Onyx2 and Origin2K experiment.

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krafty
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Onyx2 and Origin2K experiment.

Unread postby krafty » Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:28 am

Ok- here's the situation: I have an Origin 2K and an Onyx2 IR2 deskside. I have six node boards, and three full router boards.

(I think you can probably see where I'm going at this point)

I have been experimenting with connecting the two together, and it actually sees all of the hardware, BUT, I get "Bad system structure" errors (And the system basically indicates all of the external Craylink ports) or I get "All nodes need premium memory for this configuration" errors. Apparently, it depends on something random weather I get the first or second error, as there is no rhyme nor reason to it.

Any suggestions? Everything I've tride leads me to teh POD.

Both systems boot independently of one another (With router boards installed) but as soon as I connect the two, they bomb out to the POD. If they are connected, when I issue an 'initalllogs' in the POD, it hangs the system. I've left them running for hours and it never returns a prompt or anything.

I have an MMSC setup available to use in the configuration as well.

Any suggestions? I'd also be open to buying a barebones Onyx2 rack system (Just the chassis and Ktown boards) for cheap if anyone has an extra... :)

Incidentally, just for record keeping, I've actually measured the power consumption in my office consisting of the following:
1 SGI JBOD Fibre Vault, 1 Origin2K (w/ 4 node boards, dual CPUs each), 1 Onyx2 (Dual node boards, dual CPUs each) two flat panel monitors and one 17 inch CRT monitor. All weighs in at 19.8 Amps on a 110V line when everything is booted up and running full tilt. That's with the high speed fans going. They keep my feet warm.

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Unread postby Brombear » Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:17 am

2 KW :shock: Good to see that you do not live in california though 8)

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krafty
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Unread postby krafty » Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:22 am

At one point, I had several VAX systems, a bunch of Sun equipment, and a lot of big iron routers and switches (I used to work for an ISP and got first dibs on any abandoned equipment from people who didn't pay their bills)

My desktop was a dual processor Sun E-250- and all of it ran pretty much 24/7. My power bill at home was around $580 or so per month and if you went outside to look at the meter, you would see that it was spinning so fast that it actually went back in time...
There once was a woman named Bright,
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Unread postby chervarium » Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:23 am

There are no XIO connectors etched on the Onyx2/Deskside mid-plane for a second router and additional two nodeboards because of the VME gfx subsystem. What you need is a topology consisting of two CrayLinks from/to two different routers (and possibly two optional Xpress links) in order to interconnect two systems. Which implies that you can't connect it to another O2k class system.

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Unread postby jan-jaap » Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:06 am

krafty wrote:At one point, I had several VAX systems, a bunch of Sun equipment, and a lot of big iron routers and switches (I used to work for an ISP and got first dibs on any abandoned equipment from people who didn't pay their bills)

My desktop was a dual processor Sun E-250- and all of it ran pretty much 24/7. My power bill at home was around $580 or so per month and if you went outside to look at the meter, you would see that it was spinning so fast that it actually went back in time...


Hehe, better watch out for the police, they might suspect you're running a marihuana plantage in your attic :wink: . What they do over here is fly over the city after it snowed and check which roofs aren't white ... I might be in trouble, I keep my SGI's in the attic :lol:
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Unread postby krafty » Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:08 am

chervarium wrote:There are no XIO connectors etched on the Onyx2/Deskside mid-plane for a second router and additional two nodeboards because of the VME gfx subsystem. What you need is a topology consisting of two CrayLinks from/to two different routers (and possibly two optional Xpress links) in order to interconnect two systems. Which implies that you can't connect it to another O2k class system.


So does that mean that I can connect it to another Onyx2 system? Why would there be a router slot in the first place if there was no intent to connect it to anything- surely they could have engineered the null router onto the midplane board.
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Unread postby chervarium » Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:33 am

krafty wrote:
chervarium wrote:There are no XIO connectors etched on the Onyx2/Deskside mid-plane for a second router and additional two nodeboards because of the VME gfx subsystem. What you need is a topology consisting of two CrayLinks from/to two different routers (and possibly two optional Xpress links) in order to interconnect two systems. Which implies that you can't connect it to another O2k class system.


So does that mean that I can connect it to another Onyx2 system? Why would there be a router slot in the first place if there was no intent to connect it to anything- surely they could have engineered the null router onto the midplane board.
First of all, NUMA works with hypercube topologies, id est, every time you extend the configuration you MUST do it by completing a "side" (two dimentional cube or 2-cube) of the hypercube. A complete "side" consists of 4 routers and 8 nodeboards (a dual chassis configuration). In your case you're trying to connect a leaf to the topology without completing a "side" and that's why you get the "Bad system structure" message (and it IS a bad structure). Here's something that resembles 1 "side" and has 16 CPUs:

Code: Select all

     _________XBOW__________
    /                       \
   /                         \
Node1A      Node1B         Node1C      Node1D
   \          /\               \         //
    MP       MP \_________XBOW__MP______/MP
     \      /                    \      /   
     Router11--------MP---------Router12   
     |       \___XL___   ______/       |
     CL               \_/______        CL
     |       ______XL__/       \       |
     Router21------------MP-----Rotuer22
    /______\__XBOW__________    /      \
  MP/       MP              \  MP       MP
  //         \               \/          \
Node2A      Node2B         Node2C      Node2D
               \                         /
                \_________XBOW__________/

Agenda:
    CL == CrayLink
    XL == Xpress link (optional)
    MP == midplane
Every XBOW has multiple XIO ports and the nodes are actually XIO clients.
With the Onyx2/Deskside the gfx is builtin, i.e. KONA resides on the VME backplane that's implemented on the midplane and there's space for only 2 nodeboards, respectively only one router board and therefore, no topology extensions. With the rackmountable Onyx2 the gfx is in separate chassis, connected through a Xtown XIO card to one of the XBOWs - which makes the rackmountable Onyx2 an O2k with gfx interface.

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Unread postby falty » Fri Sep 09, 2005 3:54 pm

aw that sucks. So you're saying that unless you have a rackmount you cannot do this with the desksides?
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Unread postby chervarium » Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:52 pm

falty wrote:aw that sucks. So you're saying that unless you have a rackmount you cannot do this with the desksides?
Unfortunatelly, you cannot extend your deskside to a full-blown Onyx 2/Origin 2000. They have never been meant for that.

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Unread postby krafty » Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:47 pm

chervarium wrote:
falty wrote:aw that sucks. So you're saying that unless you have a rackmount you cannot do this with the desksides?
Unfortunatelly, you cannot extend your deskside to a full-blown Onyx 2/Origin 2000. They have never been meant for that.


So why did they put a slot for a router board on the front of the Onyx2 deskside?
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Unread postby hamei » Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:09 pm

krafty wrote:So why did they put a slot for a router board on the front of the Onyx2 deskside?

Why do they sell a DM10 option that doesn't work ? Why did they put USB ports in the Tezro-Fuel that are close to useless ? Why did a tech business that depends on high profit margins fire all their engineers ? Why do women collect shoes ? There are some mysteries man was never meant to solve, I guess.

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Unread postby foetz » Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:51 pm

chervarium wrote:
falty wrote:aw that sucks. So you're saying that unless you have a rackmount you cannot do this with the desksides?
Unfortunatelly, you cannot extend your deskside to a full-blown Onyx 2/Origin 2000. They have never been meant for that.


you can link them. you have to connect the craylink cables right and the units should match in
some points.
search techpubs for the rack owner's guides.

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Unread postby chervarium » Sat Sep 10, 2005 5:03 am

foetz wrote:
chervarium wrote:
falty wrote:aw that sucks. So you're saying that unless you have a rackmount you cannot do this with the desksides?
Unfortunatelly, you cannot extend your deskside to a full-blown Onyx 2/Origin 2000. They have never been meant for that.


you can link them. you have to connect the craylink cables right and the units should match in
some points.
search techpubs for the rack owner's guides.
The rackmountable version has completely different midplane (an O2k one) and a separate graphics module - http://techpubs.sgi.com/library/tpl/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?coll=0650&db=bks&srch=&fname=/SGI_Admin/Onyx2_Rack_OG/sgi_html/ch03.html and http://techpubs.sgi.com/library/tpl/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?coll=0650&db=bks&srch=&fname=/SGI_Admin/Onyx2_Rack_OG/sgi_html/ch02.html.

Compare to http://techpubs.sgi.com/library/tpl/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?coll=0650&db=bks&srch=&fname=/SGI_Admin/Onyx2_Desk_OG/sgi_html/ch02.html.

I'd also suggest this manual - http://techpubs.sgi.com/library/tpl/cgi-bin/browse.cgi?coll=0650&db=bks&cmd=toc&pth=/SGI_Developer/OrOn2_Theops.

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Unread postby TeeTylerToe » Sat Sep 10, 2005 7:19 am

I'm having a little trouble wraping my head around this.

the standard/meta routers have 6 ports (12 unidirectional ports?), 3 internal, 3 external

with the null router, that maxes out at 4 processors. it only has 2 internal ports, and 4 null ports, and there is only 1 router in the chassis.

the star router has all 3 internal ports, but no internal ports, and there are two of them.

lets say you have 2 origin 2000's. you put only one standard router in each, and 2 node boards. connecting only one cable from star router 0, to star router 1, would that be a configuration that would work?

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Unread postby krafty » Sat Sep 10, 2005 7:59 am

I was basing my assumption that they can be linked on this quote from page 57 of the "Origin and Onyx2 Theory of Operations Manual" (The section on router boards, which can be found here: http://techpubs.sgi.com/library/tpl/cgi ... /ch02.html about two thirds down the page)

Underneath the typs of router boards it says "Programmable tables within the Router ASICs control packet routing through the CrayLink Interconnect. These tables allow for partial configurations (system sizes which are not 2^n) and reconfigure around broken links or inoperative modules."

It seems that that paragraph allows for a configuration of two router boards in an O2K and one in an Onyx2 to be linked, but perhaps with some manual manipulation of the routing table?
There once was a woman named Bright,

Whose speed was much faster than light.

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And returned on the previous night!


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