ADAT. And the secret is...

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uunix
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ADAT. And the secret is...

Unread postby uunix » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:53 pm

? :oops:

OK, well, never had any joy getting ADAT working from an OCTANE. Tried a Sound Bar some time back that never worked, but then it never worked on anything including TVs, so I put that down to it was just FOOBAR'd.

On a recommendation from a friend as a VERY cheap first port of call for testing, I purchased this tiny made in China convertor to Analog and I can't get that working on any machine either.

I have tried many things, frequency etc, but cannot get anything. Does anyone have any simpleton guide to this format? It would not surprise me if this conversion box did not work, but I sort of suspect I am missing something here.

Fibre Audio connected to the bottom ADAT out to the conversion box. Light is coming though it. Output goes to speakers, DVCAM player input and so forth.

Set default out to ADAT, tried all frequencies. Clock set to all combinations. Had AMESH running and no sign of anything. What doofus thing am I missing here.

An SGI guide would be nice.

Thanks.
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Re: ADAT. And the secret is...

Unread postby robespierre » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:37 pm

ADAT isn't TOSLINK: unless your converter box has the ADAT (Alesis DAT) logo, it doesn't support it.

ADAT is actually a digital audio tape format using SVHS tapes in special Alesis decks. Confusingly, it is also used for two other different things: the 8-ch optical audio interface, and the 9-pin sync interface that those decks had. These are all pro audio products and have 0 adoption in the consumer market.

The ADAT optical interface was implemented on the Octane/RAD for integration into audio production studios. It would be connected to something like a Yamaha 01V with MY8-AT interface.
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Re: ADAT. And the secret is...

Unread postby devv » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:59 pm

Hey,

I got it working. I knew I needed to convert ADAT to S/PDIF before I can input that into a receiver, so I first bought Midiman SAM.
Then I realized that SAM wouldn't work for me because (if I recall correctly) it was capable of conversion, but if input was on optical, output was forced to be on coaxial, and vice versa. (I only realized that the product was not what I was looking for when I checked the manual that came with it. I didn't figure it out from online descriptions.)

So then I bought the Midiman Co2 product, and with it it worked.
It's been a while ago and I don't remember the specifics, but I know it just worked.

Another alternative (and bigger) product for that conversion is Alesis ADAT AI-1.

Hope it helps!
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Re: ADAT. And the secret is...

Unread postby pentium » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:08 pm

robespierre wrote:ADAT isn't TOSLINK: unless your converter box has the ADAT (Alesis DAT) logo, it doesn't support it.

ADAT is actually a digital audio tape format using SVHS tapes in special Alesis decks. Confusingly, it is also used for two other different things: the 8-ch optical audio interface, and the 9-pin sync interface that those decks had. These are all pro audio products and have 0 adoption in the consumer market.

You are telling me that at any time I could of taken the unit that I have hidden under the stairs and plugged it straight into my Octane?? :shock:
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Re: ADAT. And the secret is...

Unread postby jan-jaap » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:21 am

This is what you want:
ada8824.jpg

8x analogue in, 8x analogue out, and I believe 8x AES/EBU in,out as well (not 100% sure). AES/EBU is the pro version of SPDIF so that should connect to e.g. a DAT recorder or CD player.

The Discreet A232 version of the Lucid ADA8824 pictured here is (you guessed it) used in Discreet setups. Where the stock Lucid units have MIDI ports, these have an RS232 port, presumably used by the IRIX system to configure the thing (it's in the Discreet setup manual).

This was the last piece missing from the Discreet setup that my Tezro used to belong too. I bought one before Xmas but it's still in the US so I can't give you 1st hand information (yet).

Something like a Behringer ADA8000 might work too. They're much more common on this side of the Atlantic and you can buy then 2nd hand for very cheap. There's no RS232 so you likely have to set levels by hand on the ADA8000 itself. Or it might simply not work at all. Similarly, newer Lucid unit can do things like 24bit/192KHz conversion, but I don't know if that exceeds the bandwidth of an ADAT pipe and/or the SGI side can make sense of that. So I got the Lucid ADA8824/A232.

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Re: ADAT. And the secret is...

Unread postby Jack Luminous » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:58 am

Toslink used for audio is either adat or spdif format. In the case of Octane, it is adat. 8 channel of audio up to 24bit/48kHz. I got it working using some recording equipment with the same format. There nothing special to do, just check that the freq is the same both side. Normally one side is the master, the other the slave. You do that by choosing the clocking, either internal (master) or adat (slave).
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Re: ADAT. And the secret is...

Unread postby uunix » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:45 am

Thanks for all the good answers chaps.

So, could you go from the OUT on Octane A to the IN on Octane B ?
[Edit]
Well indeed you can, although set at 32hz rather than the default 48 (may be a red herring).

Also the cheapo adaptor does work on the Digital Out port on the Octane (the cheapo device has COAX type and Optical inputs).

What I am unsure yet is the delay, it seems playing AMESH from one machine to other does not seem to sync with the graphic type equalizer display on the AMESH application. I may be wrong on this.

So I have working Optical OUT.
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Re: ADAT. And the secret is...

Unread postby joshiggins » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:25 am

Good shout on the ADA8000, I got one of these working with the Octane no problem and they are nice and cheap.
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Re: ADAT. And the secret is...

Unread postby xiri » Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:11 am

jan-jaap wrote:
The Discreet A232 version of the Lucid ADA8824 pictured here is (you guessed it) used in Discreet setups. Where the stock Lucid units have MIDI ports, these have an RS232 port, presumably used by the IRIX system to configure the thing (it's in the Discreet setup manual).

This is absolutely correct, the Discreet edition of the Lucid ADA8824 has 1 RS-232 port to connect to the SGI gear, however the
normal version of the Lucid ADA8824 has 2 RS-232 ports (ADAT sync in/out) besides the MIDI-ports the Discreet Edition is lacking.
So I wonder if there is any extra value in the Discreet edition while running Discreet applications or is it a stripped down version
of the normal Lucid ADA8824 presuming the Discreet-related customers don't need MIDI ?
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Re: ADAT. And the secret is...

Unread postby jan-jaap » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:15 am

xiri wrote:This is absolutely correct, the Discreet edition of the Lucid ADA8824 has 1 RS-232 port to connect to the SGI gear, however the
normal version of the Lucid ADA8824 has 2 RS-232 ports (ADAT sync in/out) besides the MIDI-ports the Discreet Edition is lacking.
So I wonder if there is any extra value in the Discreet edition while running Discreet applications or is it a stripped down version
of the normal Lucid ADA8824 presuming the Discreet-related customers don't need MIDI ?

There are two ways to configure the ADA8824: 'local' (using dip switches on the back) and 'remote' (using software). The regular ADA8824 came with a now long gone Mac/Windows utility to send configuration data to the ADA8824 using the MIDI input, not the ADAT sync. The Discreet A232 version can be configured from within the Discreet software using the RS232 port. If you have no free serial ports you'll be limited to 'local' mode (chapter 4).

The annoying bit is you can select input/output configuration and metering using the DIP switches, but not gain. Ai. :(
The MIDI commands to configure the ADA8824 are documented in the manual. But apparently, the A232 version uses the same commands, but over serial.

Interestingly, I have both versions of the ADA8824: I bought the 'Discreet A232;' version, received the generic one and the seller was kind enough to send me another unit. But I'm in the middle of rewiring my entire computer room, so I haven't done anything with them other than a quick power-on test.

Edit: the config utility can be found here: http://www.symetrix.co/support/knowledg ... tegory=422

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Re: ADAT. And the secret is...

Unread postby xiri » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:39 am

You are sure that calibrating the setup from the Discreet software using the "ADAT SYNC IN"-RS-232 port won't work
with this generic version of the Lucid ADA8824 and one is forced to use either the DIP-switches or the outdated Win/Mac utility ?

The back of the generic ADA8824 looks like this:
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Re: ADAT. And the secret is...

Unread postby duck » Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:44 am

Just for information, Octanes happily accept and produce s/pdif signals on toslink. I've been using mine as a DAC for ages and to output to my MD deck.

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Re: ADAT. And the secret is...

Unread postby guardian452 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:14 am

I used to use my Octane as a music player with a sony stereo (STR-DE595) connected to it with a spdif cable. It always just worked so I never thought anything more about it.

In the same boat as Duck, but ADAT is different... Like a pro version of DTS or AC3.

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Re: ADAT. And the secret is...

Unread postby jan-jaap » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:55 am

xiri wrote:You are sure

No, like I said I only did a quick power-on test. The rest is from reading the manuals.
xiri wrote:that calibrating the setup from the Discreet software using the "ADAT SYNC IN"-RS-232 port won't work
with this generic version of the Lucid ADA8824 and one is forced to use either the DIP-switches or the outdated Win/Mac utility ?

The back of the generic ADA8824 looks like this:

ADAT SYNC uses a DB9, but some casual googling suggests its *not* RS232.

The ADA8824 manual describes how to use the utility with a MIDI cable:
ada8824.png


ADA8824 manual wrote:ADAT Sync connectors
Two DB-9 female connectors. These connectors accept and deliver
ADAT Sync signals. ADAT Sync consists of three signals: machine
control, ADAT word clock and time code. Include the ADA8824
(ADAT) first in the chain of ADAT sync devices

MIDI Input and Output
5-pin female DIN connectors accept or deliver MIDI signals. The ADA8824
(ADAT) uses MIDI for control when not being operated in stand-alone or ADAT
Sync modes. The ADA8824 (ADAT) uses Sysex commands for control.

... and ...

SW8 switches the MIDI command input between
the ADAT Sync input and the DIN-5 MIDI input connectors. Refer to Table 3.

The way I read this: maybe, just maybe, if (1) you have a soundcard with ADAT-SYNC output (most seem to be input for sync only), (2) jumper the ADA8824 to accept it as command source (SW8) and (3) find the software to tie it all together, then *maybe* it will work. Why not simply buy a USB-MIDI dongle and use a Windows PC or old Mac to set up the ADA8824?

NB: I don't believe the Discreet A232 version is a reduced-cost version. If you know that a Flame setup came with Lucid unit, even if Flame itself is artificially limited to 2 channel audio (Smoke and Inferno can do up to 32 channels), then I think cost saving really wasn't the issue.

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Re: ADAT. And the secret is...

Unread postby xiri » Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:52 am

jan-jaap wrote:
The way I read this: maybe, just maybe, if (1) you have a soundcard with ADAT-SYNC output (most seem to be input for sync only), (2) jumper the ADA8824 to accept it as command source (SW8) and (3) find the software to tie it all together, then *maybe* it will work. Why not simply buy a USB-MIDI dongle and use a Windows PC or old Mac to set up the ADA8824?

Thanks for the clarification, but this is bad news since the generic version of the Lucid ADA 8824 seems to be easier to find on Ebay
and in addition it is more affordable since they sometimes go for 250$.
If the generic Lucid is not compatible with the Discreet software one might as well purchase a Behringer 8000 for a fraction of the cost
of a Lucid ADA8824.
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