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Unread postPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 11:46 am 
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Hi,
Today the Power Supply of my Fuel died. I found this page http://www.nekochan.net/wiki/Fuel_PSU_repair, but I cannot build the converter cables myself.
Could anyone on Nekochan can do this work for me to use them with an ATX power supply? Of course I will pay for the parts and the work.
I am using my Fuel a lot, so to buy a used Power Supply is not a solution for me.

Thank you very much.


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Unread postPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 12:21 pm 
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I'm pretty sure you're in Europe, but: Confirming your location might help.

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Unread postPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 9:13 pm 
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You are right, I am in Athens


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Unread postPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 12:22 am 
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Hi, first it's the wrong forum since it's not related to sale of any kind...

I'm the second person who managed to build the ATX converter with instructions and some extra improvements - mine generates fake PSU FAN signal that doesn't require turning the env monitoring off.

Honestly, it would be quite an expensive to make one for you, parts alone cost me some 30-40$ if not more (but I paid retail prices, didn't have time to look for good deals), (I bought an ATX extender which needs to be taken apart - I broke 3 or 4 needles whilst doing so), a few cables need to be crimped again with new pins (some signals require customization). Including Soldering the generator, testing etc It's at least 2-3 hours of manual work and I wouldn't have time for that at least until end of June... If I had to put a price on in it -- would be somewhere near 100$. And that's not to rip you off, it's to offset all the time and effort put into making a piece . You might just want to buy a Fuel, keep the PSU and sell the remains - might be cheaper and faster.

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Unread postPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 4:35 am 
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But spoofing env monitoring is unnecessary... you can also just turn it off.

Quote:
bought an ATX extender which needs to be taken apart - I broke 3 or 4 needles whilst doing so), a few cables need to be crimped again with new pins
an easier way is to just cut the wire and use crimp connectors to re-connect them.

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Unread postPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 6:06 am 
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guardian452 wrote:
But spoofing env monitoring is unnecessary... you can also just turn it off.


Well, env monitoring has pretty good purpose of preventing your computer from dying should something fail - especially with ATX PSU in place, it's crucial to keep the voltage monitoring etc. This is a personal decision though.

guardian452 wrote:
an easier way is to just cut the wire and use crimp connectors to re-connect them.

Maybe easier but you need new connectors (which also takes time to crimp again etc etc) - this is not why I bought ready-made extension cable to cut them off.
If I were to make the cable again I would invest in Molex pin remover tool though - it takes too much effort to use needles even with practice.

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Unread postPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 7:44 am 
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You don't necessarily need new connectors; you could cut the wires and crimp them together with butt splices or end splices.

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Unread postPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:05 am 
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First of all, thank you for your posts.

kubatyszko wrote:
Hi, first it's the wrong forum since it's not related to sale of any kind...


Sorry, it was my mistake, now it seems it has been transferred to the right section.

kubatyszko: as I mentioned earlier, I prefer the converter cables for both reasons:

a. I do not want to buy a used Fuel power supply as they are expensive and may not be reliable if used for the last 8 years :-)
b. with those cables, I can use an ATX power supply

Also, the needed parts for converter cables are not so expensive, as you said, although, they need some work therefore I cannot do it myself.
I just asked if someone is familiar with these things and can do this work for me. I will pay for parts and work.

robespierre: I need this kind of solution, as I am unable to cut/redirect the ATX cabling to the appropriate BTX cabling pin-out.


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Unread postPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 12:06 pm 
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Maybe is a stupid question but, what happened to your PSU?. Is it burnt or is it dead because it stopped working?. Repairing it could be very difficult, but also very simple. It depends on the problem.

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Unread postPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 4:20 pm 
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[[C|-|E]] wrote:
Maybe is a stupid question but, what happened to your PSU?. Is it burnt or is it dead because it stopped working?. Repairing it could be very difficult, but also very simple. It depends on the problem.


If it's burnt or dead it usually in most cases stops working :P.

Looking at the symptoms people including me have, he would have to be extremely lucky if only a fuse blew up.

In my NMB PSU the whole PIC microcontroller broke - it drains voltage on one of the pins and won't hot-start, there is no source code and no easy way to replace it - even my magician friend said it was a pita to desolder it for testing...
I'm actually in contact with Minebea in Japan (the original manufacturer) but they have long discontinued PSU business and their technical department is not exactly responsive to my request for source code or at least schematics.

Reverse-engineering the PIC would be way beyond my abilities, I looked at the specs, and too many pins are two-way or have configurable behavior to reliably replicate the chip, also cloning the PIC would require desoldering a working one (who would do that...) and attempting to rip the eeprom of - if the code is protected (the default) there are intrusive ways - filing the casing with tools, finding the protection fuses with a microscope and then unlocking them physically - a little too much hassle if an ATX can be simply used :)

Looks like ATX + set of cables is the future of Fuels :(

dir_marillion, even though you could use ATX - it's not that simple yet, you'd need to find a proper PSU with the right specs - most of current ATX PSU's have a lot of power on the 12V rails (one or more for PCI-express), and lack the power on 3.3V. This should not be very hard though, there is a thread where we discussed the same with smj. http://forums.nekochan.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16725574&start=75

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Unread postPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 6:53 am 
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My power supply is dead.
I cannot ensure that it is not a capacitor problem, but I would like to replace it with the proper ATX power supply and the converter cables.


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Unread postPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 6:55 pm 
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robespierre wrote:
You don't necessarily need new connectors; you could cut the wires and crimp them together with butt splices or end splices.


Yep, cut off the old connector from the dead PSU and attach it to the ATX PSU after you cut off that connector. Not nearly as nice as your solution, Kubatyszko, but doable.

My guess is that you won't hear back from the OEM because it's too much trouble for them to figure out what parts they licensed from someone else (potentially under NDA), and whether there's a NDA with SGI, or Toshiba, or ConAgra that would be in force. IP "makes the world go round" now, but it's sure an annoyance in many cases, ain't it?

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Unread postPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 11:49 pm 
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Hi SAQ,
Yes, if I couldn't find the ATX converter cables, I will have to cut-off the old connector from the dead PSU and will attach it to the ATX PSU.
This seems to be the most possible scenario ...

I have some registered programs which work with this specific main-board ??, if you mean this.
That's why I do not want to replace the internal parts of my Fuel.

kubatyszko: Could you please suggest me which proper ATX power supply should I buy ?


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Unread postPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 2:57 am 
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Hi,

I can't give you any specific model (well, two specific models would be perfect - as those are the non-SGI versions of the real SGI PSU's: Sparkle FSP460-60PFN or NMB it002a430wsw - but you will have extremely hard time finding either).

You can buy *ANY* ATX PSU but it needs the following:

20+4 or 24 pins MOLEX plug (that's the big one)
4 or 6 pin P4 power plug (that's the one which goes next to CPU with extra voltages)

It needs proper current levels: specifically:

On each of those AT LEAST:

+3.3V 27.0A
+5V 27.0A
+12V I/O 15.0A
+12V CPU 15.0A
+5Vsb 2.0A
-12V 0.6A

You simply need to look at the PSU box or the sticker on the side and match each level - if it's greater or equal - buy that one. And make sure it's ATX, not BTX nor WTX etc.

The PSU I used myself is shown here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16725574&hilit=fuel+sparkle&start=45#p7348126

DO NOT buy the new flashy ones with 1000W power etc - those usually give a lot of power on the PCI-X cables which you will not use.

I would recommend a PSU somewhere in 500-600W range - those are likely to have enough current for Fuel.

Also, it all depends on amount of hardware you have plugged in there, if your fuel is fully packed then you definitely need at least the required levels on each for stable work, but if it's not maxed at all - you can (but there is no guarantee) try using a PSU with slightly lower specs, 1 or 2 A less should not hurt.

One more note - depending on your MB, Firmware, PROM versions etc, there is a chance the MB may be trying to communicate with the PSU (the Sparkle-made PSU has some magical SGI chip inside) - can you check what PSU does your Fuel currently have ?

Thanks

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Unread postPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 5:16 am 
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kubatyszko wrote:
well, two specific models would be perfect - as those are the non-SGI versions of the real SGI PSU's: Sparkle FSP460-60PFN or NMB it002a430wsw - but you will have extremely hard time finding either

Probably not much use to someone in Greece - but I have an available non-SGI ATX Sparkle FSP460-60PFN - the one shown in the photos of the original FUEL PSU thread.

I didn't purchase the ATX version of Sparkle FSP460-60PFN as a Fuel PSU replacement - I got it so I could compare the SGI and non-SGI versions (for the thread linked above). I occasionally get asked to help family or friends diagnose or repair PCs, so I figured when I bought the ATX Sparkle I'd eventually find a use for it.

If anyone here wants to try kubatyszko's ATX conversion and can't find a PSU with the right specs, I'd pass the ATX Sparkle FSP460-60PFN along for the same thing I paid for it ($40). If the nekochan search tool (and a busted Fuel PSU) lead you to this thread just drop me a PM if you're interested.

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