Indy with SCSI2SD setup?

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coolfox
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Indy with SCSI2SD setup?

Unread postby coolfox » Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:30 am

Hello guys, new to the forums. I just picked up 2 Indys. Both R5000 Indys, both with XZs for $6 each at a computer recycle shop. (found a friend locally who traded an XL to me though) Now I confirmed the Indys work fine when I installed Irix 6.5 on one with a 2GB SCSI drive, however I want to go the SCSI2SD route as I really don't enjoy random errors that pop up on traditional hds anymore heh. My question is, what settings does the SCSI2SD need on it to work with the Indy? When I tried it with my Indy, it would pop up with a "SYNC Negotiation Error, resetting scsi bus" upon boot. When I try to partition and format the drive, this would always pop up as well, but it would proceed. Then when I try to install the installation tools, it would refuse to do it and say it can't find anything on the SCSI CDROM drive. (I know the CDROM drive works fine as it would install on the traditional HD just fine). Any help would be most appreciative!

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Re: Indy with SCSI2SD setup?

Unread postby dexter1 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:50 am

I was expecting a reply from Jirka or Tomvos, since they have first hand experience with the board inside an indy. From their posts i believe/remember that you have to make sure you get the latest firmware and set up the board with id 1 and parity enabled.

I will be getting my SCSI2SD board in the coming days, set up a wiki to document settings and going to test it with other SGI systems. Most older desktops come with the WD33C93 SCSI controller, so what works for the Indy should be fairly generic for Indigo2's and R3K Indigo's.

NOTE: O2's and Octanes have SCA connectors internally: It would be cool to have a SCA to 50pin converter which can be assembled in-line with a SCSI2SD board, mounted on an enclosure which you could fabricate to fit into a regular SCA bracket for the O2 or Octane. If anyone has ideas where to find such a converter we can have a go at this.

Alternatively, the O2 has an external HD68 SCSI connector. If that connector supports termination power, you can possibly run the SCSI2SD board on it. Will look butt-ugly, but then, so do i :)
Last edited by dexter1 on Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Indy with SCSI2SD setup?

Unread postby coolfox » Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:15 pm

Thank you for the reply. How about the SCSI2 option, shouldn't that be enabled? Also, should the terminators on the drive be off or on?

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Re: Indy with SCSI2SD setup?

Unread postby tomvos » Sat Mar 12, 2016 4:23 am

Hi,

I have the SCSI2SD board running in one of my Indys. I use exactly the parameters Dexter1 suggested:
- SCSI-ID = 1
- Enable Parity = ON
- Enable SCSI2 Mode = ON
The SD-Card is Sandisk Ultra 8GB Class 10. However I get some sync error messages during certain steps. Common messages are like

Code: Select all

- sc0,1,0: SYNC negotiation error, resetting SCSI bus.
- NOTICE: wd93 SCSI Bus=0 ID=1: SYNC negotiation error, resetting bus.

I'm not sure how severe this errors are. But it looks like the system is installing IRIX 6.5.15 without any problems.

Regarding the SCSI terminators:
  • One terminator is at the end of the internal SCSI cable.
  • I've put another terminator on the external SCSI connector at the backside of the Indy.
  • The SCSI2SD terminator resistors have been removed since it's not the endpoint of the SCSI chain.
I had much more problems with this setup when using earlier releases of the firmware. Release 4.6 seems to work fine. Furthermore, using an external SCSI terminator seems to be good idea. I hope this helps a little bit.

Any suggestion how to avoid the SYNC negotiation error are welcomed.
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Re: Indy with SCSI2SD setup?

Unread postby ClassicHasClass » Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:29 pm

The sync "error" is known; the SCSI2SD only supports async. It shouldn't affect anything other than being incredibly annoying.
smit happens.

:Fuel: bigred, 900MHz R16K, 4GB RAM, V12 DCD, 6.5.30
:Indy: indy, 150MHz R4400SC, 256MB RAM, XL24, 6.5.10
:Indigo2IMP: purplehaze, 175MHz R10000, Solid IMPACT
probably posted from Image bruce, Quad 2.5GHz PowerPC 970MP, 16GB RAM, Mac OS X 10.4.11
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Re: Indy with SCSI2SD setup?

Unread postby tomvos » Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:12 am

Ah, thanks for the hint. Then I'll simply ignore this slight annoyance.
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Re: Indy with SCSI2SD setup?

Unread postby astouffer » Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:15 am

Any difference in speed when using this compared to an "old fashioned" drive?

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Re: Indy with SCSI2SD setup?

Unread postby ClassicHasClass » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:05 pm

I don't know about the Indy, but any speed difference on my Solbourne was marginal at best. It's mostly convenience and greater reliability than these aging older SCSI drives.
smit happens.

:Fuel: bigred, 900MHz R16K, 4GB RAM, V12 DCD, 6.5.30
:Indy: indy, 150MHz R4400SC, 256MB RAM, XL24, 6.5.10
:Indigo2IMP: purplehaze, 175MHz R10000, Solid IMPACT
probably posted from Image bruce, Quad 2.5GHz PowerPC 970MP, 16GB RAM, Mac OS X 10.4.11
plus IBM POWER6 p520 * Apple Network Server 500 * RDI PrecisionBook * BeBox * Solbourne S3000 * Commodore 128 * many more...

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Re: Indy with SCSI2SD setup?

Unread postby jan-jaap » Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:15 am

astouffer wrote:Any difference in speed when using this compared to an "old fashioned" drive?

Performance

Code: Select all

As currently implemented:
Transfer Size (bytes):  512     2048     8192    65536
Read                  2MB/s  2.1MB/s  2.5MB/s  2.6MB/s
Write               125kB/s  441kB/s  1.5MB/s  2.3MB/s

Any SCSI disk made in the last 20 years should be able to beat that, except maybe the 512byte block reads.
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Re: Indy with SCSI2SD setup?

Unread postby coolfox » Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:05 pm

Well i got it to work. Though, this was removing the physical CDROM drive all together and network installing with DINA. Strange...

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Re: Indy with SCSI2SD setup?

Unread postby ClassicHasClass » Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:12 pm

That sounds like a termination problem.
smit happens.

:Fuel: bigred, 900MHz R16K, 4GB RAM, V12 DCD, 6.5.30
:Indy: indy, 150MHz R4400SC, 256MB RAM, XL24, 6.5.10
:Indigo2IMP: purplehaze, 175MHz R10000, Solid IMPACT
probably posted from Image bruce, Quad 2.5GHz PowerPC 970MP, 16GB RAM, Mac OS X 10.4.11
plus IBM POWER6 p520 * Apple Network Server 500 * RDI PrecisionBook * BeBox * Solbourne S3000 * Commodore 128 * many more...

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Re: Indy with SCSI2SD setup?

Unread postby coolfox » Wed Mar 16, 2016 1:44 am

I thought so too, but I tried every single setting there is, without termination, with..etc..

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Re: Indy with SCSI2SD setup?

Unread postby tomvos » Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:16 am

astouffer wrote:Any difference in speed when using this compared to an "old fashioned" drive?


Well, it's quite slow. But then, it's quieter and creates less heat, too.

I've run diskperf to verify my subjective feeling of "it's quite slow":

Code: Select all

Empress 2# diskperf -W -D -n SCSI2SD-Indy150PC -t 10 -c 100m testfile
#---------------------------------------------------------
# Disk Performance Test Results Generated By Diskperf V1.2
#
# Test name     : SCSI2SD-Indy150PC
# Test date     : Wed Mar 16 08:00:28 2016
# Test machine  : IRIX Empress 6.5 01091820 IP22
# Test type     : XFS data subvolume
# Test path     : testfile
# Request sizes : min=4096 max=4194304
# Parameters    : direct=1 time=10 scale=1.000 delay=0.000
# XFS file size : 104857600 bytes
#---------------------------------------------------------
# req_size  fwd_wt  fwd_rd  bwd_wt  bwd_rd  rnd_wt  rnd_rd
#  (bytes)  (MB/s)  (MB/s)  (MB/s)  (MB/s)  (MB/s)  (MB/s)
#---------------------------------------------------------
       4096    0.72    0.88    0.62    0.80    0.72    0.86
       8192    1.10    1.02    0.66    1.01    0.53    1.00
      16384    1.26    1.12    0.39    1.12    0.07    1.10
      32768    1.32    1.17    0.69    0.98    0.22    1.17
      65536    1.14    1.23    0.96    1.19    0.31    1.22
     131072    1.30    1.25    1.06    1.18    0.57    1.25
     262144    1.28    1.27    1.26    1.27    0.95    1.16
     524288    1.09    1.28    1.25    1.24    1.09    1.09
    1048576    1.30    1.28    1.28    1.28    1.30    1.19
    2097152    1.42    1.27    1.33    1.28    1.08    1.28
    4194304    1.47    1.26    1.45    1.20    1.34    1.28


Compared to a SSD with an ACARD ARS-2320S adapter in my O2 (R12000, 300MHz):

Code: Select all

Interceptor 5% diskperf -W -D -n EVO840 -t10 -c100m /usr/people/thomas/testfile
#---------------------------------------------------------
# Disk Performance Test Results Generated By Diskperf V1.2
#
# Test name     : EVO840
# Test date     : Mon Mar 14 11:00:54 2016
# Test machine  : IRIX Interceptor 6.5 07202013 IP32
# Test type     : XFS data subvolume
# Test path     : /usr/people/thomas/testfile
# Request sizes : min=4096 max=4194304
# Parameters    : direct=1 time=10 scale=1.000 delay=0.000
# XFS file size : 104857600 bytes
#---------------------------------------------------------
# req_size  fwd_wt  fwd_rd  bwd_wt  bwd_rd  rnd_wt  rnd_rd
#  (bytes)  (MB/s)  (MB/s)  (MB/s)  (MB/s)  (MB/s)  (MB/s)
#---------------------------------------------------------
       4096    9.05    8.14    9.13    7.31    9.05    7.40
       8192   12.98   12.31   13.84   11.49   13.74   11.45
      16384   17.65   16.18   18.68   15.41   18.60   15.35
      32768   22.11   19.47   22.67   18.91   22.68   18.90
      65536   25.17   22.54   25.44   22.15   25.39   22.14
     131072   26.92   23.71   26.97   23.32   26.96   23.30
     262144   27.85   24.50   27.89   24.13   27.88   24.12
     524288   28.31   24.79   28.37   24.63   28.28   24.64
    1048576   28.87   24.96   28.88   24.94   28.84   24.95
    2097152   30.00   26.00   30.08   25.94   29.97   25.99
    4194304   30.61   26.58   30.62   26.57   30.60   26.58
:Fuel: :Octane2: :O2: :O2: :1600SW: :Indy: :Indy:
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dexter1
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Re: Indy with SCSI2SD setup?

Unread postby dexter1 » Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:18 am

I managed to get irix 6.5.22 on an R5K Indy with the SCSI2SD board. It's not particularly snappy, and that first boot is agonizing, but i have good hopes the system will be more usable tonight.

and i may have found a solution to the "SYNC negotiation error".

This is from /var/sysgen/master.d/wd93 :

Code: Select all

/*  Bitmap of target ID's for which synchronous SCSI mode may be
        negotiated (per scsi adapter, or channel or bus).  If unit
        doesn't support this mode, and the device obeys the protocols,
        then it is OK to enable it here;  If device doesn't follow
        protocols, then do not set the bit (devices that don't follow
        the protocols typically result in SCSI bus timeouts and
        resets.  At this time, only disks and DAT tape are considered
        candidates.  Set the 0x80 bit for ID 7, 0x40 for ID 6 ... 0x2
        for ID 1.  On machines that don't support sync. SCSI, (such as
        4D80 and 4D70) this variable will be zeroed at boot time.  This
        is a bitmap per adapter; for systems with a single SCSI
        channel, you only need to change the first value.
*/
u_char wd93_syncenable[SC_MAXADAP] = {0xfe /* scsibus 0 */,
        0xfe /* scsibus 1 */, 0xfe /* scsibus 2 */, 0xfe /* scsibus 3 */};

By setting the first hex from 0xfe to 0xfc it should disable sync negotiation for id 1 on scsi bus 0 (which is the internal bus). Then autoconfig and reboot.

I'll try this out tonight and let you know...

Update: i have disabled sync-enable for my indy with SCSI2SD and there are no more SCSI errors after a reboot. Result!
Last edited by dexter1 on Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Indy with SCSI2SD setup?

Unread postby Trippynet » Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:00 am

What SD cards are people using with these? Have you tried higher-performance ones to see if this helps? Or is it an inherent limit of the adapter?
Systems in use:
:Indigo2IMP: - Nitrogen: R10000 195MHz CPU, 384MB RAM, SolidIMPACT Graphics, 36GB 15k HDD & 300GB 10k HDD, 100Mb/s NIC, New/quiet fans, IRIX 6.5.22
:Fuel: - Lithium: R14000 600MHz CPU, 4GB RAM, V10 Graphics, 72GB 15k HDD & 300GB 10k HDD, 1Gb/s NIC, New/quiet fans, IRIX 6.5.30
Other system in storage: :O2: R5000 200MHz, 224MB RAM, 72GB 15k HDD, PSU fan mod, IRIX 6.5.30


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