Fuel PSU problems

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kubatyszko
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Re: Fuel PSU problems

Unread postby kubatyszko » Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:15 am

So then:

Table for Sparkle (460W):

+3.3V 27.0A
+5V 29.0A
+12V I/O 15.0A
+12V CPU 16.5A
+5Vsb 2.0A
-12V 0.8A

Table for NMB (430W):

+3.3V 45.0A
+5V 27.0A
+12V I/O 16.0A
+12V CPU 18.0A
+5Vsb 3.0A
-12V 0.6A

Table for HIPRO (460W):

+3.3V 28.0A
+5V 30.0A (both 5+3V3 should not exceed 200Watt)
+12V I/O 18.0A (this is 12V1, not sure if this is CPU or IO)
+12V CPU 15.0A (this is 12V2, same as above, the PSU states that both 12V rails should not exceed 30A)
+5Vsb 2.0A
-12V 1.0A


If we were to take the lower bounds of all three, we'd get:

+3.3V 27.0A
+5V 27.0A
+12V I/O 15.0A
+12V CPU 15.0A
+5Vsb 2.0A
-12V 0.6A

ATX meeting those requirements should be fairly easy to find.

I've just installed my ATX in the Fuel and will be using it permanently, see how stable it is over long time,
I've also created cron job:

0,15,30,45 * * * * (date && l1cmd env) >> /var/adm/l1cmd_env

this saves env state every 15 minutes, should be perfect to have good overview of PSU stability.

Now, I only need to solve this annoying vibration issue in the PSU - I bought it used, and the FAN is horizontally mounted, probably it needs replacement (which will cost me more than another such PSU), it might also be related to the PSU being screwed only using 3 screws and not using that hanger hook like it's big brothers....
Designer of Fuel ATX PSU adapter board : viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16730291&p=7386863#p7386400
(now ships from USA)

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smj
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Re: Fuel PSU problems

Unread postby smj » Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:26 pm

Appreciate all the hard work going on here. Only comment: If I'm going to buy a PSU rather than use one I have on-hand, I'd take the top specs from kubatyszko's three tables rather than the minimums, then look for at least a Plus 80 Bronze efficiency rating. Idea being to not have to do this over again any time soon, and not have to ever worry about exceeding the supply. I'd guess this would still come in under $100 for a brand new PSU from a reputable seller with a quiet product.
Then? :IRIS3130: ... Now? :O3x02L: :A3504L:- :A3502L: :1600SW:+MLA :Fuel: :Octane2: :Octane: :Indigo2IMP: :Indy: ... Other: DEC :BA213: :BA123: Sun, DG AViiON, NeXT :Cube:

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Re: Fuel PSU problems

Unread postby kubatyszko » Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:44 pm

Valid point, we were just trying to establish minimum that should work okay, and finding the top-specs PSU will be not be very easy (unless you go for civilian models of Sparkle or NMB ), plus this is more for people who *need* a PSU ie. don't have one working etc - thus have no choice :)
The problem with today's top-spec PSU's is that most of them focus on the 12V rails for GFX rather than 5 or 3V3.

One more important thing for the public -- overall power rating is NOT a good indicator whether PSU works or not - my another 600W PSU barely matches the lower bounds, with the exception of 5V (24A), ALWAYS CHECK the detailed specs.
Designer of Fuel ATX PSU adapter board : viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16730291&p=7386863#p7386400
(now ships from USA)

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Re: Fuel PSU problems

Unread postby smj » Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:46 pm

Understood and appreciated! I had figured I might wind up looking at 1kW PSUs to meet all the output requirements and just not putting much of a load on them, but your point about 12V versus 3/5V is well taken. I should look up some of the ATX server PSUs to see what that segment looks like...
Then? :IRIS3130: ... Now? :O3x02L: :A3504L:- :A3502L: :1600SW:+MLA :Fuel: :Octane2: :Octane: :Indigo2IMP: :Indy: ... Other: DEC :BA213: :BA123: Sun, DG AViiON, NeXT :Cube:

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Re: Fuel PSU problems

Unread postby kubatyszko » Fri Jan 01, 2016 12:57 am

Thread lives on!

Small PSA for those experimenting with ATX and Fuel, I just tried a 400W PSU with one of my adapters, and despite voltage level issues it works okay, the Fuel has a V10, 800MHz PIMM, 2G RAM and one IBM 18GB HDD - I'd say it's a rather good configuration, except V10.
The PSU has the following specs:

3v3 : 28A
5v : 40A
12v : 16A (only one rail)

According to our research from this thread, it's fine on the 5v but definitely lacking on the 12v and 3v3 rails - and that's clearly visible in L1 output...

It's clear the PSU has difficulty regulating the voltages, 12V at boot and then 3v3 during operation, but even then the machine runs fine.
I have not tried loading the machine up with any software and I won't (because I'm also missing that blue air-duct - using a regular household fan to improve the heat exchange ;) ).

WARNING - this is just an experiment (because I used up my PSU's and this was the only I had left), and I highly advise against using underpowered PSU in *your* Fuel...


Code: Select all

001a01-L1>
001a01-L1>power down
001a01-L1>power up

001a01 ATTN: 3.3V high warning limit reached  3.698V.
001a01-L1>
001a01 ATTN: XIO 12V bias low warning limit reached 10.562V.

001a01 ATTN: PIMM0 12V bias low warning limit reached 10.750V.

001a01 ATTN: 12V IO low warning limit reached 10.750V.

001a01 ATTN: 12V low warning limit reached 10.562V.

001a01 ATTN: 3.3V level stabilized @  3.629V.

001a01 ATTN: 3.3V high warning limit reached  3.646V.

001a01 ATTN: 3.3V level stabilized @  3.629V.

001a01 ATTN: 3.3V high warning limit reached  3.646V.

001a01 ATTN: 3.3V level stabilized @  3.629V.

001a01 ATTN: 3.3V high warning limit reached  3.646V.

001a01 ATTN: 3.3V level stabilized @  3.629V.

Designer of Fuel ATX PSU adapter board : viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16730291&p=7386863#p7386400
(now ships from USA)

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Re: Fuel PSU problems

Unread postby gsruff » Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:44 pm

I believe the Sparkle PSU (FSP460-60PFN) in my Fuel has died, so I'm planning to replace it with an ATX PSU as others have done in this thread with the final goal of adding the "fan simulator" circuit that kubatyszko created and re-enabling env monitoring. I've taken my dead original PSU apart and was able to remove the extra SGI monitoring chip. I've attached some photos for future reference. :mrgreen:

The ATX PSU that I bought is an Antec True Power TPII-430. http://www.antec.com/specs/TPII430_spe.html Its current output on each rail exceeds the maximum provided by the original Sparkle, so hopefully it will work just fine. I'll post an update once it arrives.

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Re: Fuel PSU problems

Unread postby gsruff » Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:49 am

I'm happy to report another success following in the footsteps of Pontus and Recondas. I finished creating the ATX-to-WTX cables last night and was able to successfully power up my Fuel after disabling env monitoring.

The PSU I'm using does have a two wire connector coming from its fan, but sadly the wires do not seem to be labeled on the circuit board inside the fan. I'll try to suss out which is which this evening and connect them up to pins 12 and 24 on the P1 connector, so I can hopefully re-enable env monitoring.

Many thanks to all who contributed to this solution! :-D

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Re: Fuel PSU problems

Unread postby kubatyszko » Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:56 am

gsruff wrote:I'm happy to report another success following in the footsteps of Pontus and Recondas. I finished creating the ATX-to-WTX cables last night and was able to successfully power up my Fuel after disabling env monitoring.

The PSU I'm using does have a two wire connector coming from its fan, but sadly the wires do not seem to be labeled on the circuit board inside the fan. I'll try to suss out which is which this evening and connect them up to pins 12 and 24 on the P1 connector, so I can hopefully re-enable env monitoring.

Many thanks to all who contributed to this solution! :-D


One of the fan wires might either be ground (shared with the rest of PSU - trivial to check) - then the other should be the tacho signal.
Or it could be that one wire is fan RPM and another speed control - but then it would be the PWM variant that requires certain square wave to control the speed. PWM fans normally use 4-wire connectors - also easy to verify by taking the PSU apart and looking at the fan.

Fuel controls speed differently - by adjusting voltage supplied to the fan (on 3-wire fan connectors).
Designer of Fuel ATX PSU adapter board : viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16730291&p=7386863#p7386400
(now ships from USA)

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Re: Fuel PSU problems

Unread postby kubatyszko » Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:21 pm

kubatyszko wrote:There's no point making PCB for swapping 24 wires + circuit with whole 4 components.
PCB will also make for bad cooling and it will be hard to place it inside of the chassis.


LOL, it looks like I ate my own words haha.

The advantage of a PCB is repeatability of the process, as long as the soldering is done properly the adapters work.
Making adapters with swapped wires is prone to (costly) errors.
Amount of work is about the same (PCB version requires adding a lot of solder on the traces to ensure current capacity - this takes time).
Designer of Fuel ATX PSU adapter board : viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16730291&p=7386863#p7386400
(now ships from USA)

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Re: Fuel PSU problems

Unread postby kubatyszko » Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:13 am

Thread lives on!. I just stumbled upon an interesting reddit post regarding PCB's with very thick copper layer:

https://www.reddit.com/r/electronics/comments/5i9wxd/i_just_received_my_20_ounce_pcb_soldering_is/

Direct link to the image:

https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/gHochdce/irccloudcapture-1320676838.jpg

basically this PCB has copper of 0.7mm thickness - that would be nice for my ATX adapters to avoid adding solder on the traces for current capacity..

But... those thick PCB's are usually available as special orders, and cost mere ... $2000 a pop... (well I guess SGI could have been charging this much ;) )

Keep that in mind next time you see my ATX adapter in the wild and look at the (ugly) solder all over the place.

Cheers
Designer of Fuel ATX PSU adapter board : viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16730291&p=7386863#p7386400
(now ships from USA)

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Re: Fuel PSU problems

Unread postby edefault » Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:05 pm

When by the end of last year a second out of my precious five SGI Fuels refused to power on, I stumbled upon your ready-to-use ATX PSU adaptor on ebay :-)

Yesterday I finally found the time to put it into the dead fuel, and boy! It sure saved my day. That little thing worked like a charm immediately, just with a 450W standard ATX PSU I found in an ASUS/Intel PC leftover in my hardware vault. My beloved workhorse cured!

To be honest, I read through this thread only *after* my repair job.

And I really don't mind the strange looks of the PCB, with sheer masses of solder on it.
To make aesthetics nicer, I'd suggest to have the tracks laser cut from a sheet of copper eventually, then glue the outcome to some blank carrier. That would not cost a fortune.

Thank you very much again! You're my hero.
Just curious - how many of these adaptors did you make yet?
I might need some more eventually :-)
Valueing life is not weakness; disregarding it is not strength. -Mirage-
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Re: Fuel PSU problems

Unread postby miod » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:05 pm

edefault wrote:Just curious - how many of these adaptors did you make yet?
I might need some more eventually :-)

Did you miss this thread?
http://forums.nekochan.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16730132
:Indigo:R4000 :Indigo:R4000 :Indigo:R4000 :Indigo2:R4400 :Indigo2IMP:R4400 :Indigo2:R8000 :Indigo2IMP:R10000 :Indy:R4000PC :Indy:R4000SC :Indy:R4600 :Indy:R5000SC :O2:R5000 :O2:RM7000 :Octane:2xR10000 :Octane:R12000 :O200:2xR12000 :O200: - :O200:2x2xR10000 :Fuel:R16000 :O3x0:4xR16000 :A350:
among more than 150 machines : Apollo, Data General, Digital, HP, IBM, MIPS before SGI, Motorola, NeXT, SGI, Solbourne, Sun...

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Re: Fuel PSU problems

Unread postby edefault » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:40 pm

Obviously, I did. Sigh.
Valueing life is not weakness; disregarding it is not strength. -Mirage-
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Re: Fuel PSU problems

Unread postby kubatyszko » Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:45 pm

edefault wrote:To make aesthetics nicer, I'd suggest to have the tracks laser cut from a sheet of copper eventually, then glue the outcome to some blank carrier. That would not cost a fortune.


Interesting idea, at the moment I nailed down the PCB layout and manufacturing process, using 6oz copper (about 3-6 times thicker than regular).
This keeps the cost in line and I don't need to add solder anymore - the biggest benefit is that it saves my time (adding solder takes very long - per each board).

edefault wrote:Thank you very much again! You're my hero.


Thanks, I'm glad people like my adapters. I'm pretty surprised by the demand, initially I only made two for myself (because my PSU was broken), that turned into a few more, and then almost mass-production ;).
Designer of Fuel ATX PSU adapter board : viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16730291&p=7386863#p7386400
(now ships from USA)


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