Couple of Fuel queries

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Trippynet
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Couple of Fuel queries

Unread postby Trippynet » Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:09 am

Seems as if my Fuel is also beginning to suffer from dying battery syndrome. It's not yet got to the level of losing its MAC like jaan-jap's blue Fuel did last year, however its timekeeping is becoming ever more erratic, and yesterday it also lost the env monitoring setting as well.

For now, I've noted down the MAC so that I can set it back to what it was in the event of disaster, and the clock issue has been worked around for now with a startup script to set the clock from another system on my network. However, the env monitoring issue it has developed is more annoying as the setting keeps turning itself back on, meaning I've currently got to remove the case, hook up the L1 to my laptop and switch it off to prevent the system powering down after 30 seconds (slower replacement fans).

As a short term fix, does anyone know if I can use either of the external serial ports to control the L1? I did try them, but without any joy (unless I'm doing something wrong). Alternatively, has anyone ever used the RJ11 socket on the back labelled L1? Just trying to find a short term workaround which doesn't involve me having to pull the side off my Fuel every time I want to power it up.

Of course, longer term I'm going to have to look at replacing the battery (or batteries as it may be). I think the replacement one for the clock is the ST Micro M4T28-BR12SH1. However, I'm not sure if this has anything to do with the env monitoring setting changing itself. Hope the battery in the Dallas chip isn't also failing, although I wouldn't be surprised.
Systems in use:
:Indigo2IMP: - Nitrogen: R10000 195MHz CPU, 384MB RAM, SolidIMPACT Graphics, 36GB 15k HDD & 300GB 10k HDD, 100Mb/s NIC, New/quiet fans, IRIX 6.5.22
:Fuel: - Lithium: R14000 600MHz CPU, 4GB RAM, V10 Graphics, 36GB 15k HDD & 300GB 10k HDD, 1Gb/s NIC, New/quiet fans, IRIX 6.5.30
Other system in storage: :O2: R5000 200MHz, 224MB RAM, 72GB 15k HDD, PSU fan mod, IRIX 6.5.30

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ClassicHasClass
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Re: Couple of Fuel queries

Unread postby ClassicHasClass » Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:38 am

On a Fuel? Just use the on-motherboard serial port. 38400, 8N1.

Replacing the Fuel battery is pretty straightforward. I remember posting on a thread about it. You can get a larger capacity battery which is compatible.
smit happens.

:Fuel: bigred, 900MHz R16K, 4GB RAM, V12 DCD, 6.5.30
:Indy: indy, 150MHz R4400SC, 256MB RAM, XL24, 6.5.10
:Indigo2IMP: purplehaze, 175MHz R10000, Solid IMPACT
probably posted from Image bruce, Quad 2.5GHz PowerPC 970MP, 16GB RAM, Mac OS X 10.4.11
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Re: Couple of Fuel queries

Unread postby recondas » Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:06 am

Trippynet wrote:As a short term fix, does anyone know if I can use either of the external serial ports to control the L1?
Haven't had the opportunity to use it myself, but kubatyszko's method might be exactly what you're looking for: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16728975&p=7374851&#p7374851

ClassicHasClass wrote:Replacing the Fuel battery is pretty straightforward. I remember posting on a thread about it.
This One? :D viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16728064
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* InfiniteReality/Reality Software, IRIX 6.5 Release *
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Trippynet
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Re: Couple of Fuel queries

Unread postby Trippynet » Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:43 am

Thanks both! I'll give kubatyszko's method a try. Of course, the one problem may be that if the env setting is being lost, it might lose the console option too and go back to the internal port again.

Classic: I can use the internal one, and did so today to switch environmental monitoring off again. The problem is that every time I power up the Fuel, it means I've got to pull the side panel off to get at the serial cable. Hence me wondering if I could make L1 access a bit easier by using an external port for it instead.

Thanks also for that thread with the higher capacity battery option, I'll see if I can buy one of those. I've found the original one for sale over here with Farnell, it's only a few pounds. But if I can get a higher capacity one, that'll be even better.

Edit: Just found the M4T32 with Farnell. £9, which isn't too bad. Time to order one I think :)
Systems in use:
:Indigo2IMP: - Nitrogen: R10000 195MHz CPU, 384MB RAM, SolidIMPACT Graphics, 36GB 15k HDD & 300GB 10k HDD, 100Mb/s NIC, New/quiet fans, IRIX 6.5.22
:Fuel: - Lithium: R14000 600MHz CPU, 4GB RAM, V10 Graphics, 36GB 15k HDD & 300GB 10k HDD, 1Gb/s NIC, New/quiet fans, IRIX 6.5.30
Other system in storage: :O2: R5000 200MHz, 224MB RAM, 72GB 15k HDD, PSU fan mod, IRIX 6.5.30

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Re: Couple of Fuel queries

Unread postby nyef » Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:15 pm

Trippynet wrote:However, the env monitoring issue it has developed is more annoying as the setting keeps turning itself back on, meaning I've currently got to remove the case, hook up the L1 to my laptop and switch it off to prevent the system powering down after 30 seconds (slower replacement fans).

FWIW, I'm planning on adding a short DB9 M-F extension to run the L1 serial port out to a PCI slot cover (having salvaged a suitable piece of metal from an old SVGA card). A DB9 M connector, a DB9 F connector, a couple of jackscrews, a couple of corresponding nuts, some cable, and hey, no more having to open the case to get at the L1 serial port (at the cost of taking up a PCI slot, but that's not a problem for me at this point).

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Re: Couple of Fuel queries

Unread postby Trippynet » Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:48 am

Not a bad idea that. I do have a spare serial extender cable kicking around. I'll have to check our pile of spare kit at work and see if I can scrounge a suitable backplate from there.

Thanks for the suggestion :)
Systems in use:
:Indigo2IMP: - Nitrogen: R10000 195MHz CPU, 384MB RAM, SolidIMPACT Graphics, 36GB 15k HDD & 300GB 10k HDD, 100Mb/s NIC, New/quiet fans, IRIX 6.5.22
:Fuel: - Lithium: R14000 600MHz CPU, 4GB RAM, V10 Graphics, 36GB 15k HDD & 300GB 10k HDD, 1Gb/s NIC, New/quiet fans, IRIX 6.5.30
Other system in storage: :O2: R5000 200MHz, 224MB RAM, 72GB 15k HDD, PSU fan mod, IRIX 6.5.30

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Re: Couple of Fuel queries

Unread postby Trippynet » Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:48 am

OK, so that's the Fuel resurrected for now.

After putting it off for quite some time, I finally caved in and ordered both a new Dallas battery and a new timekeeper battery as well (the high-capacity version). I also ordered a DIP extractor after hearing Classic's recommendation. Both batteries replaced, and I thought that'd help fix my Fuel's recent woes, but not to be. After powering it up, I dived into the PROM and checked to ensure it had remembered its MAC (it had), then booted into IRIX. No functioning mouse, and just beeps from the keyboard - and they'd worked fine in the PROM.

Powered it down, then after it switched off, it automatically powered back up 5 seconds later with a completely red display. I was then treated to numerous powering down/ups from it, and often the power would be down and the L1 would insist it was up.

In the end, I've dismantled the thing, pulled out all the cables, RAM, V10 etc, then carefully reseated everything and fired it back up. And it seems to be working OK for now, it's into IRIX and it's recognising my keyboard and mouse again, which is good. IRIX date is remembered, but it still reports a ludicrous one in the L1, and every time I try to change it, it complains the format of my input string is wrong (running date 20151017134701). Still, I'm not too bothered as IRIX itself is reporting the correct date at least!
Systems in use:
:Indigo2IMP: - Nitrogen: R10000 195MHz CPU, 384MB RAM, SolidIMPACT Graphics, 36GB 15k HDD & 300GB 10k HDD, 100Mb/s NIC, New/quiet fans, IRIX 6.5.22
:Fuel: - Lithium: R14000 600MHz CPU, 4GB RAM, V10 Graphics, 36GB 15k HDD & 300GB 10k HDD, 1Gb/s NIC, New/quiet fans, IRIX 6.5.30
Other system in storage: :O2: R5000 200MHz, 224MB RAM, 72GB 15k HDD, PSU fan mod, IRIX 6.5.30

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Re: Couple of Fuel queries

Unread postby kubatyszko » Sat Oct 17, 2015 7:47 pm

You're welcome ;) Glad it worked, I think I need to become more active, seems a lot of people refer to my research :P
Designer of Fuel ATX PSU adapter board : viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16730291&p=7386863#p7386400
(now ships from USA)

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Re: Couple of Fuel queries

Unread postby Trippynet » Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:17 am

It's one of the reasons why Nekochan is so great for us less-experienced types.

I searched around a lot and used a number of bits in the end! There was your info about serial/PROM stuff, ShadeOfBlue's info about the higher-capacity timekeeper battery module, Classic's info for changing them (and recommendation of the DIP extractor tool), jan-jaap's write-up from his issues (including details of the Dallas chip and info about the serial number), hamei's findings that the Fuel requires a graphics board to boot (hence me removing and replacing it as part of the strip down). I've probably forgotten other bits in there as well, but you get the drift.

Ultimately though, it's about learning from other people's findings and the result is that I have a fully functioning Fuel again. Well, until something else in it becomes flaky anyway. It's definitely nowhere near as well made and bullet-proof as my Indigo 2!
Systems in use:
:Indigo2IMP: - Nitrogen: R10000 195MHz CPU, 384MB RAM, SolidIMPACT Graphics, 36GB 15k HDD & 300GB 10k HDD, 100Mb/s NIC, New/quiet fans, IRIX 6.5.22
:Fuel: - Lithium: R14000 600MHz CPU, 4GB RAM, V10 Graphics, 36GB 15k HDD & 300GB 10k HDD, 1Gb/s NIC, New/quiet fans, IRIX 6.5.30
Other system in storage: :O2: R5000 200MHz, 224MB RAM, 72GB 15k HDD, PSU fan mod, IRIX 6.5.30

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Re: Couple of Fuel queries

Unread postby Trippynet » Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:03 am

Just in case it's of use to anyone, I've just had an e-mail from Digi-Key, informing me that the Dallas battery (part DS1742W-120+) is now obsolete and no longer being manufactured. I'm not sure if there's a replacement compatible one (I couldn't find one), so if you have a Fuel, you might want to order up a spare whilst stocks are still available. I've just done this myself.

Apparently the battery won't start to deplete until it's connected (not sure how true this is), so spare ones should still work OK in a few years time.

Anyway, just a head's up. If someone does find a compatible one that's still being made, it'd be good to know the part number!
Systems in use:
:Indigo2IMP: - Nitrogen: R10000 195MHz CPU, 384MB RAM, SolidIMPACT Graphics, 36GB 15k HDD & 300GB 10k HDD, 100Mb/s NIC, New/quiet fans, IRIX 6.5.22
:Fuel: - Lithium: R14000 600MHz CPU, 4GB RAM, V10 Graphics, 36GB 15k HDD & 300GB 10k HDD, 1Gb/s NIC, New/quiet fans, IRIX 6.5.30
Other system in storage: :O2: R5000 200MHz, 224MB RAM, 72GB 15k HDD, PSU fan mod, IRIX 6.5.30

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Re: Couple of Fuel queries

Unread postby tomvos » Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:02 pm

Does anybody know the difference between the DS1742W-120+ and DS1742W+150+ model? Running a diff over both datasheets showed no difference.
:Fuel: :Octane2: :O2: :O2: :1600SW: :Indy: :Indy:
Where subtlety fails us we must simply make do with cream pies.

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Re: Couple of Fuel queries

Unread postby Trippynet » Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:22 am

I can find very little difference as well, although it's worth noting that the DS1742W+150+ is also listed as obsolete an no longer under manufacture.
Systems in use:
:Indigo2IMP: - Nitrogen: R10000 195MHz CPU, 384MB RAM, SolidIMPACT Graphics, 36GB 15k HDD & 300GB 10k HDD, 100Mb/s NIC, New/quiet fans, IRIX 6.5.22
:Fuel: - Lithium: R14000 600MHz CPU, 4GB RAM, V10 Graphics, 36GB 15k HDD & 300GB 10k HDD, 1Gb/s NIC, New/quiet fans, IRIX 6.5.30
Other system in storage: :O2: R5000 200MHz, 224MB RAM, 72GB 15k HDD, PSU fan mod, IRIX 6.5.30

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Re: Couple of Fuel queries

Unread postby kubatyszko » Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:12 am

tomvos wrote:Does anybody know the difference between the DS1742W-120+ and DS1742W+150+ model? Running a diff over both datasheets showed no difference.


The 120 or 150 indicates latency - 120nsec and 150nsec respectively, there is a small chance that a 150 model will work but if Fuel expects response in strict 120nsec you may be out of luck.

Also, the 120 and 150 are the only ones working with 3.3v, faster ones (85, 100) are for 5v so those won't work at all.

Cheers
Designer of Fuel ATX PSU adapter board : viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16730291&p=7386863#p7386400
(now ships from USA)

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Re: Couple of Fuel queries

Unread postby tomvos » Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:29 am

Thanks for the clarification. I just bought two DS1742W-120 two weeks ago. Looks like staying with the forum recommendation was a good decision. ;-)
:Fuel: :Octane2: :O2: :O2: :1600SW: :Indy: :Indy:
Where subtlety fails us we must simply make do with cream pies.


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