting in a room.....thinkin' shit up. :evil:

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Unread postby Rev.Bubba » Tue May 09, 2006 9:47 am

mapesdhs wrote:Indeed, eg. they still haven't announced either the R16K/1GHz (16MB L2) for Tezro or
the 16K/900MHz for Fuel, even though both have been available for more than a year,
and no mention of them on the SGI workstations page.


They actually have posted a small mention of it on their site. Look for the remarketed and recertified products. There is a unit available with these specs. It is nice to see that it took that to find any mention of a R16K/1GHz proc on the site.

Also, why was this not front page news on Nekochan.net. The Blender post is getting a little old. At least with this news we may find these beefy old systems in our hands soon considering the price drops in the past couple of days on the remarketed site.

Cheers,
Rev.
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Unread postby nekonoko » Tue May 09, 2006 9:52 am

Rev.Bubba wrote:Also, why was this not front page news on Nekochan.net. The Blender post is getting a little old. At least with this news we may find these beefy old systems in our hands soon considering the price drops in the past couple of days on the remarketed site.


Because I'm not really into the "Nekochan Net - Where we watch SGI circle the drain!" concept. If I were to post every depressing piece of news SGI has had the past five years on the blog the interesting hobbyist stuff would be buried 100 to 1. The forums are good for this sort of thing :)
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