Octane Fan Replacement Discussion (Includes OEM Fans Specs)

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zackwatt
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Octane Fan Replacement Discussion (Includes OEM Fans Specs)

Unread postby zackwatt » Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:56 pm

I was cruising the internet looking at PC parts, more specifically quiet fans, when I thought, "Hey, I bet I could get a quiet fan for my Octanes". Before I could look for fans on the net, I had to know what I was looking for, what size and what air flow (CFM) they produced.

I was now on a mission. "Operation Teardown" began. I knew all the fans would have labels on them, and I figured I could find the specs on the web.

I first pulled apart the PSU and located the fan label and grabbed the info for it:

The PSU Fan: Panaflo FBA12G12U

Image

Part Number............................ FBA12G12U, FBA12G12U-1C
Manufacturer.......................... Panasonic / Matsushita Electric, Japan
Size, In................................. 4.73" X 4.73" X 1.497"
Size, mm............................... 120mm x 120mm x 38mm
Voltage................................. 12 volts DC
Current................................. 0.65A
Watts................................... 7.80
RPM ..................................... 2950
Flow CFM (Max)...................... 119.0
Noise (dBA)............................ 48.5
Bearing Type........................... Panaflo "Hydro-Wave" lubricated sleeve
Material-Venturi....................... UL94V-0 Plastic
Material-Propeller..................... UL94V-0 Plastic
Power Leads............................ 2- 12",22AWG Leads
Termination ............................ BARE LEADS
Life Expectancy-MTBF............... 50,000 Hours


Next, I went for the HDD Fan and the CPU Fan. The CPU fan required complete disassembly of my Octane. :D

IMG_6149.jpg


I located the labels on the remaining fans and looked up the information.

The HDD Fan: Panaflo FBA09A12V

Image

Part Number....................... FBA09A12V-1C
Manufacturer..................... Panasonic / Matsushita Electric, Japan
Size, In............................. 3.625" X 3.625" X 1.0"
Size, mm........................... 92mm x 92mm x 25mm
Operating Voltage............... 7 to 13.8 volts DC
Current............................. 0.225A
Watts (Max)...................... 2.70
RPM ................................ 2100 min - 2850 max
Flow CFM ......................... 42.7 min - 56.8 max
Noise (dBA)........................ 35
Bearing Type...................... Panaflo Hydro-Wave
Material-Venturi.................. UL94V-0 Plastic
Material-Propeller................ UL94V-0 Plastic
Power Leads....................... 3- 22AWG
Termination ....................... 8" Bare Leads
Life Expectancy-MTBF.......... 60,000 Hours


The CPU Fan: Shicoh 0610-12


Image

Part Number.................................. 0610-12
Other Number ............................... F6010AP-12LCW
Manufacturer ............................... Shicoh Engineering, Japan
Size, Inches ................................. 2.35" X 2.35" X .425"
Size, mm ..................................... 60mm x 60mm x 10.3mm
Voltage ....................................... 12 volts DC
Current ....................................... 0.1A (230mA)
Watts ......................................... 1.2
RPM ............................................ 3300
Flow CFM/(m3/min) (Max)................ 12.7 / 0.33(m3/min)
Static Pressure (Max)..................... 16.7
Noise (dBA) .................................. 30.0
Bearing Type ................................ Ball Bearings
Material-Venturi ............................ UL94V-0 Plastic
Material-Propeller........................... UL94V-0 Plastic
Power Leads ................................ 2- 22AWG
Termination ................................. 2- 4" bare wire leads.
Life Expectancy-MTBF.................... 50,000 Hours


After some web searching I found out if I could get any quieter fans at the same or similar CFM. For the PSU fan, the answer is no, for the size, RPM and air flow it actually does pretty well at 48.5dBA. The closest I found was 90CFM at 19dBA from Cooler Master. For the HDD fan, the answer is yes, there's one by SilenX that is only 14dBa and it creates 42 CFM. For the CPU fan, the answer is also yes. You can actually knock 5-10dBA off depending on the fan you get. But that would probably not be very noticeable and you have to find a 2-pin one. All the fans use 2-pin connectors. My war against sound does not end here though. During disassembly, I noticed something about the plastic cover the HHD fan is mounted on...

IMG_6151.jpg


It is a big square plastic box with a fan mounted on it. I figured that most of the noise was coming from here. When I put everything back together and powered on the Octane, I was correct. A ton of sound was coming from this mount and its fan. The big square plastic box portion seemed to be amplifying the sound of the fan. I decided that the large flat sides of the box would be a perfect candidate for some stick-on acoustic damping. I don't have any, so I will have to report back when I get some, but this will be a simple solution. When I get some, I won't have to tear everything down completely again. Also, dirty fans are very noisy. I cleaned mine and it really helped.

There are also many other areas inside the case the would benefit from some stick-on acoustic damping. It just depends on how crazy you want to go.
Last edited by zackwatt on Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:50 am, edited 7 times in total.
:Octane2: :Octane2: :Octane: :Indigo2IMP: :Indigo2: :O2: :O2+:

Octane2 2x600 V12 8GB
- Octane2 600 V12 2GB - Octane 2x400 V10 2GB
Indigo² 195 Max Impact 386MB - Indigo² 250 Extreme 386MB
O2 350 CRM 256MB - O2+ 400 CRM 512MB

"I'm totally unappreciated in my time. You can run this whole park from this room, with minimal staff, for up to three days. You think that kind of automation is easy? Or cheap? You know anybody who can network eight Connection Machines and de-bug two million lines of code for what I bid this job? Because if you can, I'd love to see him try."

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Dr. Dave
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Re: This Evening's Little Project...

Unread postby Dr. Dave » Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:31 pm

This worked well for me in a loaded MXE Octane with a Lucent PSU:

Dr. Dave wrote:We have a winner!

The Panaflo FBA12G12M1BX seems to work well - I think it's blowing a bit more air than the regular fan on slow, but nowhere close to the vortex of doom that is a regular fan on full. TRAM temps seem up about 4-5 degrees on the MXI (basically nothing to worry about), and if you don't have anything particularly hot in the bottom right slot (here it's a shoehorn with a Gigabit etherenet card) then this tames the noise to the point of being noticeable, but not deafening. Still blows a lotta heat too. This is in a Lucent PSU.

For comparison:

Panaflo FBA12G12M1BX - 2100 RPM, 86.5 CFM, 35.5 dBa
Original PSU fan - 2750 RPM, 114 CFM, 45.2 dBa


Anything slower caused too much positive delta-T on the TRAM's on the MXE. I'd imagine a Vpro Octane 2 would probably have much the same problem.

Since then I've run it quite a bit (though not lately) and have not seen any problems whatsoever. The Cherokee's run quieter, but in this case I wanted an 'Octane 1' configuration (with MXE/PVO), as I already have 3 newer systems.

As for acoustic dampening, I'd be tempted to try those silicon rubber fan frames you see at the modz store, though they're probably not compatible with the clip mounts due to thickness. I tried one in the PSU and it caused the fan hub to rub on the PSU circuit board, so out it came. The idea is that by acoustically isolating the fan from the box, the vibration noise won't transfer, rather than trying to dampen the vibrations in the box plastic itself. Some PC fans come with rubber 'pull mounts' (rubber 'bolts' that pull through the fan mount holes, I believe Zalman fans come to mind) that might be useful if you drilled the clips out of the fan box and used these rubber pins to mount the fan instead.
Last edited by Dr. Dave on Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Once you step up to the big iron, you learn all about physics, electrical standards, and first aid - usually all in the same day

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zackwatt
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Re: This Evening's Little Project...

Unread postby zackwatt » Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:38 pm

All my PSUs are 747W Cherokees. They seem to be pretty quiet most of the time.
:Octane2: :Octane2: :Octane: :Indigo2IMP: :Indigo2: :O2: :O2+:

Octane2 2x600 V12 8GB
- Octane2 600 V12 2GB - Octane 2x400 V10 2GB
Indigo² 195 Max Impact 386MB - Indigo² 250 Extreme 386MB
O2 350 CRM 256MB - O2+ 400 CRM 512MB

"I'm totally unappreciated in my time. You can run this whole park from this room, with minimal staff, for up to three days. You think that kind of automation is easy? Or cheap? You know anybody who can network eight Connection Machines and de-bug two million lines of code for what I bid this job? Because if you can, I'd love to see him try."

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Re: This Evening's Little Project...

Unread postby Dr. Dave » Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:47 pm

Load up your XIO's (the infamous 'bottom right' is usually the culprit), and they still make tons of noise and benefit from the fan swap. As a bonus, if you're finding yourself in a situation where fastfan hasn't yet kicked in, it will be quieter than stock with the peace of mind that there is still adequate airflow if fastfan is required.

I'd agree that on a lightly loaded Octane, the top fan is the loudest. Be curious to see how it turns out. Do you have a sound level meter to generate some numbers?
:O3000: <> :O3000: :O2000: :Tezro: :Fuel: x2+ :Octane2: :Octane: x3 :1600SW: x2 :O2: x2+ :Indigo2IMP: :Indigo2: x2 :Indigo: x3 :Indy: x2+

Once you step up to the big iron, you learn all about physics, electrical standards, and first aid - usually all in the same day

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zackwatt
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Re: This Evening's Little Project...

Unread postby zackwatt » Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:50 pm

Dr. Dave wrote:Load up your XIO's (the infamous 'bottom right' is usually the culprit), and they still make tons of noise and benefit from the fan swap. As a bonus, if you're finding yourself in a situation where fastfan hasn't yet kicked in, it will be quieter than stock with the peace of mind that there is still adequate airflow if fastfan is required.

I'd agree that on a lightly loaded Octane, the top fan is the loudest. Be curious to see how it turns out. Do you have a sound level meter to generate some numbers?


I'm not techy enough to have a sound meter laying around. Sorry man.

It would be a good idea though.
:Octane2: :Octane2: :Octane: :Indigo2IMP: :Indigo2: :O2: :O2+:

Octane2 2x600 V12 8GB
- Octane2 600 V12 2GB - Octane 2x400 V10 2GB
Indigo² 195 Max Impact 386MB - Indigo² 250 Extreme 386MB
O2 350 CRM 256MB - O2+ 400 CRM 512MB

"I'm totally unappreciated in my time. You can run this whole park from this room, with minimal staff, for up to three days. You think that kind of automation is easy? Or cheap? You know anybody who can network eight Connection Machines and de-bug two million lines of code for what I bid this job? Because if you can, I'd love to see him try."

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zackwatt
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Re: This Evening's Little Project...

Unread postby zackwatt » Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:55 pm

Dr. Dave wrote:As for acoustic dampening, I'd be tempted to try those silicon rubber fan frames you see at the modz store, though they're probably not compatible with the clip mounts due to thickness. I tried one in the PSU and it caused the fan hub to rub on the PSU circuit board, so out it came. The idea is that by acoustically isolating the fan from the box, the vibration noise won't transfer, rather than trying to dampen the vibrations in the box plastic itself. Some PC fans come with rubber 'pull mounts' (rubber 'bolts' that pull through the fan mount holes, I believe Zalman fans come to mind) that might be useful if you drilled the clips out of the fan box and used these rubber pins to mount the fan instead.


I think the sound from the fan vibrating is minimal, I think that it is mostly the box is amplifying the sound. Just like when you hum down a pipe. I have acoustic damping in my PC. It really makes a difference when there is nothing to echo/reverb off of.
:Octane2: :Octane2: :Octane: :Indigo2IMP: :Indigo2: :O2: :O2+:

Octane2 2x600 V12 8GB
- Octane2 600 V12 2GB - Octane 2x400 V10 2GB
Indigo² 195 Max Impact 386MB - Indigo² 250 Extreme 386MB
O2 350 CRM 256MB - O2+ 400 CRM 512MB

"I'm totally unappreciated in my time. You can run this whole park from this room, with minimal staff, for up to three days. You think that kind of automation is easy? Or cheap? You know anybody who can network eight Connection Machines and de-bug two million lines of code for what I bid this job? Because if you can, I'd love to see him try."

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Re: This Evening's Little Project...

Unread postby Megatron-UK » Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:14 am

Interesting! I'm just looking at the fans in my Indigo 2 right now and the Octane hdd and cpu fans are identical to the psu/gio and cpu fans in the I2!

I found this fan http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FG-011-SY&groupid=701&catid=57&subcat=820, which matches the 56CFM maximum of the Panaflo but is a couple of dBa quieter.

Have you found anything specific for the cpu fan yet? I've found it hard to get specs for reasonable 60x60x10mm fans - though there are lots of 60x60x25mm models out there. Also, you can use a 3 pin fan but just don't connect the yellow wire - it's just used to read the fan speed that's all.
:Indigo2IMP: [ R10k-195/MaxImpact +TRAMs/896Mb/73Gb-15krpm/G160/6.5.22 ]
:Octane2: [ Dual R12k-400/V8/2Gb/73Gb-15krpm/6.5.29 ]

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zackwatt
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Re: This Evening's Little Project...

Unread postby zackwatt » Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:47 am

That is good to know about ignoring the yellow wire in the 3-pin connector.

I found this for the CPU fan: Cooljag Everflow 60mm x 10mm Fan (126010DL)

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/6157/ ... g36c15s672

It moves the exact same air flow and is only 22.9dBA
:Octane2: :Octane2: :Octane: :Indigo2IMP: :Indigo2: :O2: :O2+:

Octane2 2x600 V12 8GB
- Octane2 600 V12 2GB - Octane 2x400 V10 2GB
Indigo² 195 Max Impact 386MB - Indigo² 250 Extreme 386MB
O2 350 CRM 256MB - O2+ 400 CRM 512MB

"I'm totally unappreciated in my time. You can run this whole park from this room, with minimal staff, for up to three days. You think that kind of automation is easy? Or cheap? You know anybody who can network eight Connection Machines and de-bug two million lines of code for what I bid this job? Because if you can, I'd love to see him try."

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zackwatt
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Re: This Evening's Little Project...

Unread postby zackwatt » Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:36 am

Here is a GREAT 92mm fan:

http://www.heatsinkfactory.com/silenx-i ... 16548.html

42CFM at 14dBA!!!!

Also, A good 120mm fan:

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/9300/ ... =g36c15s60

90CFM at 19dBA!
Last edited by zackwatt on Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
:Octane2: :Octane2: :Octane: :Indigo2IMP: :Indigo2: :O2: :O2+:

Octane2 2x600 V12 8GB
- Octane2 600 V12 2GB - Octane 2x400 V10 2GB
Indigo² 195 Max Impact 386MB - Indigo² 250 Extreme 386MB
O2 350 CRM 256MB - O2+ 400 CRM 512MB

"I'm totally unappreciated in my time. You can run this whole park from this room, with minimal staff, for up to three days. You think that kind of automation is easy? Or cheap? You know anybody who can network eight Connection Machines and de-bug two million lines of code for what I bid this job? Because if you can, I'd love to see him try."

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Dr. Dave
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Re: This Evening's Little Project...

Unread postby Dr. Dave » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:04 am

Just be careful, sometimes those SilentX fans don't deal well with back pressure.
:O3000: <> :O3000: :O2000: :Tezro: :Fuel: x2+ :Octane2: :Octane: x3 :1600SW: x2 :O2: x2+ :Indigo2IMP: :Indigo2: x2 :Indigo: x3 :Indy: x2+

Once you step up to the big iron, you learn all about physics, electrical standards, and first aid - usually all in the same day

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zackwatt
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Re: This Evening's Little Project...

Unread postby zackwatt » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:18 am

Dr. Dave wrote:Just be careful, sometimes those SilentX fans don't deal well with back pressure.


Can you please elaborate on that?
:Octane2: :Octane2: :Octane: :Indigo2IMP: :Indigo2: :O2: :O2+:

Octane2 2x600 V12 8GB
- Octane2 600 V12 2GB - Octane 2x400 V10 2GB
Indigo² 195 Max Impact 386MB - Indigo² 250 Extreme 386MB
O2 350 CRM 256MB - O2+ 400 CRM 512MB

"I'm totally unappreciated in my time. You can run this whole park from this room, with minimal staff, for up to three days. You think that kind of automation is easy? Or cheap? You know anybody who can network eight Connection Machines and de-bug two million lines of code for what I bid this job? Because if you can, I'd love to see him try."

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Dr. Dave
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Re: This Evening's Little Project...

Unread postby Dr. Dave » Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:59 pm

I'd have to find where I saw that reference. But this is interesting.

I have a 92mm SilenX in my main PC as a front fan, it's not noticeably quieter than a lot of other fans, but I was disappointed at the airflow. I would also say that the small hub motor would likely factor into the backpressure issue as it reduces available torque at the hub to spin the rotor. I've been much more satisfied with the Zalman, Scythe, or Arctic Cooling fans, running examples of each, and consider the Panaflo's to be of better quality than any of them, but likely not in the same acoustic league.
:O3000: <> :O3000: :O2000: :Tezro: :Fuel: x2+ :Octane2: :Octane: x3 :1600SW: x2 :O2: x2+ :Indigo2IMP: :Indigo2: x2 :Indigo: x3 :Indy: x2+

Once you step up to the big iron, you learn all about physics, electrical standards, and first aid - usually all in the same day

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zackwatt
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Re: This Evening's Little Project...

Unread postby zackwatt » Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:53 pm

That is interesting.

What would you consider the best, in terms of acoustics/air flow, to use?

If I cannot get a substantially quieter fan, I will just stick to my acoustic damping idea.
:Octane2: :Octane2: :Octane: :Indigo2IMP: :Indigo2: :O2: :O2+:

Octane2 2x600 V12 8GB
- Octane2 600 V12 2GB - Octane 2x400 V10 2GB
Indigo² 195 Max Impact 386MB - Indigo² 250 Extreme 386MB
O2 350 CRM 256MB - O2+ 400 CRM 512MB

"I'm totally unappreciated in my time. You can run this whole park from this room, with minimal staff, for up to three days. You think that kind of automation is easy? Or cheap? You know anybody who can network eight Connection Machines and de-bug two million lines of code for what I bid this job? Because if you can, I'd love to see him try."

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Re: This Evening's Little Project...

Unread postby guardian452 » Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:45 pm

where did you get that conductive antistatic carpet and sofa? That would come in handy, especially for wintertime.

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zackwatt
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Re: This Evening's Little Project...

Unread postby zackwatt » Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:52 pm

I knew someone would be along to comment about that. I really don't have too many options on wear tear something down. It's not like I am rubbing everything all over me and the carpet.

What do you suggest I do next time?
:Octane2: :Octane2: :Octane: :Indigo2IMP: :Indigo2: :O2: :O2+:

Octane2 2x600 V12 8GB
- Octane2 600 V12 2GB - Octane 2x400 V10 2GB
Indigo² 195 Max Impact 386MB - Indigo² 250 Extreme 386MB
O2 350 CRM 256MB - O2+ 400 CRM 512MB

"I'm totally unappreciated in my time. You can run this whole park from this room, with minimal staff, for up to three days. You think that kind of automation is easy? Or cheap? You know anybody who can network eight Connection Machines and de-bug two million lines of code for what I bid this job? Because if you can, I'd love to see him try."


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