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Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:59 am 
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So... Long time no post. I'm slowly getting back at finishing my SGI setup. For the moment I'm using a huge 24'' trinitron with my Octane. I'm looking at replacing it with a nice recent LCD monitor. I was looking at the Philips Brilliance 298P4QJEB/00, 21/9 ratio with "multiview" functionality (basically two different video sources on screen side-by-side). the only catch is one source has to be displayport and the other DVI or hdmi. I found some reasonably priced DVI-D to displayport active converter. So here is the final plan :

- plugging the DCD in the V12 board.

- create a 2@1280x1080_70 vfo file.

- plugging one of the DCD DVI output in the DVI to displayport converter and then to monitor displayport input.

- plugging the other DCD DVI output in the monitor DVI input.

- activate the "multiview" on the monitor.

- I then should enjoy a nice 2560*1080 desktop.

I have no experience at all with the DCD. Bought one last year and haven't connected it yet. Does the above sound like a feasible plan ? What could go wrong ? Could there be any compatibility problem between the DCD DVI output and a recent monitor DVI input ? Could the DVI to displayport converter cause any problem ? Any exprience DCD user advice welcome... Thanks in advance. :)

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Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:41 pm 
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Jack Luminous wrote:
I was looking at the Philips Brilliance 298P4QJEB/00, 21/9 ratio with "multiview" functionality (basically two different video sources on screen side-by-side).

I have no experience at all with the DCD. Bought one last year and haven't connected it yet. Does the above sound like a feasible plan ?

I can't comment on the DVI-to whatever conversion but I have a monitor that takes multiple inputs to create one display. Using a DCD with it, it works fine.

It does do a little dance about 50% of the time on startup - it comes up with two copies of the desktop running side-by-side rather than one large one. Just fiddle around with the two cursors (sometimes hard to know which one goes with which screen, if one doesn't do anything then use the other one), open Display Properties (xsetmon), and re-choose the 2@ resolution you want. Once in a while have to do that a couple times, if it's being stubborn. Sometimes it will come right up perfectly. I have messed with this some but it seems to be just The Way It Is.

Otherwise, it's good. With a DCD you will get a parting line down the middle of the screen if you drag a window through it. That's because the dcd refreshes one half at a time, too fast to be seen but if you move something through it, you can see an edge. It's not really annoying.

I believe Mia is also running one of these, maybe he can chime in here about whether he has the same situation.

Not sure you can run 1280 x 1080 @ 70 though. You don't need 70, whatever is the lowest refresh the panel will sync will be fine. These are not crt's. Unless you are playing games, you cannot tell if the monitor is running at even 31 herz refresh. Even with movies.

That's a pretty neat monitor. They should be curved, then you could watch Cinerama Holiday (if you don't mind an hour's worth of sailing ships making six knots. The tobaggan run was fun though.)

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What could go wrong ?

This is computing. Everything :P

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Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:17 pm 
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hamei wrote:
Quote:
What could go wrong ?

This is computing. Everything :P


:D Awesome! That's exactly the mantra I used yesterday to prepare today's work plan.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:29 am 
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I like the concept :) But not the 21:9 aspect ratio (and lack of vertical resolution) of this screen which is nice for films but not much else IMHO.

But there's this one: http://www.p4c.philips.com/cgi-bin/cpin ... 4QPJKEB/00 : a 27" 2560 x 1440 display, 16;9 aspect ratio. With MultiView capability. Oh, and since these monitors have dual HDMI ports, why not get a pair of DVI-HDMI cables and forget about a DP converter?

I wonder a bit how this works in the real world. Like, for example, will the monitor 'remember' to power up in PbP (picture-beside-picure?) mode or do you have to go into the on screen menus every time? That would tire quickly.

Also, there's no analog input *at all*. You could add a (pair of) VGA-to-DVI-D converters but I wonder how those things deal with oddball resolutions like 1280x1440.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:04 am 
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hamei wrote:
Otherwise, it's good. With a DCD you will get a parting line down the middle of the screen if you drag a window through it. That's because the dcd refreshes one half at a time, too fast to be seen but if you move something through it, you can see an edge. It's not really annoying.

I believe Mia is also running one of these, maybe he can chime in here about whether he has the same situation.

Not sure you can run 1280 x 1080 @ 70 though. You don't need 70, whatever is the lowest refresh the panel will sync will be fine. These are not crt's. Unless you are playing games, you cannot tell if the monitor is running at even 31 herz refresh. Even with movies.


That's exactly what kinda worries me. From the monitor's manual :

Vertical refresh rate : 56 Hz - 75 Hz
Horizontal freq : 30 kHz - 90 kHz

It's not clear to me what is the exact vertical refresh rate outputted by the DCD with the 2@ res at each DVI output. It is the stated rate divided by two ? It is outputting twice the same image on one output at the normal rate ? Is it alternating both image at the nominal rate ? Etc... I fear the monitor won't be able to sync properly if the DCD refresh rate is too low.

hamei wrote:
That's a pretty neat monitor. They should be curved, then you could watch Cinerama Holiday (if you don't mind an hour's worth of sailing ships making six knots. The tobaggan run was fun though.)

Quote:
What could go wrong ?

This is computing. Everything :P


Haha I know that well, I'm dealing with it everyday at my job. Hence my post for gathering some more infos from experienced SGI users.

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Last edited by Jack Luminous on Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:12 am 
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jan-jaap wrote:
I like the concept :) But not the 21:9 aspect ratio (and lack of vertical resolution) of this screen which is nice for films but not much else IMHO.

But there's this one: http://www.p4c.philips.com/cgi-bin/cpin ... 4QPJKEB/00 : a 27" 2560 x 1440 display, 16;9 aspect ratio. With MultiView capability. Oh, and since these monitors have dual HDMI ports, why not get a pair of DVI-HDMI cables and forget about a DP converter?


The aspect ratio is clearly a matter of taste. I do no plan to write pages of code for hours on the machine. Just having fun with it. I'd be happy to use the hdmi along the DVI port, it would makes things simpler but the manual states clearly that multiview is supported only with the displayport along any other input at the same time. A pair without the displayport won't work.

jan-jaap wrote:
I wonder a bit how this works in the real world. Like, for example, will the monitor 'remember' to power up in PbP (picture-beside-picure?) mode or do you have to go into the on screen menus every time? That would tire quickly.


I plan to leave the machine on continuously once properly configured. I hope the monitor will at least remember the settings when going out of sleep.

jan-jaap wrote:
Also, there's no analog input *at all*. You could add a (pair of) VGA-to-DVI-D converters but I wonder how those things deal with oddball resolutions like 1280x1440.


I plan to use the DCD DVI outputs, so no need for VGA to DVI converters.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:04 am 
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Jack Luminous wrote:
That's exactly what kinda worries me. From the monitor's manual :

Vertical refresh rate : 56 Hz - 75 Hz
Horizontal freq : 30 kHz - 90 kHz

It's not clear to me what is the exact vertical refresh rate outputted by the DCD with the 2@ res at each DVI output. It is the stated rate divided by two ? It is outputting twice the same image on one output at the normal rate ? Is it alternating both image at the nominal rate ? Etc...

res here is 2@1920x2400_31. The monitor reports 3840 x 2400 @ 31 Hz. So I am guessing that the VPro feeds the DCD at 62 hz, then the DCD splits it into two channels of half-speed. But the resolution and refresh you get is what you compile in, not half that. What limits what you can display is the limits of DVI, not the VPro - DCD circuitry.

But that's just a guess from observing the way the screen displays.

You're going to have to get recondas in on this - he's the Master of 2@ Video Resolutions.
Quote:
I fear the monitor won't be able to sync properly if the DCD refresh rate is too low.

Limbo down :D

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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:22 am 
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hamei wrote:
res here is 2@1920x2400_31. The monitor reports 3840 x 2400 @ 31 Hz. So I am guessing that the VPro feeds the DCD at 62 hz, then the DCD splits it into two channels of half-speed. But the resolution and refresh you get is what you compile in, not half that. What limits what you can display is the limits of DVI, not the VPro - DCD circuitry.

But that's just a guess from observing the way the screen displays.

You're going to have to get recondas in on this - he's the Master of 2@ Video Resolutions.
Quote:
I fear the monitor won't be able to sync properly if the DCD refresh rate is too low.

Limbo down :D


Thanks for the infos. There's a screenshot in the SGI DCD manual with various 2@ res that seem to indicate that a 2@1280x1080_60 or _70 would be possible to create. I don't know what the "_ds" means though.

Image

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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:51 am 
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Jack Luminous wrote:
[There's a screenshot in the SGI DCD manual

Sorry. Must be my week for being stupid. Shoulda done this in the first place :
Attachment:
resolutions.jpg
resolutions.jpg [ 51.33 KiB | Viewed 439 times ]

Looks very likely. Might need to check in with Mr Two-At to get the 1080 vertical number though. And first thing he'll ask for is an EDID, you may as well start digging now :D

Speaking of weird monitors, take a loook at this one, j-j. Would be a hoot to get one running in Irix !
http://www.eizo.com/global/products/dur ... index.html

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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:22 pm 
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Nice monitor, but unless use with your Octane will be a secondary function I wouldn't recommend purchasing it without a liberal return policy.

Yours is the first mention of using connecting a monitor with a Display Port that I can recall. You'll have to decide if you want to assume the risk of being first.

Potential pitfalls go beyond the Display Port conversion. The less risky method is to use a monitor someone else has reported working. There have been several mentions here of IRIX display formats that wouldn't work with one particular monitor when the same IRIX display format had previously worked other brands/models with the same native resolution and similar display requirements. I think it's possible some of the monitors (that couldn't be made to work correctly with IRIX) use a version of DDC / EDID released after IRIX became dormant.

Last but not least, display formats for DCD-equipped VPro graphics adapters are notoriously hard to compile.

I don't how (or even if) the above will apply to the Philips Brilliance 298P4QJEB/00, but it's not totally gloom-n-doom. If everything mentioned above works in your favor, a 2@1280x1080 display is within the capabilities of a DCD-equipped V12:
  • A generic 1280x1080@60Hz mode line has a pixel clock of roughly 115MHz, comfortably with in the V12's 165MHz single-link DVI ceiling (2@ formats used by the VPro DCD typically increase the pixel clock by only a few megahertz);
  • Your intended 2@1280x1080_60 format meets the compiler requirement that the horizontal aspect be a multiple of 64.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:34 am 
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recondas wrote:
Nice monitor, but unless use with your Octane will be a secondary function I wouldn't recommend purchasing it without a liberal return policy.

Yours is the first mention of using connecting a monitor with a Display Port that I can recall. You'll have to decide if you want to assume the risk of being first.


Canavan reported previously that he used such adapter with success, connecting a Fuel with a Eizo S2243.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16727386&p=7357661&hilit=displayport+ligawo#p7357661

recondas wrote:
Potential pitfalls go beyond the Display Port conversion. The less risky method is to use a monitor someone else has reported working. There have been several mentions here of IRIX display formats that wouldn't work with one particular monitor when the same IRIX display format had previously worked other brands/models with the same native resolution and similar display requirements. I think it's possible some of the monitors (that couldn't be made to work correctly with IRIX) use a version of DDC / EDID released after IRIX became dormant.


Yes, that's the risky part.

recondas wrote:
Last but not least, display formats for DCD-equipped VPro graphics adapters are notoriously hard to compile.


I kinda counted on your help about that, just in case I can't manage it myself.... :D

recondas wrote:
I don't how (or even if) the above will apply to the Philips Brilliance 298P4QJEB/00, but it's not totally gloom-n-doom. If everything mentioned above works in your favor, a 2@1280x1080 display is within the capabilities of a DCD-equipped V12:
  • A generic 1280x1080@60Hz mode line has a pixel clock of roughly 115MHz, comfortably with in the V12's 165MHz single-link DVI ceiling (2@ formats used by the VPro DCD typically increase the pixel clock by only a few megahertz);
  • Your intended 2@1280x1080_60 format meets the compiler requirement that the horizontal aspect be a multiple of 64.


That's good to know... Thanks a lot for the infos.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:42 am 
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Jack Luminous wrote:
Canavan reported previously that he used such adapter with success, connecting a Fuel with a Eizo S2243.
Indeed he did (I'll plead short-term memory loss :D) - that's one potential pitfall out of the way.

Jack Luminous wrote:
I kinda counted on your help about that, just in case I can't manage it myself.... :D
Be happy to offer help if needed, just didn't want give the impression that getting the monitor to work was a foregone conclusion.

Jack Luminous wrote:
That's good to know... Thanks a lot for the infos.
I've mentioned the x64 rule before, but not so long ago a member requesting I assist with creating a 2@ format. He wanted to connect a second 1440x900 panel he'd purchased for use with his equally new DCD. Understandably he was less than happy with the outcome......

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Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:14 am 
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recondas wrote:

Does this apply to vertical resolution as well, or just ActivePixelsPerLine ?

In that case the 2560 x 1440 display display I mentioned is out the window...

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Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:36 am 
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jan-jaap wrote:
Does this apply to vertical resolution as well, or just ActivePixelsPerLine ? In that case the 2560 x 1440 display display I mentioned is out the window...
Thankfully just the ActivePixelsPerLine / horizontal display resolution. Otherwise a lot of common resolutions like 2@1600x1200, 2@1920x1080 and less common stuff like Jack's goal of 2@1280x1080 wouldn't be possible.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:44 am 
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This might shed a little light on the dcd thing ...
Attachment:
snap.png
snap.png [ 3.62 KiB | Viewed 308 times ]

You would think you would see that ? But unless you place a window on the dividing line and scroll it, not noticeable.

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