Fuel PSU dead :(

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stuart
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Fuel PSU dead :(

Unread postby stuart » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:04 pm

Hey all,

I've been away from here for an absolute age, but I've managed to get myself some cool new space, so I'm pulling my SGI kit out of storage!

... and time doesn't appear to have treated things well :(

First up - the Fuel (see hinv): dead as a dodo. On connecting power there's no blikenlights, no hint of fan movement - and, crucially, no sign of life from the L1 serial port either.

(38400,8n1 via a null-modem cable right? Xon/Xoff or Hardware flow control - does it matter?)
Before I try to source a replacement Sparkle PSU, an ATX converter board (Hi @kubatyszko!), or anything else, would anyone in the UK (preferably London or Cambridge) happen to have a spare PSU (or Fuel) I coudl use to confirm that it's just the PSU that's faulty, and not anything else?

Any other suggestions for things I could try?

Cheers,

stuart

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Re: Fuel PSU dead :(

Unread postby stuart » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:49 am

I've ordered one of the ATX converters...

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mia
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Re: Fuel PSU dead :(

Unread postby mia » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:20 am

A quick question, if one can use an ATX power supply, can we put the fuel motherboard + video in a regular pc case, has it been done? I personally think the fuel case sucks, compared what is available on https://www.mountainmods.com/ or something like that.
:Onyx2:

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Re: Fuel PSU dead :(

Unread postby kubatyszko » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:53 pm

mia wrote:A quick question, if one can use an ATX power supply, can we put the fuel motherboard + video in a regular pc case, has it been done? I personally think the fuel case sucks, compared what is available on https://www.mountainmods.com/ or something like that.


Nope, the layout of motherboard, slot placement, and the way it's mounted will certainly not fit in any ATX.
At the very least - look at how the CPU module is mounted - you won't even find a case that large with enough clearance.

As a side-note - there EXISTS a PC case on which Fuel was based (made by Palo Alto design), rather difficult to find.

Unfortunately *angry face here*, there were a few reported mods in the opposite direction - people butchering Fuel cases and putting ATX motherboards in there with varying luck. I personally am very much against (wouldn't do it even if my Fuel was completely broken).
Designer of Fuel ATX PSU adapter board : viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16732341
(now ships from USA), In stock!

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mia
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Re: Fuel PSU dead :(

Unread postby mia » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:20 pm

I wish I was crafty enough to make my own case to host my fuel's guts.
:Onyx2:

ajw99uk
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Re: Fuel PSU dead :(

Unread postby ajw99uk » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:00 pm

mia wrote:I wish I was crafty enough to make my own case to host my fuel's guts.

Go for it - here's some inspiration ;-)
Fuel; Indigo2; Inspiron 531 WinXP/Win10/debian-buster; Inspiron 4100 debian-buster; RiscPC Kinetic/448MB/RISCOS4.39; RPi B/256MB RISCOS5.23; RPi2 Raspbian-buster; A5000/33MHz/FPA11/8MB/RISCOS3.11; A540/25MHz/FPA10/16MB/RISCOS3.11 or RISCiX1.21

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stuart
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Re: Fuel PSU dead :(

Unread postby stuart » Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:34 pm

Right - so the ATX adapter has arrived (and without any additional tax or duty, yay!)

I assumed that'd be the hard part...

... now the unanticipated problem (which I really should have seen coming...) is that I cannot find a *single* PSU on sale in the UK which is ATX-format and supports 30A on both the 3.3v and 5v rails :(

The nearest ones I can find are a minority handful which can do up to 25A, but even they're rare.

Does anyone know of a suitable replacement Fuel PSU still for sale, preferably in the UK?

I guess otherwise I'm trawling eBay... <sigh>

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Re: Fuel PSU dead :(

Unread postby stuart » Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:39 pm

(For example, the Corsair CX600 is mentioned here, but only supports 25A on the key rails... how important is getting the full 30A for a 4GB 600MHz Fuel with one hard drive but with V12 graphics? How much could this spec. be pushed before that last 5A becomes a problem?)

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Re: Fuel PSU dead :(

Unread postby kubatyszko » Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:35 pm

Go with the 25A. You’ll be fine
Designer of Fuel ATX PSU adapter board : viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16732341
(now ships from USA), In stock!

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Re: Fuel PSU dead :(

Unread postby stuart » Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:35 am

Cool - thanks. Love the adapter, by the way :D

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Re: Fuel PSU dead :(

Unread postby stuart » Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:07 pm

Actually, looking at the Corsair product specs (as the CX600 is EOL) the following PSUs should be electrically sufficient (although I can't comment on the physical fit):

AX1500i, AX1200i, AX1200, TX850M, TX750M, TX650M, TX850, TX750, TX650 (all support 30A on +3.3V & +5V rails, between 150W & 180W combined max. power)

According to the Sparkle spec. sheet the original PSU could handle up to 200W on the 3.3V and 5V rails, and 440W overall.

The TX650M, which looks to be the least crazy of the lot, will do up to 150W and has (semi-modular) 20+4 pin m/b connector (600mm), 4+4 pin CPU connector (650mm), 8 molex connectors. Amazon lists it as 80 Plus Gold rated, whereas the spec. sheet says only bronze.

Frustratingly, there appear to be at least two different product versions around - one with a fairly huge amount of clearance around the inlet (http://dynaquestpc.com/wp-content/uploa ... tx650m.jpg) and one without (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com ... SX355_.jpg). Having said that, the CX600 doesn't appear to have much clearance either - so if this fits then the TX650M should, I guess, be fine too...

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Re: Fuel PSU dead :(

Unread postby stuart » Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:22 pm

I also note that none of the alternative PSUs appear to have any rear-facing screw holes with which to reattach the hook which the Sparkle original used to hang from the top of the case - I guess the three rear screws should be sufficient... ?

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Re: Fuel PSU dead :(

Unread postby stuart » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:24 pm

So with the new PSU I can finally reach the L1 environment:

Code: Select all

001a01-L1>env
Environmental monitoring is enabled and running.

Description    State       Warning Limits     Fault Limits       Current
-------------- ----------  -----------------  -----------------  -------
           12V   Wait Pwr  10%  10.80/ 13.20  20%   9.60/ 14.40    0.25
        12V IO   Wait Pwr  10%  10.80/ 13.20  20%   9.60/ 14.40    0.25
            5V   Wait Pwr  10%   4.50/  5.50  20%   4.00/  6.00    0.36
          3.3V   Wait Pwr  10%   2.97/  3.63  20%   2.64/  3.96    0.62
          2.5V   Wait Pwr  10%   2.25/  2.75  20%   2.00/  3.00    0.00
          1.5V   Wait Pwr  10%   1.35/  1.65  20%   1.20/  1.80    0.00
        5V aux   Wait Pwr  10%   4.50/  5.50  20%   4.00/  6.00    5.02
      3.3V aux   Wait Pwr  10%   2.97/  3.63  20%   2.64/  3.96    3.30
PIMM0 12V bias   Wait Pwr  10%  10.80/ 13.20  20%   9.60/ 14.40    0.25
     Fuel SRAM   Wait Pwr  10%   2.25/  2.75  20%   2.00/  3.00    0.06
      Fuel CPU   Wait Pwr  10%   1.44/  1.76  20%   1.28/  1.92    0.06
    PIMM0 1.5V   Wait Pwr  10%   1.35/  1.65  20%   1.20/  1.80    0.06
PIMM0 3.3V aux   Wait Pwr  10%   2.97/  3.63  20%   2.64/  3.96    3.29
  PIMM0 5V aux   Wait Pwr  10%   4.50/  5.50  20%   4.00/  6.00    4.99
  XIO 12V bias   Wait Pwr  10%  10.80/ 13.20  20%   9.60/ 14.40    0.25
        XIO 5V   Wait Pwr  10%   4.50/  5.50  20%   4.00/  6.00    0.36
      XIO 2.5V   Wait Pwr  10%   2.25/  2.75  20%   2.00/  3.00    0.00
  XIO 3.3V aux   Wait Pwr  10%   2.97/  3.63  20%   2.64/  3.96    3.29

Description    State       Warning RPM  Current RPM
-------------- ----------  -----------  -----------
FAN 0  EXHAUST   Wait Pwr          920            0
FAN 1       HD   Wait Pwr         1560            0
FAN 2      PCI   Wait Pwr         1120            0
FAN 3    XIO 1   Wait Pwr         1600            0
FAN 4    XIO 2   Wait Pwr         1600            0
FAN 5       PS   Wait Pwr         1600            0

                           Advisory   Critical   Fault      Current
Description    State       Temp       Temp       Temp       Temp   
-------------- ----------  ---------  ---------  ---------  ---------
NODE 0           Wait Pwr   Disabled   Disabled   70C/158F   23C/ 73F
NODE 1           Wait Pwr   Disabled   Disabled   70C/158F   23C/ 73F
NODE 2           Wait Pwr   Disabled   Disabled   70C/158F   24C/ 75F
PIMM             Wait Pwr   Disabled   Disabled   70C/158F   23C/ 73F
ODYSSEY          Wait Pwr   Disabled   Disabled   70C/158F   23C/ 73F
BEDROCK          Wait Pwr  Not currently available

001a01-L1>pwr check
power appears off
001a01-L1>pwr
Supply          State Voltage    Margin  Value
--------------  ----- ---------  ------- -----
           12V    off    0.188V      N/A
        12V IO     NC    0.188V      N/A
            5V     NC    0.364V      N/A
          3.3V     NC    0.619V   normal     0
          2.5V    off    0.000V   normal     0
          1.5V     NC    0.000V   normal     0
        5V aux     NC    5.018V      N/A
      3.3V aux     NC    3.302V      N/A
PIMM0 12V bias     NC    0.188V      N/A
     Fuel SRAM     NC    0.065V   normal     0
      Fuel CPU    off    0.056V   normal   132
    PIMM0 1.5V     NC    0.056V   normal     0
PIMM0 3.3V aux     NC    3.285V      N/A
  PIMM0 5V aux     NC    4.992V      N/A
  XIO 12V bias     NC    0.188V      N/A
        XIO 5V     NC    0.364V      N/A
      XIO 2.5V    off    0.000V   normal     0
  XIO 3.3V aux     NC    3.285V      N/A
001a01-L1>pwr up
001a01-L1>env
Environmental monitoring is enabled and running.

Description    State       Warning Limits     Fault Limits       Current
-------------- ----------  -----------------  -----------------  -------
           12V    Enabled  10%  10.80/ 13.20  20%   9.60/ 14.40   11.81
        12V IO    Enabled  10%  10.80/ 13.20  20%   9.60/ 14.40   11.88
            5V    Enabled  10%   4.50/  5.50  20%   4.00/  6.00    4.97
          3.3V    Enabled  10%   2.97/  3.63  20%   2.64/  3.96    3.32
          2.5V    Enabled  10%   2.25/  2.75  20%   2.00/  3.00    2.46
          1.5V    Enabled  10%   1.35/  1.65  20%   1.20/  1.80    1.47
        5V aux    Enabled  10%   4.50/  5.50  20%   4.00/  6.00    4.99
      3.3V aux    Enabled  10%   2.97/  3.63  20%   2.64/  3.96    3.30
PIMM0 12V bias    Enabled  10%  10.80/ 13.20  20%   9.60/ 14.40   11.81
     Fuel SRAM    Enabled  10%   2.25/  2.75  20%   2.00/  3.00    2.52
      Fuel CPU    Enabled  10%   1.44/  1.76  20%   1.28/  1.92    1.61
    PIMM0 1.5V    Enabled  10%   1.35/  1.65  20%   1.20/  1.80    1.49
PIMM0 3.3V aux    Enabled  10%   2.97/  3.63  20%   2.64/  3.96    3.29
  PIMM0 5V aux    Enabled  10%   4.50/  5.50  20%   4.00/  6.00    4.99
  XIO 12V bias    Enabled  10%  10.80/ 13.20  20%   9.60/ 14.40   11.75
        XIO 5V    Enabled  10%   4.50/  5.50  20%   4.00/  6.00    4.99
      XIO 2.5V    Enabled  10%   2.25/  2.75  20%   2.00/  3.00    2.47
  XIO 3.3V aux    Enabled  10%   2.97/  3.63  20%   2.64/  3.96    3.29

Description    State       Warning RPM  Current RPM
-------------- ----------  -----------  -----------
FAN 0  EXHAUST    Enabled          920         1163
FAN 1       HD    Enabled         1560         2163
FAN 2      PCI    Enabled         1120         1493
FAN 3    XIO 1    Enabled         1600         2220
FAN 4    XIO 2    Enabled         1600         2163
FAN 5       PS    Enabled         1600         1824

                           Advisory   Critical   Fault      Current
Description    State       Temp       Temp       Temp       Temp   
-------------- ----------  ---------  ---------  ---------  ---------
NODE 0            Enabled   Disabled   Disabled   70C/158F   24C/ 75F
NODE 1            Enabled   Disabled   Disabled   70C/158F   24C/ 75F
NODE 2            Enabled   Disabled   Disabled   70C/158F   24C/ 75F
PIMM              Enabled   Disabled   Disabled   70C/158F   24C/ 75F
ODYSSEY           Enabled   Disabled   Disabled   70C/158F   23C/ 73F
BEDROCK           Enabled   Disabled   Disabled   85C/185F   23C/ 73F

001a01-L1>log
01/05/10 15:47:21 reset again MIPS
01/07/10 15:41:57 Power Down: issue 'pwr d' again to immediately power down.
01/07/10 15:41:59 power down (PANEL)
01/07/10 15:42:00 power up (PANEL)
01/07/10 15:42:07 reset again MIPS
02/02/10 07:27:02 Fuel SRAM low fault limit reached  1.040V.
02/02/10 07:27:03 junkbus write(len=80) - UART:UART_TIMEOUT
02/02/10 08:59:30 L1 booting 1.24.11
02/02/10 08:59:30 PSC: 0x07
02/02/10 08:59:30 USB0: waiting on open
02/02/10 09:04:13 power up (PANEL)
02/02/10 09:04:19 reset again MIPS
02/02/10 09:49:31 Power Down: issue 'pwr d' again to immediately power down.
02/02/10 09:50:05 power down (OS)
02/02/10 09:51:21 power up (PANEL)
02/02/10 09:51:27 reset again MIPS
05/23/10 23:12:14 PIMM0 1.5V low fault limit reached  0.000V.
05/23/10 23:12:16 junkbus write(len=81) - UART:UART_TIMEOUT
05/23/10 23:14:05 L1 booting 1.24.11
05/23/10 23:14:05 PSC: 0x07
05/23/10 23:14:06 USB0: waiting on open
05/24/10 09:51:52 power up (PANEL)
05/24/10 09:51:58 reset again MIPS
05/24/10 11:34:17 power down (PANEL)
05/24/10 11:34:19 power up (PANEL)
05/24/10 11:34:25 reset again MIPS
07/28/10 10:14:42 Power Down: issue 'pwr d' again to immediately power down.
07/28/10 10:15:39 power down (PANEL)
07/28/10 10:15:42 power up (PANEL)
07/28/10 10:15:49 reset again MIPS
07/28/10 10:16:38 power down (PANEL)
07/28/10 11:02:43 L1 booting 1.24.11
07/28/10 11:02:43 PSC: 0x07
07/28/10 11:02:44 USB0: waiting on open
07/28/10 11:02:53 power up (PANEL)
07/28/10 11:03:00 reset again MIPS
07/28/10 11:18:57 Power Down: issue 'pwr d' again to immediately power down.
07/28/10 11:19:18 power down (PANEL)
06/29/13 20:13:35 L1 booting 1.24.11
06/29/13 20:13:35 PSC: 0x07
06/29/13 20:13:35 USB0: waiting on open
07/03/13 06:29:18 L1 booting 1.24.11
07/03/13 06:29:18 PSC: 0x07
07/03/13 06:29:18 USB0: waiting on open
07/03/13 06:38:17 L1 booting 1.24.11
07/03/13 06:38:17 PSC: 0x07
07/03/13 06:38:18 USB0: waiting on open
07/03/13 06:50:38 power up (COMMAND)
07/03/13 06:50:45 reset again MIPS
001a01-L1>date
07/03/2013 06:55:43 UTC
001a01-L1>


... all of which seems fairly reasonable - but started like this I never get any video-out, and even though the red LED goes out, the two white LEDs just sit there flashing. Additionally, if not started via the L1 controller, I'm still getting no response to front-panel buttons :(

Any thoughts?

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stuart
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Re: Fuel PSU dead :(

Unread postby stuart » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:33 pm

Hmm...

Code: Select all

001a01-L1>leds
CPU  A: 0x80:   POD Mode (0x80/0xBC=okay, solid 0x80=possibly hung polling UART)
        0x8c: FLED_GENERAL:  General exception.
       
001a01-L1>usb

Device: 0  Disconnects: 0  Bus Resets:  7

Endpoint State    Status    Stalls Errors Timeouts
-------- -----    ------    ------ ------ --------
Control  Stalled  Suspended 64     0      0   
Read     Unconfig Ready     0      0      0   
Write    Unconfig Ready     0      0      0   



Is this normal?

kubatyszko
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Re: Fuel PSU dead :(

Unread postby kubatyszko » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:42 pm

I'm not familiar with this USB error, Fuel only supports HID devices (mouse and keyboard) and as long as you have PS/2 keyboard plugged it shouldn't complain (but please check for "console=g" setting in the PROM - you might need to change it to "console=d0" (but verify manual, this is from my memory).
Other than that the voltages with the PSU and adapter look perfect.

Remember (this is the same disclaimer I put in the adapter manual) - you're trying to revive Fuel that had its PSU break - it is LIKELY that at the same time something got fried on the motherboard...

As a last resort, I'd try resetting everything - nvram, prom, L1 settings etc.

Btw, just a few hours ago I got a AM from another user asking to verify his PSU - and look at those wattages - I'm impressed myself.
I would buy the whole stock if I could...

IMG_20180324_084335.jpg
IMG_20180324_084335.jpg (96.27 KiB) Viewed 148 times


Cheers
Designer of Fuel ATX PSU adapter board : viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16732341
(now ships from USA), In stock!


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