Indigo Keyboard/Mouse converter

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MrWeedster
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Indigo Keyboard/Mouse converter

Unread postby MrWeedster » Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:27 am

Hi.

As the new indigo is on the way to me, im thinking about the keyboard and mouse problem.
There was a page describing how to build one (http://rshockley.dyndns.org/indigo.htm), but its dead.

The converters that were listed on ebay are long gone.

Does anybody have a backup of the above site?

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uunix
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Re: Indigo Keyboard/Mouse converter

Unread postby uunix » Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:47 am

Can't help, but I'd also be interested in something like that for the future.
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Re: Indigo Keyboard/Mouse converter

Unread postby robespierre » Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:39 am

A converter for Suns is here: http://kentie.net/article/sunkbd/
The SGI interface is similar (dual asynchronous serial), but uses higher voltages.

edit: actually it works the wrong way round.
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dexter1
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Re: Indigo Keyboard/Mouse converter

Unread postby dexter1 » Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:06 pm

MrWeedster wrote:There was a page describing how to build one (http://rshockley.dyndns.org/indigo.htm), but its dead.

Does anybody have a backup of the above site?


I have a backup, but unfortunately it is incomplete since i am missing the keyboard.hex and mouse.hex file.
Here it is:
rshockley.tgz
(62.39 KiB) Downloaded 34 times
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MrWeedster
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Re: Indigo Keyboard/Mouse converter

Unread postby MrWeedster » Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:55 am

I wrote the guy, he sent me the hex files (Rename accordingly)
Attachments
mouse.txt
rename to .hex
(1.55 KiB) Downloaded 33 times
keyboard.txt
rename to .hex
(3.7 KiB) Downloaded 26 times

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dexter1
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Re: Indigo Keyboard/Mouse converter

Unread postby dexter1 » Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:24 pm

That is sweet: Since this now looks complete, it begs to be put in the Wiki! Adding on my todo list...
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pentium
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Re: Indigo Keyboard/Mouse converter

Unread postby pentium » Tue Feb 16, 2016 3:29 pm

Has there ever been a push to update the adapter using cheaper and more modern components?
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Re: Indigo Keyboard/Mouse converter

Unread postby jan-jaap » Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:43 am

pentium wrote:Has there ever been a push to update the adapter using cheaper and more modern components?

I'd like to have something that actually worked behind a KVM switch.

Also these days there's not just the matter of connecting a PS2 keyboard to an Indigo. I'd like to connect an Octane2 an an Onyx2 to a modern (USB + DVI) KVM switch. DVI KVM switches with analog switching capability are easy to find, but PS2 + USB support and DVI with resolutions > 1600x1200 seems impossible to find.

What would be truly awesome would be some sort of module design where you can connect a modern (USB) keyboard on one end, and it emulates an SGI "4D" or PS/2 interface on the other. It could probably be done using an Arduino or Teensy. Cost isn't even my motivation, I just want something that works, and works reliably, with a KVM so I can eliminate the zoo of keyboards, mice and glass tubes at my place.

I was sort of expecting to tackle this myself at some point, but it will be a while ...
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Re: Indigo Keyboard/Mouse converter

Unread postby robespierre » Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:27 am

Aren't all USB keyboards crap by design though? the HID protocol doesn't even allow N-key rollover.
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Re: Indigo Keyboard/Mouse converter

Unread postby Rhodamine » Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:46 pm

jan-jaap wrote:What would be truly awesome would be some sort of module design where you can connect a modern (USB) keyboard on one end, and it emulates an SGI "4D" or PS/2 interface on the other. It could probably be done using an Arduino or Teensy. Cost isn't even my motivation, I just want something that works, and works reliably, with a KVM so I can eliminate the zoo of keyboards, mice and glass tubes at my end.


I've been thinking of something similar myself. A modular KVM, based around a eurocard cage. The back plane interfacing to a standard monitor, keyboard and mouse setup. Each SGI would connect into the back plane via an interface board. The interface board coming in different flavours, a generic for more standard systems and more bespoke for the legacy machines such as indigo etc. I would hope it would allow switching between at least 6 systems and being bespoke shouldn't suffer from some of the issues that other people have found.

Great plan, do I have the time to actually spec, design, prototype and debug... Nope. Maybe one day

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pentium
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Re: Indigo Keyboard/Mouse converter

Unread postby pentium » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:04 pm

I couldn't care about USB support. PS/2 ain't gonna go out of style any time soon.

I just don't wanna pay about $50 in parts each time I need to make a new adapter. :roll:
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Re: Indigo Keyboard/Mouse converter

Unread postby jan-jaap » Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:34 am

pentium wrote:I couldn't care about USB support. PS/2 ain't gonna go out of style any time soon.

Consider this situation. I want to cluster these systems on a single keyboard + mouse and two screens:

* An Onyx2 (PS/2 + analogue)
* An Octane2 with V12 + DCD (PS/2 + 2x DVI)
* A Tezro (USB or PS/2 + 2x DVI)
* A Hackintosh PC (USB + 2x DVI)

As you can see, I've got analogue and digital screen outputs, and USB and PS/2 keyboards and mice. I don't want to dumb down the displays to analogue for the sake of that Onyx2.

This restricts me to a DVI based dual head KVM switch (DVI-I to be precise -- it must pass the analogue signal of the Onyx2).

Next issue is practical: I've never seen a KVM with DVI and PS/2 ports which supports resolutions > 1600x1200. I guess nobody bothered to make the chipset for that? And I'm pretty sure that was not a dual head either.

Dual head DVI + USB KVMs on the other hand are easy to find, I've been using them for years at work. And unlike the older VGA + PS/2 KVM's they actually *work*. Not work "most of the time, except ...", or " works except this system XYZ has issues with keyboard repeat rate", or "works except this system ABC (sometimes) needs to be rebooted after I switch inputs...", if you've ever used a PS/2 KVM you know the drill.

So that's why PS/2 is out too. I will happily sacrifice the capability to support more than a maximum of six simultaneously depressed keys plus the modifier keys (shift, alt etc..) in exchange for that. (that is apparently the N-key rollover limit for USB, even though apparently many keyboards have a problem with more than 3 keys due to the way their diode matrix is wired). In either case, this never bothered me. Unpredictable KVM behavior on the other hand can be immensely frustrating.

So this process of elimination leaves me with a DVI + USB based KVM, plus the need for two USB-PS/2 converters. These exist btw, although PS/2 emulator is the better term, but cost ~ $100.

The alternative is to buy monitors with 3 digital and 1 analogue input and switch video inputs at the monitors, and use an old PS/2 KVM to switch only the keyboard + mouse. This hack would be rather unpractical in day-to-day use.


On the other end of the room, I have a cluster of older systems, basically ranging from Professional IRIS to Octane1 MXE. For those I can settle for an analogue, PS/2 based KVM (and live with the occasional weirdness). Except, back on topic, the existing Indigo keyboard/mouse converter doesn't work with a KVM. I've spent hundreds of euros and tried many versions, including ones supposedly made for SGI & SUN, and it won't work. What works (mostly) is powering up e.g. an Indigo with a real keyboard and mouse, and then hotplugging the KVM into the loop. Sorry, but that's BS. Had this worked I would have bought a dozen of these things years ago and lived happily ever after.
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To accentuate the special identity of the IRIS 4D/70, Silicon Graphics' designers selected a new color palette. The machine's coating blends dark grey, raspberry and beige colors into a pleasing harmony. (IRIS 4D/70 Superworkstation Technical Report)

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jan-jaap
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Re: Indigo Keyboard/Mouse converter

Unread postby jan-jaap » Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:20 am

MrWeedster wrote:The converters that were listed on ebay are long gone.

They're back!
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To accentuate the special identity of the IRIS 4D/70, Silicon Graphics' designers selected a new color palette. The machine's coating blends dark grey, raspberry and beige colors into a pleasing harmony. (IRIS 4D/70 Superworkstation Technical Report)

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Re: Indigo Keyboard/Mouse converter

Unread postby japes » Wed Apr 13, 2016 4:57 pm

What's the problem with using the converters with a KVM...I have one I built, but don't think I've had it on a KVM. Perhaps it could be corrected in the software. I don't remember if the software was provided in any form besides the .HEX files and I'm not much of an asm guy - especially PIC.
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jan-jaap
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Re: Indigo Keyboard/Mouse converter

Unread postby jan-jaap » Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:21 am

japes wrote:What's the problem with using the converters with a KVM.

The IRIX system wouldn't see the keyboard/mouse on power up if the KVM was in the chain.

So you'd have to attach a real keyboard + mouse to the system, power up, unplug keyboard + mouse and 'hot' attach the system to the KVM. Every time you (re)boot the system.

I tried at least three different KVMs, some of them supposedly working with SGIs ("Rose" iirc). But I think the "working with SGI" means "works with SGI with genuine PS/2 interface and will deal with SOG graphics cards". It's not so hard to find a KVM that will do that.
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To accentuate the special identity of the IRIS 4D/70, Silicon Graphics' designers selected a new color palette. The machine's coating blends dark grey, raspberry and beige colors into a pleasing harmony. (IRIS 4D/70 Superworkstation Technical Report)


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