13w3 to vga adapter

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jan-jaap
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Re: 13w3 to vga adapter

Unread postby jan-jaap » Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:12 am

pip wrote:I run 1680x1050 on my MXE, so it should be possible on a ESI.

MXE has twice the framebuffer of ESI so this is not necessarily true.
For example, MXE will do 1600x1200 (and even 1920x1080 I believe), but I don't think ESI does any of those.
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Re: 13w3 to vga adapter

Unread postby tgc99 » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:56 am

recondas wrote:BTW, I though at one time his eBay home page identified him as the aforementioned "Deep Space Cables". While that info is not on the US eBay page, it is on the AU eBay page: http://members.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI ... 3_adapters <along with an adapter selection chart>.

If you look at his feedback page you might notice a few nekochan members among his customers - as well as some recent negative feedback.

Deepspace cables seems to have gone bellyup sometime in november 2008. I actually paid for an adapter that I never received and mails just bounced.
I'd be very wary of dealing with anyone associated with DeepSpaceCables and you should certainly not give them the benefit of the doubt based on previous encounters at this point.
What's worse is that the website remained up after they stopped responding, no doubt they where also taking peoples money in that time.

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Re: 13w3 to vga adapter

Unread postby dc_v01 » Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:45 am

recondas wrote:It has been reported that is possible to make nearly any 13w3 adapter work by breaking off all of the smaller pins

With the caveat that it needs to be a sync on green monitor, this is true, "reported" sounds a little weak, many have done it, all you need is the R,G,B lines (the three big coaxial pins) to be routed the same. I've never heard of any manufacturer switching the order of those - and even the R, B lines could be switched for an interesting color effect (only need the G to stay put for sync)! All you are doing is effectively switching to an old style 3 coaxial BNC connection to your monitor.

recondas wrote:but if you're going to buy one, get one that's designed to work with your platform. The 13w3 adapter by Deep Space Cables seems to get high marks on this forum.

Agree wholeheartedly, and then you don't need a sync on green monitor!

But unfortunately DeepSpace was the only seller I ever came across selling SGI specific adapters, except SGI itself. I haven't ordered one separately from SGI, always assumed they would be ridiculously expensive. But I guess I'll need to call now that DeepSpace seems under. Has anyone ever seen someone else selling SGI specific adapters? Ian?


No. That adapter, for sure according the published pinout, and likely the others you listed, do not route the H/V sync properly to work with Non-SOG monitors. You can only get it to work with SOG monitors by hacking the pins off as above. It's probably a SUN adapter.

I looked into making an adapter myself, but it's probably worth it just to buy from SGI. At least $30 just for the parts!!

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Re: 13w3 to vga adapter

Unread postby nuts » Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:05 am

I have bought this one http://www.mcpb.com/html/adp.13w3m.15f.1.html#
and it works!!
I get pictures on my LG L222WS 22" widescreen.

Now I have to found how to set 1680x1050. or 1440 and I will buy a smaller display

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Re: 13w3 to vga adapter

Unread postby recondas » Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:31 am

dc_v01 wrote:"reported" sounds a little weak, many have done it,
No arguments from me on that, - "reported" was only intended to imply I wasn't speaking from personal experience.
dc_v01 wrote:Has anyone ever seen someone else selling SGI specific adapters?..... I looked into making an adapter myself, but it's probably worth it just to buy from SGI. At least $30 just for the parts!!

As far as 13W3 > HD15 adapters sold by SGI, I purchased my Octane2 directly from SGI. It came with a monitor cable that has 13W3 on one end and HD15 on the other. I'm lucky enough to DVI ports on the Octane2, so I'm using the SGI cable <and another I bought on eBay> with an Onyx 300. I just looked at both of those 13W3>HD15 cables and neither seems to have a part number label or marking. Both are black <rather than the more typical SGI gray> and are about 10 feet in length. If you need more detail <to try to match one>, I can post a photo. While looking for more info I found a few listings for Octane2 cables <the last number was the price in 2006 USD>:

Code: Select all

018-0838-001    CABLE ASSY HD15M 10FT    $85
018-0881-002    CABLE ASSY VIDEO 13W3 OT HD15 10FT   $17
018-0881-003    CABLE ASSY VIDEO 13W3 OT HD15 10FT    $23
9470667         CABLE ASSY HD15 M 10FT    $26
At least three of those seem to be fairly reasonable prices <less than the $30 you mentioned anyway>. Seaching eBay with those part numbers turned up several hits - this one looks a lot like the ones I have. The seller mentions he has "more than 10" for roughly $25 USD plus shipping <he's in Europe>.

As far as buying directly from SGI, I haven't tried with anything smaller than an O2. There have been a few posts with some mentions of difficulty getting a response from SGI marketing people when small dollar / small volume purchases are involved. If so, perhaps one of the SGI resellers might consider stocking some of the SGI OEM cables. Now that Deep Space seems to be gone it might present a marketing opportunity. Even world-wide shipping shouldn't be too bad for something the size/weight of a cable.

*If* you do have any problems acquiring one of the OEM SGI cables <or are likely to have a number of systems with different 13W3 pin-outs, I ran across a 13W3>HD15 cable that has dip switches to "reportedly" <again, no personal experience ;)> allow the end user to switch between Sun, IBM and several variants of the SGI 13W3 connector. The price is only $23.87, in the ballpark with the SGI OEM units, and not a lot more than some places charge for a non-adjustable adapter <without the cable>. http://www.national-tech.com/specs/sun- ... -08106.htm
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Re: 13w3 to vga adapter

Unread postby cybercow » Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:27 am

If you have a SUN cable around, with little effort you can also build one by urself ...
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Re: 13w3 to vga adapter

Unread postby indyman007 » Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:54 am

Just buy one!

Or as a lot of others have make your own!
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Re: 13w3 to vga adapter

Unread postby dc_v01 » Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:14 am

nuts wrote:I have bought this one http://www.mcpb.com/html/adp.13w3m.15f.1.html#
and it works!!
I get pictures on my LG L222WS 22" widescreen.

Congrats! But I'm pretty sure that's a Sun adapter - your panel must be SOG for that setup to be working. Be very careful if you try to use a KVM, it will be picky...

recondas wrote:
dc_v01 wrote:"reported" sounds a little weak, many have done it,

No arguments from me on that, - "reported" was only intended to imply I wasn't speaking from personal experience.

Sorry if I jumped on you for that! Some have doubted whether this works over time, which I haven't understood - this is a "works by design" sort of thing, i.e. if you connect the proper pin to the proper pin, and no extraneous connections, it will work! Not like fumbling around with "does this driver for another card in the same chip series work with this card, or are there differences?" More like - if I connect the transformer taps of the 3-phase 440V to 208V transformer to a 440 line, I get 208 out! Haven't done it myself yet, but I just told someone else to! :)

recondas wrote: While looking for more info I found a few listings for Octane2 cables <the last number was the price in 2006 USD>:

Code: Select all

018-0838-001    CABLE ASSY HD15M 10FT    $85
018-0881-002    CABLE ASSY VIDEO 13W3 OT HD15 10FT   $17
018-0881-003    CABLE ASSY VIDEO 13W3 OT HD15 10FT    $23
9470667         CABLE ASSY HD15 M 10FT    $26

......
There have been a few posts with some mentions of difficulty getting a response from SGI marketing people when small dollar / small volume purchases are involved.


Yes, my friend has been looking for a "good" adapter - he called SGI, they told him they don't sell anything like that!!!!
recondas wrote: If so, perhaps one of the SGI resellers might consider stocking some of the SGI OEM cables. Now that Deep Space seems to be gone it might present a marketing opportunity.


So my friend found a couple of options - good 'ol Greg Douglas at Reputable http://www.reputable.com has them. Obviously where I should have told him to go first! Can't believe I forgot about him. He also found http://store.ultraspec.us/1395-sgi.html - it looks like they have them! As well as a lot of other nice stuff. That said, The price is about the same, I'd go to Greg for his longtime service to the SGI community.

Note that getting these adapters "right" - i.e. no-SOG requirement is really helpful for working with KVMs!

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Re: 13w3 to vga adapter

Unread postby orbital_binary » Fri May 14, 2010 12:55 pm

Hello all, this is my first post on Nekochan. I've got an Indy.

So I have an Indy and an IBM-brand 13w3 to VGA adaptor that I want to use on my Indy. It works on some monitors but not any of my monitors; so it needs to be hacked to work on any VGA monitor. From what I've read online, IBM's 13w3 standard is a different pin-out from SGI's 13w3. So, to change it I think I need to play musical chairs with pins # 5, 4, and 9.

Diagram attached. I'd appreciate it if anyone with experience has helpful suggestions before I cut my cable?

Thanks
proposed adaptor hack.jpg

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Re: 13w3 to vga adapter

Unread postby snowolf » Fri May 14, 2010 4:24 pm

orbital_binary wrote:I'd appreciate it if anyone with experience has helpful suggestions before I cut my cable?


Your adapter may be fine. The problem may simply be that the monitors that do not work, do not support Sync-on-Green (SoG). I would suggest you look up your monitor specs before cutting wires.
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Re: 13w3 to vga adapter

Unread postby dc_v01 » Sat May 15, 2010 8:48 pm

snowolf wrote:Your adapter may be fine. The problem may simply be that the monitors that do not work, do not support Sync-on-Green (SoG). I would suggest you look up your monitor specs before cutting wires.

I think that is his point - he doesn't believe his monitor supports sync-on-green, so he wants to make an adapter that supports non-Sync-on-Green monitors. That said, the monitor support should be checked - it's possible that some of the other signals are screwing things up, and simply cutting a few connections may fix things. But if you're going to cut things, I gues you might as well make a universal adapter in the process, although it's slightly more difficult.

The schematic looks ok, but I might bridge a few more pins to ground. I've noticed in the owner's manuals for some SGIs, only pin 8 is ground, while others list something like 8,9,10 as connected to ground. I wouldn't connect any of the monitor ID pins - only the h,v sync and ground pins.

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Re: 13w3 to vga adapter

Unread postby orbital_binary » Sun May 16, 2010 9:15 pm

dc_v01 you're exactly right: none of my monitors support sync on green; I've tested them. Sorry for being vauge about that, snowolf. Thanks for the tip about monitor ID and ground. Now let me ask at risk of sounding totally ignorant of what I'm doing: what are monitor ID pins *for* anyway? Do they tell the monitor what display parameters are available (resolution, frequency, etc)?

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Re: 13w3 to vga adapter

Unread postby dc_v01 » Mon May 17, 2010 7:30 pm

orbital_binary wrote:Now let me ask at risk of sounding totally ignorant of what I'm doing: what are monitor ID pins *for* anyway? Do they tell the monitor what display parameters are available (resolution, frequency, etc)?

The reverse - the monitor tells the computer what display parameters are available. You don't really need this as on SGIs you usually manually set the resolution anyway. There is also more than one standard for how to do it, so it's easy to mess up and the reason I think it's better to leave everything unnecessary out.

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Re: 13w3 to vga adapter

Unread postby Ryan Fox » Tue May 18, 2010 7:52 am

snowolf wrote:
orbital_binary wrote:I'd appreciate it if anyone with experience has helpful suggestions before I cut my cable?


Your adapter may be fine. The problem may simply be that the monitors that do not work, do not support Sync-on-Green (SoG). I would suggest you look up your monitor specs before cutting wires.



You'll cry if you go the 'snip-snip' route. Trust me, better to try and use another LCD, or CRT, or call a friend even :P
I can provide some model numbers of HP LCDs that work fine with a standard 13w3 to VGA cable

Regards


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Re: 13w3 to vga adapter

Unread postby dc_v01 » Tue May 18, 2010 7:31 pm

Ryan Fox wrote:You'll cry if you go the 'snip-snip' route.

It does take some skill. But if it's the right kind of adapter, I wouldn't be too discouraging. Which does bring up the point - I'd assumed this is a cable-type adapter - that is, it's a 13W3 to VGA cable, with some length of wire between the connectors, rather than a short, molded converter that doesn't include the cable. If it's the former, it's worthwhile to attempt. If it's the latter, then you're talking a very difficult modification that I wouldn't try unless you have a lot of experience.


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