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Fuel fixer uppper

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:18 am
by Hombre71
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For entertainment, some pics :)
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Re: Fuel fixer uppper

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:14 am
by Hombre71
Mhhh it seems my Fuel didn't like being moved to a new home as it doesn't want to power on any more:

Code: Select all

001a01-L1>power
Supply          State Voltage    Margin  Value
--------------  ----- ---------  ------- -----
           12V    off ERROR (-204)      N/A
        12V IO     NC    0.000V      N/A
            5V     NC    0.000V      N/A
          3.3V     NC ERROR (-204)   normal     0
          2.5V    off ERROR (-204)   normal     0
          1.5V     NC ERROR (-204)   normal     0
        5V aux     NC ERROR (-204)      N/A
      3.3V aux     NC    3.251V      N/A
PIMM0 12V bias     NC    0.000V      N/A
  Asterix SRAM     NC    0.312V   normal     0
   Asterix CPU    off    0.042V   normal   130
    PIMM0 1.5V     NC    0.000V   normal     0
PIMM0 3.3V aux     NC    3.285V      N/A
  PIMM0 5V aux     NC    5.070V      N/A
  XIO 12V bias     NC    0.000V      N/A
        XIO 5V     NC    0.000V      N/A
      XIO 2.5V    off    0.000V   normal     0
  XIO 3.3V aux     NC    3.285V      N/A
001a01-L1>

Code: Select all

001a01-L1>env
Environmental monitoring is enabled, but not running (configuration error).

Description    State       Warning Limits     Fault Limits       Current
-------------- ----------  -----------------  -----------------  -------
           12V   Wait Pwr  10%  10.80/ 13.20  20%   9.60/ 14.40    0.00
        12V IO   Wait Pwr  10%  10.80/ 13.20  20%   9.60/ 14.40    0.00
            5V   Wait Pwr  10%   4.50/  5.50  20%   4.00/  6.00    0.00
          3.3V   Wait Pwr  10%   2.97/  3.63  20%   2.64/  3.96    0.00
          2.5V   Wait Pwr  10%   2.25/  2.75  20%   2.00/  3.00    0.00
          1.5V   Wait Pwr  10%   1.35/  1.65  20%   1.20/  1.80    0.00
        5V aux   Wait Pwr  10%   4.50/  5.50  20%   4.00/  6.00    0.00
      3.3V aux   Wait Pwr  10%   2.97/  3.63  20%   2.64/  3.96    3.25
PIMM0 12V bias   Wait Pwr  10%  10.80/ 13.20  20%   9.60/ 14.40    0.00
  Asterix SRAM   Wait Pwr  10%   2.25/  2.75  20%   2.00/  3.00    0.31
   Asterix CPU   Wait Pwr  10%   1.44/  1.76  20%   1.28/  1.92    0.04
    PIMM0 1.5V   Wait Pwr  10%   1.35/  1.65  20%   1.20/  1.80    0.00
PIMM0 3.3V aux   Wait Pwr  10%   2.97/  3.63  20%   2.64/  3.96    3.29
  PIMM0 5V aux   Wait Pwr  10%   4.50/  5.50  20%   4.00/  6.00    5.07
  XIO 12V bias   Wait Pwr  10%  10.80/ 13.20  20%   9.60/ 14.40    0.00
        XIO 5V   Wait Pwr  10%   4.50/  5.50  20%   4.00/  6.00    0.00
      XIO 2.5V   Wait Pwr  10%   2.25/  2.75  20%   2.00/  3.00    0.00
  XIO 3.3V aux   Wait Pwr  10%   2.97/  3.63  20%   2.64/  3.96    3.29

Description    State       Warning RPM  Current RPM
-------------- ----------  -----------  -----------
FAN 0  EXHAUST   Wait Pwr          920            0
FAN 1       HD   Wait Pwr         1560            0
FAN 2      PCI   Wait Pwr         1120            0
FAN 3    XIO 1   Wait Pwr         1600            0
FAN 4    XIO 2   Wait Pwr         1600            0
FAN 5       PS   Wait Pwr         1600            0

                           Advisory  Critical  Fault     Current
Description    State       Temp      Temp      Temp      Temp
-------------- ----------  --------  --------  --------  ---------
NODE 0           Wait Pwr  60C/140F  65C/149F  70C/158F   0c/ 32F
NODE 1           Wait Pwr  60C/140F  65C/149F  70C/158F  18c/ 64F
NODE 2           Wait Pwr  60C/140F  65C/149F  70C/158F  23c/ 73F
PIMM             Wait Pwr  60C/140F  65C/149F  70C/158F  23c/ 73F
ODYSSEY          Wait Pwr  60C/140F  65C/149F  70C/158F  22c/ 71F
BEDROCK          Wait Pwr  Not currently available

Code: Select all

001a01-L1>serial all

Data                            Location      Value
------------------------------  ------------  --------
Local System Serial Number      EEPROM        08:00:69:10:60:54
Local Brick Serial Number       EEPROM        MCY012
Reference Brick Serial Number   NVRAM         MEM381

EEPROM      Product Name    Serial      Part Number           Rev  T/W
----------  --------------  ----------  --------------------  ---  ------
NODE        IP34            MCY012      030_1707_003          G    00
MAC         MAC ADDRESS     NA          NA                    NA   NA
PIMM        IP34PIMM        MPJ102      030_1730_001          G    00
XIO         ASTODYB         MLV801      030_1725_001          F    00

EEPROM      JEDEC Info                Part Number         Rev
----------  ------------------------  ------------------  ---
DIMM 0      CE0000000000000027E81101  M3 46L3313BT1-CA0   0B
DIMM 2      CE0000000000000028CF4701  M3 46L3313BT1-CA0   0B
DIMM 1      CE0000000000000028D34701  M3 46L3313BT1-CA0   0B
DIMM 3      CE000000000000002692AE00  M3 46L3313BT1-CA0   0B


This box has had the replacement Forton PSU fitted and the ATX power adapter proto.
I suppose I can rule out the adapter by connecting it directly without the ATX
adapters and setting env monitoring off?

Re: Fuel fixer uppper

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:31 am
by Hombre71

Code: Select all

001a01-L1>fan
fan(s) are on.
fan 0 EXHAUST  rpm 0 (255).
fan 1 ERROR I2C:no acknowledge.
fan 2 ERROR I2C:no acknowledge.
fan 3 XIO 1    rpm 0 (255).
fan 4 XIO 2    rpm 0 (255).
fan 5 PS       rpm 0 (255).

Re: Fuel fixer uppper

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:52 am
by mazzinia
You cannot connect the atx psu directly without using the adapter.
The various power lines in the atx connector are arranged differently (order of the single cables) than in the fuel psu connector.

Maybe the atx psu is faulty. Testing a different atx psu would be a good start to see if the adapter developed an issue, or the psu developed an issue

Re: Fuel fixer uppper

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:47 am
by Hombre71
mazzinia wrote:You cannot connect the atx psu directly without using the adapter.
The various power lines in the atx connector are arranged differently (order of the single cables) than in the fuel psu connector.

Maybe the atx psu is faulty. Testing a different atx psu would be a good start to see if the adapter developed an issue, or the psu developed an issue


Thanks for the tip. The psu came new in a box but I suppose it was quite old,
only explanation as it didn't get much mileage yet.

I dont have too many of those psu's around. Might prefer to straight go for a new psu
if I can find a compatible one....

Re: Fuel fixer uppper

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:29 am
by mazzinia
can you test the current psu inside a normal pc ?

Also, you mentioned it happened after moving the Fuel. I don't know what kind of move and for how long, but the adapter relies on soldering and maybe vibrations while having both sides plugged caused some solder joints to not be effective anymore ?

If you have a tester you can check each pin couples,(in + out connector) one by one to make sure that they all are ok

Re: Fuel fixer uppper

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:38 pm
by kubatyszko
Firstly, I'm always glad to see my adapters in the wild (I haven't seen this post before).


It seems that you have the discounted adapter (that I sold around christmas) without any status lights nor kickstart button.

The new (red) adapters that I sell currently have "standby power" and "power on" lights, and a kickstart button - when pushed it forces the ATX PSU to start, it lets you monitor the voltages via L1 and possibly help investigate the fault.

The kickstart button would certainly help you and allow to read the actual voltages off the PSU.


The adapter in general only converts the signals to their correct places in Fuel's socket and generates FAN 5 (PS) signal. There isn't much that would break, but since the traces are exposed - you might want to clean them with strong (> 95%) IPA (Isopropyl Alcohol) to ensure there isn't anything stuck that could cause shorts. I'm pretty sure I've cleaned it before shipping but who knows - might have caught something since.

Another possibility is that it might have dislodged during your Fuel's transport - have you tried reinstalling it again ?
The older revision that you have has its ATX socket on the underside - this means you have a bunch of cables coming around the board and to the PSU - dislodging the adapter is a possibility.
The boards are usually a tight fit and don't come off but you never know.

Do you have a multimeter and are not scared of touching electronics ? I might be able to guide you through a few ideas and help investigate the problem. I would ask you to remove the adapter, short the PS_ON signal to ground (with some wire) and verify the voltages. DO NOT DO IT yourself without my instructions - you risk breaking the adapter and/or your PSU.
Shorting PS_ON is basically what the kickstart button does - it instructs the PSU to start.


Let me know if you need any help with this

Re: Fuel fixer uppper

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:02 am
by Hombre71
mazzinia wrote:can you test the current psu inside a normal pc ?

Also, you mentioned it happened after moving the Fuel. I don't know what kind of move and for how long, but the adapter relies on soldering and maybe vibrations while having both sides plugged caused some solder joints to not be effective anymore ?

If you have a tester you can check each pin couples,(in + out connector) one by one to make sure that they all are ok


So low tech test work first: the Fortron psu works in a pc box, it turns on and show the bios
on screen. But reseating the adapters and returning the Psu back to the fuel
changes nothing. Later I will try the reverse and otherwise I will start to measure
the throughput of the pins.

Re: Fuel fixer uppper

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:23 am
by Hombre71
Hombre71 wrote:
mazzinia wrote:can you test the current psu inside a normal pc ?

Also, you mentioned it happened after moving the Fuel. I don't know what kind of move and for how long, but the adapter relies on soldering and maybe vibrations while having both sides plugged caused some solder joints to not be effective anymore ?

If you have a tester you can check each pin couples,(in + out connector) one by one to make sure that they all are ok


So low tech test work first: the Fortron psu works in a pc box, it turns on and show the bios
on screen. But reseating the adapters and returning the Psu back to the fuel
changes nothing. Later I will try the reverse and otherwise I will start to measure
the throughput of the pins.


So, here is the output of env when connected to an OCZ 500W ModXstream-Pro:

Code: Select all

001a01-L1>l1
L1 command processor engaged, <CTRL-D> to exit.
001a01-L1>env reset
001a01-L1>env
Environmental monitoring is enabled, but not running (configuration error).

Description    State       Warning Limits     Fault Limits       Current
-------------- ----------  -----------------  -----------------  -------
           12V   Wait Pwr  10%  10.80/ 13.20  20%   9.60/ 14.40    0.00
        12V IO   Wait Pwr  10%  10.80/ 13.20  20%   9.60/ 14.40    0.06
            5V   Wait Pwr  10%   4.50/  5.50  20%   4.00/  6.00    0.13
          3.3V   Wait Pwr  10%   2.97/  3.63  20%   2.64/  3.96    0.13
          2.5V   Wait Pwr  10%   2.25/  2.75  20%   2.00/  3.00    0.13
          1.5V   Wait Pwr  10%   1.35/  1.65  20%   1.20/  1.80    0.13
        5V aux   Wait Pwr  10%   4.50/  5.50  20%   4.00/  6.00    0.13
      3.3V aux   Wait Pwr  10%   2.97/  3.63  20%   2.64/  3.96    3.25
PIMM0 12V bias   Wait Pwr  10%  10.80/ 13.20  20%   9.60/ 14.40    0.13
  Asterix SRAM   Wait Pwr  10%   2.25/  2.75  20%   2.00/  3.00    0.34
   Asterix CPU   Wait Pwr  10%   1.44/  1.76  20%   1.28/  1.92    0.04
    PIMM0 1.5V   Wait Pwr  10%   1.35/  1.65  20%   1.20/  1.80    0.00
PIMM0 3.3V aux   Wait Pwr  10%   2.97/  3.63  20%   2.64/  3.96    3.29
  PIMM0 5V aux   Wait Pwr  10%   4.50/  5.50  20%   4.00/  6.00    5.10
  XIO 12V bias   Wait Pwr  10%  10.80/ 13.20  20%   9.60/ 14.40    0.13
        XIO 5V   Wait Pwr  10%   4.50/  5.50  20%   4.00/  6.00    0.16
      XIO 2.5V   Wait Pwr  10%   2.25/  2.75  20%   2.00/  3.00    0.00
  XIO 3.3V aux   Wait Pwr  10%   2.97/  3.63  20%   2.64/  3.96    3.29

Description    State       Warning RPM  Current RPM
-------------- ----------  -----------  -----------
FAN 0  EXHAUST   Wait Pwr          920            0
FAN 1       HD   Wait Pwr         1560            0
FAN 2      PCI   Wait Pwr         1120            0
FAN 3    XIO 1   Wait Pwr         1600            0
FAN 4    XIO 2   Wait Pwr         1600            0
FAN 5       PS   Wait Pwr         1600            0

                           Advisory  Critical  Fault     Current
Description    State       Temp      Temp      Temp      Temp
-------------- ----------  --------  --------  --------  ---------
NODE 0           Wait Pwr  60C/140F  65C/149F  70C/158F   0c/ 32F
NODE 1           Wait Pwr  60C/140F  65C/149F  70C/158F  18c/ 64F
NODE 2           Wait Pwr  60C/140F  65C/149F  70C/158F  23c/ 73F
PIMM             Wait Pwr  60C/140F  65C/149F  70C/158F  23c/ 73F
ODYSSEY          Wait Pwr  60C/140F  65C/149F  70C/158F  22c/ 71F
BEDROCK          Wait Pwr  Not currently available

Code: Select all


001a01-L1>l1
L1 command processor engaged, <CTRL-D> to exit.
001a01-L1>power up
ERROR: I2C:no acknowledge
001a01-L1>


The errors it was giving with the other PSU aren not present here.

However even with env monitoring off, the machine will not respond to
power up command or the fysical power button

Code: Select all

001a01-L1>l1
L1 command processor engaged, <CTRL-D> to exit.
001a01-L1>power up
ERROR: I2C:no acknowledge
001a01-L1>ERROR: Power up error: no acknowledge
ERROR: Power up error: no acknowledge
ERROR: Power up error: no acknowledge
ERROR: Power up error: no acknowledge

Re: Fuel fixer uppper

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:26 am
by Hombre71
001a01-L1>l1
L1 command processor engaged, <CTRL-D> to exit.
001a01-L1>power up
ERROR: I2C:no acknowledge
001a01-L1>
[/code]

The errors it was giving with the other PSU aren not present here.


Sorry, my bad, actually the power command in L1 still lists errors:

Code: Select all

001a01-L1>power
Supply          State Voltage    Margin  Value
--------------  ----- ---------  ------- -----
           12V    off ERROR (-204)      N/A
        12V IO     NC    0.063V      N/A
            5V     NC    0.130V      N/A
          3.3V     NC ERROR (-204)   normal     0
          2.5V    off ERROR (-204)   normal     0
          1.5V     NC ERROR (-204)   normal     0
        5V aux     NC ERROR (-204)      N/A
      3.3V aux     NC    3.251V      N/A
PIMM0 12V bias     NC    0.125V      N/A
  Asterix SRAM     NC    0.338V   normal     0
   Asterix CPU    off    0.042V   normal   130
    PIMM0 1.5V     NC    0.000V   normal     0
PIMM0 3.3V aux     NC    3.285V      N/A
  PIMM0 5V aux     NC    5.096V      N/A
  XIO 12V bias     NC    0.125V      N/A
        XIO 5V     NC    0.156V      N/A
      XIO 2.5V    off    0.000V   normal     0
  XIO 3.3V aux     NC    3.285V      N/A

Re: Fuel fixer uppper

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:36 am
by mazzinia
mmmm

better if more people pitch in, kubatyszko in particular.
But either something happened to the adapter, or somehow one i2c chip has an issue/one of the cards is no more seated properly ( cpu/v10 ).
Lets do a step back... you mentioned you relocated the Fuel.
Different room ?
Changed apartment ?

Update 2
test intr
try this in L1 , it checks the various i2c chips , if one is faulty it shows with a 1 , otherwise is 0

Update (maybe disregard the cpu board remark)
No Acknowledge From I2C : is caused by not getting energy.

I think we go back to the adapter , and the cpu board is not getting the juice to activate so its own i2c chip blocks everything
But anyway please check the cpu board and make sure it's seated properly

Re: Fuel fixer uppper

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:56 am
by Hombre71
Output from the command test intr

Code: Select all

001a01-L1>test intr
I2C interrupts, High: 39  Low: 7300
  NODE 0 DS1780, 1:    0 (0x00) 2:    0 (0x00)
  NODE 1 DS1780, 1:    0 (0x00) 2:    0 (0x00)
  NODE 2 DS1780, 1:    0 (0x00) 2:    0 (0x00)
    PIMM DS1780, 1:    0 (0x00) 2:    0 (0x00)
 ODYSSEY DS1780, 1:    0 (0x00) 2:    0 (0x00)
     BUS SELECT I/O Expander:    0
 MARGIN CONTROL I/O Expander:    0
       LED0 LOW I/O Expander:    0
 ASIC CONTROL 1 I/O Expander:    0
 ASIC CONTROL 2 I/O Expander:    0
   POWER ENABLE I/O Expander:    0
     XB CONTROL I/O Expander:    0
   PIMM CONTROL I/O Expander:    0
    ODYSSEY GFX I/O Expander:    0
DISPLAY CONTROL I/O Expander:    8
001a01-L1>


I think I indeed need to test the voltage without and thru the adapter to see if there is an issue there.
I moved houses, didn't turn the box on since the move end of April...externally it all looks fine
including the adapter boards.

Re: Fuel fixer uppper

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:38 am
by Trippynet
Fuels can be very finicky systems as you probably know. A few years ago I had issues with my Fuel randomly not booting, occasionally crashing and shutting down whilst in use, plus other general bits of misbehaviour - although admittedly it did always at least try to power up when I tried. In the end, I took the entire system to bits, removed everything I could and then carefully re-seated everything and put it all back together, and it's worked 100% flawlessly since.

Maybe the move has disturbed something inside (even though it looks fine).

Re: Fuel fixer uppper

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:39 am
by Hombre71
kubatyszko wrote:Firstly, I'm always glad to see my adapters in the wild (I haven't seen this post before).


It seems that you have the discounted adapter (that I sold around christmas) without any status lights nor kickstart button.

The new (red) adapters that I sell currently have "standby power" and "power on" lights, and a kickstart button - when pushed it forces the ATX PSU to start, it lets you monitor the voltages via L1 and possibly help investigate the fault.

The kickstart button would certainly help you and allow to read the actual voltages off the PSU.


The adapter in general only converts the signals to their correct places in Fuel's socket and generates FAN 5 (PS) signal. There isn't much that would break, but since the traces are exposed - you might want to clean them with strong (> 95%) IPA (Isopropyl Alcohol) to ensure there isn't anything stuck that could cause shorts. I'm pretty sure I've cleaned it before shipping but who knows - might have caught something since.

Another possibility is that it might have dislodged during your Fuel's transport - have you tried reinstalling it again ?
The older revision that you have has its ATX socket on the underside - this means you have a bunch of cables coming around the board and to the PSU - dislodging the adapter is a possibility.
The boards are usually a tight fit and don't come off but you never know.

Do you have a multimeter and are not scared of touching electronics ? I might be able to guide you through a few ideas and help investigate the problem. I would ask you to remove the adapter, short the PS_ON signal to ground (with some wire) and verify the voltages. DO NOT DO IT yourself without my instructions - you risk breaking the adapter and/or your PSU.
Shorting PS_ON is basically what the kickstart button does - it instructs the PSU to start.


Let me know if you need any help with this



Kuba, is there a diagram for these connectors?
just want to see where the ground and plus on the multimeter should go.

Re: Fuel fixer uppper

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:45 pm
by kubatyszko
I just noticed that you seem to be missing the 5V aux line - all of the "aux" should be showing up in standby.
What is VERY strange, is that you have all of the 3.3V aux ones, and 5V aux PIMM.

ATX only provides one 5V rail in standby, so if you see 5V in one place but not the other that's odd, and even better, since the 3v3 aux ones are actually converted from 5V - this proves that the 5VSB gets to your fuel just fine.

From this information I can deduce that either one of your DS1780 (monitoring chips) is fried or something on the board makes the monitoring not work - could be short of the 5V just before the monitoring input.


As for probing with multimeter, I advise putting the ground probe into one of the hard drive molex plugs - far away from the converter board.
This way you can safely touch the other probe to any trace and you will get readings (0v if you happen to touch ground obviously). In standby you should only see 5V.

Rigging your adapter to force the PSU to start can be done in one of two ways - figure out where your ATX plug has green wire (should be pin 14 - fourth starting from the orange ones, on the latch row) - you have to short that pin to ground.
It will not be easy since that signal is on the hard to access bottom row, unless you want to solder it to the actual pin. Luckily the neighboring 2 pins on the same row are ground , but the neighboring 4th pin in the next row is 5V - you need to be careful.

The same signal is available on the Fuel plug side on pin 23 - it's the second from the left on the top row. None of the neighboring signals are ground so be careful shorting.