eBay, not mine: HP 9000 C8000 new in box

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Shiunbird
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eBay, not mine: HP 9000 C8000 new in box

Unread postby Shiunbird » Fri May 12, 2017 9:02 am

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Y888099
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Re: eBay, not mine: HP 9000 C8000 new in box

Unread postby Y888099 » Fri May 12, 2017 3:57 pm

bitbullshop .. this item was previously offered at 1600 euro, and it's still there. Unsold. They also sell on other channels, and they want to sell a Tektronix xp400 untested with neither software nor license ( it means ... completely useless ) for 400 euro :roll:

Never heard about the license key you MUST have to run the software? They just want to sell at the highest price. It doesn't sound being professional for me!

Indeed, they don't answer emails, PMs. You are alone with your purchase, they don't assist you. Which *IS* not professional!

Even in this specif case they show they don't know what they sell, like for the Tektronix. They are offering 1xCPU, which might be problematic in case you want to upgrade to 2xCPUs. Firmware issues are known about that, therefore it should be inspected before the purchase, with a minimal assistance from the seller.
Last edited by Y888099 on Fri May 12, 2017 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: eBay, not mine: HP 9000 C8000 new in box

Unread postby mopar5150 » Fri May 12, 2017 5:24 pm

Still neat to find one new in the box.
If the thing isn't on fire it's a software problem.

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Re: eBay, not mine: HP 9000 C8000 new in box

Unread postby Y888099 » Fri May 12, 2017 5:47 pm

Frankly, I prefer doing business with someone who knows exactly what is going to sale, rather than with someone that is willing to sell what was just found brand new in the box.

my 50 cents.
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Re: eBay, not mine: HP 9000 C8000 new in box

Unread postby kramlq » Fri May 12, 2017 6:02 pm

Y888099 wrote:Even in this specif case they show they don't know what they sell, like for the Tektronix. They are offering 1xCPU, which might be problematic in case you want to upgrade to 2xCPUs. Firmware issues are known about that, therefore it should be inspected before the purchase, with a minimal assistance from the seller.

From what I've read, that problem was eventually traced back to people trying to use 2 CPUs without L2 cache in an SMP configuration, which seemingly does not work. This machine seems to have a 8900 1.0GHz with 64Mb L2, so could probably be matched with the same processor for an SMP upgrade.

@mopar5150 I agree. Its always nice to get all the matching accessories and software/documentation with a system in one go and not have to hunt it down after the fact. Few owners seem to keep the original accessories/docs/sofware disks over time. For example, I've still never managed to get a copy of the media kit for the VW320. Or things like firmware disks. It seems like nobody on the planet has the little endian ARC firmware floppy for a SNI RM200c.

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Re: eBay, not mine: HP 9000 C8000 new in box

Unread postby Y888099 » Fri May 12, 2017 7:03 pm

I handled a qty=3 of C8K: two sold, 1 left unused in France. I am currently using a C3600 because the PCI on linux is more stable, and I need it for my PCI-FPGA boards.

kramlq wrote:trying to use 2 CPUs without L2 cache in an SMP configuration, which seemingly does not work.


I confirm it. It doesn't work! You must use CPUs with L2 cache.

kramlq wrote:This machine seems to have a 8900 1.0GHz with 64Mb L2, so could probably be matched with the same processor for an SMP upgrade.


There is also a problem with the firmware, which needs to be updated in order to correctly handle the SMP upgrade. Machine already shipped in SMP configuration (like my sold C8Ks) already come with the right firmware, other machines (like my third C8K) ... it depends. Of course, upgrading the firmware can be manually made, but I had problems with the mobo revision. At the end, I was not able to reflash, therefore I had to replace the whole motherboard before being able to have it configured as SMP 2xPA8900 @ 1.1Ghz.

A mobo replacement doesn't cost less than 300 euro. One should be aware of it, especially if the bidding price is not cheap enough to cover the gamble.

Btw, my point is: a good seller should provide customer care. Assistance means answering questions, being informed and provide information! They don't.
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Re: eBay, not mine: HP 9000 C8000 new in box

Unread postby kramlq » Fri May 12, 2017 7:41 pm

Y888099 wrote:There is also a problem with the firmware, which needs to be updated in order to correctly handle the SMP upgrade. Machine already shipped in SMP configuration (like my sold C8Ks) already come with the right firmware, other machines (like my third C8K) ... it depends. Of course, upgrading the firmware can be manually made, but I had problems with the mobo revision. At the end, I was not able to reflash, therefore I had to replace the whole motherboard before being able to have it configured as SMP 2xPA8900 @ 1.1Ghz.

A mobo replacement doesn't cost less than 300 euro. One should be aware of it, especially if the bidding price is not cheap enough to cover the gamble.

Sure, having to upgrade firmware/boards to use later processors/RAM is not uncommon though. Anybody who has ever tried to upgrade a VW320 to dual 1GHz, a SPARCstation 20 to >125MHz hyperSPARCs, or an O2 to a high end R12k has experienced this as well.

I was referring to the theory from years ago that the second CPU socket was somehow locked and required a license upgrade by a HP engineer to use a second CPU. It turned out to be the L2 cache requirement was causing the problem, rather than a firmware/license issue.

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Re: eBay, not mine: HP 9000 C8000 new in box

Unread postby Shiunbird » Sun May 14, 2017 12:08 am

I guess at this point it's more of a collector's item than anything else, and it's part of the deal to get it up and running.
Although I concur, dealing with clueless sellers can be a pain. I'd probably bite if I had the money to spare.
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Re: eBay, not mine: HP 9000 C8000 new in box

Unread postby johnnym » Sun May 14, 2017 4:22 am

kramlq wrote:I was referring to the theory from years ago that the second CPU socket was somehow locked and required a license upgrade by a HP engineer to use a second CPU. It turned out to be the L2 cache requirement was causing the problem, rather than a firmware/license issue.

There was a thread on the linux-parisc mailing list in 2010, which also seems to point to the "requirement" of L2 cache for each processor when using two of them in the c8000. One post to this thread seems to quote an older quick specs document and speaks of "2-way" operation for a PA-8800 running at 900 MHz without L2 cache and "2 or 4-way" for PA-8800 and PA-8900 with L2 cache. From the two quick specs documents (1 (from 2007), 2 (from 2004)) I could find online, only the 2004 version seems to back this, as for "2nd Processor" only processors with L2 cache are mentioned. The 2007 version says "2 or 4-way" for "1.0 GHz PA-8900" without L2 cache though and only mentions PA-8900 processors. But maybe there is an error in the quick specs document of 2007, because further down it also only lists processors with L2 cache as "2nd Processor".
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Re: eBay, not mine: HP 9000 C8000 new in box

Unread postby Shiunbird » Sun May 14, 2017 2:10 pm

Y888099 wrote:Btw, my point is: a good seller should provide customer care. Assistance means answering questions, being informed and provide information! They don't.


Sometimes they just don't know.
I got my IntelliStation new in the box from a company in the Netherlands that handles getting rid of things from companies that went off-business.

They advertised it as a machine with dual 1.9 CPUs, 8GB of RAM and 10 (!!!) GB of HD, plus the GXT6500p.
I got a single 2.1 with 1GB of RAM and 2x72GB of HD, with a GXT135p. I contacted them via e-mail once and the person replying had no idea what GXT6500p is. Given that such cards go for very cheap, I decided to just not bother.

The machine went for 300 Euro, when I was finding used ones for 900 at the time.

They were selling 4-5 machines, all new, and I guess they messed-up all the specs. I'm glad they didn't power them on to try to find out more - they would probably have set the OpenFirmware password and I would never find it again.

I see the same thing with the SGI boxes on eBay.
"This is an Octane, powers up, shows this on screen, I have no idea what it means but machine seems ok."
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Re: eBay, not mine: HP 9000 C8000 new in box

Unread postby Y888099 » Sun May 14, 2017 2:52 pm

Shiunbird wrote:Sometimes they just don't know.


They can reply to emails/PMs. That's *the* point!

They can also provide additional information. Including pictures, which is also interesting for collectors. What does it mean "plastic good?" Let me see a picture taken by you, instead of showing what you have taken from google!

Again, they don't! Bad communication is a symptom of bad business.

They claim they can assemble machines on demand. Well, good, I wonder how can they achieve or complete successfully if they don't they answer a simple question: have you ever tried to put a second CPU on? Does it work? Yes/No?

Shiunbird wrote:I see the same thing with the SGI boxes on eBay.
"This is an Octane, powers up, shows this on screen, I have no idea what it means but machine seems ok."


This is acceptable since you already know that the seller has no idea of the health of the products for sale (100% working? Damaged? Partially? Fully?), nor skill / equipment to test it, and probably the price is also cheap enough to cover the risk in case what you purchase is less useful than a brick.
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