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 Post subject: Re: V12 for Fuel
Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:30 am 
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bri3d wrote:
JacquesT wrote:
I believe the Fuel V12 won't work in the Octane XIO slots. But I could be wrong...but think not!


You're right. The Fuel V12 also doesn't just "work" in Origin 3xxx or 350 - even with an XIO brick. You need a special (and unbelievably rare) InfinitePerformace V-Brick to use it with these systems.

So basically the Fuel V12 is for Fuel, and not much else.


This statement isn't quite accurate - there is the Onyx 350 InfinitePerformance system that has a V12 card installed in it. This is a standard O350 chassis, nothing super special about it.

The V-bricks were really for O3000 series systems, originally intended as a cheap alternative to a G-brick they are in very very short supply now, meaning they cost far more than a G-brick.

Back to the V12 card though, I'm not sure if the Fuel V12 the original poster has will just fit the O350 chassis and turn it into a IP system - there is a O350 IP on Ebay.de at the moment and the board number for the V12 is 030-1909-003 which doesnt show up in any Fuel HINV's out in the wild, so i'm guessing it is unique.

The V12's in the V-brick I have are a different number again though.

I'm almost tempted to buy one now to see if it will go in a O350 Onyx I have, currently running an IR4 brick.... might be worth a go as I barely turn it on these days, G-bricks do like to suck up the power!

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 Post subject: Re: V12 for Fuel
Unread postPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:14 pm 
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Judging from the inside of my O350s, there's nowhere to put a Fuel-style V12 (or anything but PCI cards, for that matter)... I just don't see where it'd fit. Do you know if the InfinitePerformance O350s had a special backplane as well?

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 Post subject: Re: V12 for Fuel
Unread postPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:49 pm 
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The rear panel of the Onyx 350 Compute with IP graphics:
Attachment:
350GFX.rearpanel.features.gif
350GFX.rearpanel.features.gif [ 17.84 KiB | Viewed 1680 times ]


and without IP graphics:
Attachment:
350.server.rearpanel.items.gif
350.server.rearpanel.items.gif [ 13.38 KiB | Viewed 1669 times ]


The manual obliquely mentions <in a 'note'>:
Quote:
Note: Because of the placement of the IP graphics card within the module, the option of a redundant cooling fan or DigitalMediaPro DM3 option is not available with this unit.


While it looks like the graphics are placed where one of the cooling fans are normally located, that doesn't answer your question on how the graphics are connected once installed <or even if they can be>.

Here's a couple photos of an Onyx 350 InfinitePerformance system <in a half-rack>:
Attachment:
image2.jpg
image2.jpg [ 51.08 KiB | Viewed 1667 times ]
Attachment:
image4.jpg
image4.jpg [ 67.01 KiB | Viewed 1667 times ]

I'm still looking for an interior shot of the IP graphics module.

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 Post subject: Re: V12 for Fuel
Unread postPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:52 pm 
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OK - well that explains where it fits, but, like you said not how it connects... I think there must have been some kind of differing backplane option, unless someone with an O350 is seeing something I'm missing (I do tend to be blind sometimes ;) ).

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 Post subject: Re: V12 for Fuel
Unread postPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:15 pm 
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Toby did mention:
tjsgifan wrote:
there is the Onyx 350 InfinitePerformance system that has a V12 card installed in it. This is a standard O350 chassis, nothing super special about it.


If you'd like some details, here's the hinv and gfxinfo from the one Toby mentioned <that's where the photos came from as well>.:
Code:
hinv -mvvv
Location: /hw/module/001c01/nodePart:030 -1869-001;Name:IP53_2CPU;Serial:MYZ860;Revision:- C;Group:ff;Capability:ffffffff;Variety:ff;Laser:0000000052ca8e18;
Location:  /hw/module/001c01/IXbrick/xtalk/12Part:030-1909-003;Name:ODY128B1_2;Serial:MZD498;Revision:- C;Group:ff;Capability:ffffffff;Variety:ff;Laser:0000000052d471cc;
Location:  /hw/module/001c01/IXbrick/xtalk/15Part:030-1809-003;Name:2U_INT_53;Serial:MYV308;Revision:- B;Group:ff;Capability:ffffffff;Variety:ff;Laser:0000000052c79af8;
Location: /hw/module/001c01/IXbrick/xtalk/15/pci- x/0/1/ioc4Part:030-1771-005;Name:IO9;Serial:MRM261;Revision:- A;Group:ff;Capability:ffffffff;Variety:ff;Laser:00000000520dc779;
Location: /hw/module/001c02/nodePart:030-1869- 001;Name:IP53_2CPU;Serial:MYZ859;Revision:- C;Group:ff;Capability:ffffffff;Variety:ff;Laser:0000000052ca8dfd;
Location:  /hw/module/001c02/IXbrick/xtalk/12Part:030-1909-003;Name:ODY128B1_2;Serial:MVV635;Revision:- C;Group:ff;Capability:ffffffff;Variety:ff;Laser:00000000527ac791;
Location:  /hw/module/001c02/IXbrick/xtalk/15Part:030-1809-003;Name:2U_INT_53;Serial:MYM953;Revision:- B;Group:ff;Capability:ffffffff;Variety:ff;Laser:0000000052c151c7;
4 700 MHZ IP35 Processors
CPU: MIPS R16000  Processor Chip Revision: 2.1
FPU: MIPS R16010 Floating Point Chip Revision: 2.1
Location:  /hw/module/001c01/node/cpubus/0/a
CPU 0 at Module 001c01/Slot 0/Slice A: 700 Mhz MIPS R16000 Processor Chip (enabled)    Processor revision: 2.1. Scache: Size 4 MB Speed 350 Mhz Tap 0xc
Location:  /hw/module/001c01/node/cpubus/1/a
CPU 1 at Module 001c01/Slot 0/Slice C: 700 Mhz MIPS R16000 Processor Chip (enabled)    Processor revision: 2.1. Scache: Size 4 MB Speed 350 Mhz Tap 0xc
Location:  /hw/module/001c02/node/cpubus/0/a
CPU 2 at Module 001c02/Slot 0/Slice A: 700 Mhz MIPS R16000 Processor Chip (enabled)    Processor revision: 2.1. Scache: Size 4 MB Speed 350 Mhz Tap 0xc
Location:  /hw/module/001c02/node/cpubus/1/a
CPU 3 at Module 001c02/Slot 0/Slice C: 700 Mhz MIPS R16000 Processor Chip (enabled)    Processor revision: 2.1. Scache: Size 4 MB Speed 350 Mhz Tap 0xc
Main memory size: 2048 Mbytes
Instruction  cache size: 32 Kbytes
Data cache size: 32 Kbytes
Secondary unified instruction/data cache size: 4  Mbytes
Location: /hw/module/001c01/node/memory
Memory at Module 001c01/Slot 0: 1024 MB (enabled)
Bank 0  contains 512 MB (Standard) DIMMS (enabled)
Bank 1 contains 512 MB (Standard) DIMMS (enabled)
Location:  /hw/module/001c02/node/memory
Memory at Module 001c02/Slot 0: 1024 MB (enabled)
Bank 0 contains 512 MB  (Standard) DIMMS (enabled)
Bank 1 contains 512 MB (Standard) DIMMS (enabled)
Integral SCSI controller 2: Version  IDE (ATA/ATAPI) IOC4
Integral SCSI controller 0: Version QL12160, low voltage differential
Disk drive: unit 1 on  SCSI controller 0 (unit 1)
Integral SCSI controller 1: Version QL12160, low voltage differential
IOC3/IOC4 serial  port: tty3
IOC3/IOC4 serial port: tty4
IOC3/IOC4 serial port: tty5
IOC3/IOC4 serial port: tty6
Graphics  board: V12
Graphics board: V12
Integral Gigabit Ethernet: tg0, module 001c01, PCI bus 1 slot 4
PCI Adapter ID  (vendor 0x10a9, device 0x100a) PCI slot 1
PCI Adapter ID (vendor 0x1077, device 0x1216) PCI slot 3
PCI Adapter  ID (vendor 0x14e4, device 0x1645) PCI slot 4
PCI Adapter ID (vendor 0x1033, device 0x0035) PCI slot 2
PCI  Adapter ID (vendor 0x1033, device 0x0035) PCI slot 2
PCI Adapter ID (vendor 0x1033, device 0x00e0) PCI slot  2
IOC4 firmware revision 79
IOC3/IOC4 external interrupts: 1
Location: /hw/module/001c01/node/hub
HUB in  Module 001c01/Slot 0: Revision 2 Speed 200.00 Mhz (enabled)
Location: /hw/module/001c02/node/hub
HUB in Module  001c02/Slot 0: Revision 2 Speed 200.00 Mhz (enabled)
Location: /hw/module/001c01/node/prom
IP35prom in Module  001c01/Slot n0: Revision 6.210
Location: /hw/module/001c02/node/prom
IP35prom in Module 001c02/Slot n0: Revision  6.210
USB controller: type OHCI
USB Human Interface Device: device id 0 type mouse
USB controller: type  OHCI
USB Human Interface Device: device id 0 type keyboard

Code:
3# usr/gfx/gfxinfo
Graphics board 0 is  "ODYSSEY" graphics.
Managed (":0.0") 1280x1024
BUZZ version B.2
PB&J version 1
    128MB memory
Banks: 4, CAS latency: 3
Monitor 0 type: SGX 512
Channel  0:
Origin = (0,0)
Video Output: 1280 pixels, 1024 lines, 96.04Hz (1280x1024_96)
Graphics  board 1 is "ODYSSEY" graphics.
Managed (":0.1") 1280x1024
BUZZ version B.2
PB&J  version 1
128MB memory
Banks: 4, CAS latency: 3
Monitor 0 type: Unknown
    Channel 0:
Origin = (0,0)
Video Output: 1280 pixels, 1024 lines, 60.00Hz (1280x1024_60)

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Welcome to ARMLand - 0/0x0d00
running...(sherwood-root 0607201829)
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 Post subject: Re: V12 for Fuel
Unread postPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:36 pm 
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OK I'll open up my O350. It has a DM3 board installed in one of the units where the V12 is shown in the system above, but the 2nd module has a 2nd fan unit installed which should be removable. I'll take some photo's too as it would be interesting to see the backplane connection, I would have assumed there would be something different for the fan unit, but I've never looked that close.

:)

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 Post subject: Re: V12 for Fuel
Unread postPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:51 pm 
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hmm... hinv doesn't have any extra parts over my system listed beyond the ODYSSEY -

Maybe I didn't look closely enough last time I opened it up; I think I'll try that now.

The ability to put a V12 in my system without having to find anything *too* rare would be very cool.

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 Post subject: Re: V12 for Fuel
Unread postPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:08 pm 
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Huh? Here's the inside of my O350s - that's pretty clearly the connector for a Tezro/Fuel-style V12, but how would a V12 occupy the same space as the node box (that's the box to the bottom/left of the picture; I know that the blower at the top is removable)?

I *really* want to see the inside of Performance now - did they rearrange the inside of the system or what?

UPDATE: Just had another theory - my system is IP59 / R16K @ 1GHz; maybe 1Ghz O350 was never produced with graphics, and the node box is bigger.

If someone has pics of the inside of another O350 from this angle or especially one with V12, I'd appreciate it.


Attachments:
O350wtf.JPG
O350wtf.JPG [ 240.72 KiB | Viewed 1676 times ]

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Unread postPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:26 pm 
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Read down the whole thread to learn how this was done - basically if you can make an ODYSSEY board physically fit into an Origin350, it'll become an Onyx350 InfinitePerformance.

Hey - kind of hijacked this thread with questions about this earlier... found some more information though, so I thought I'd compile everything I've learned thus far here:

Moderator Edit: Merged the related posts from the topic mentioned above to consolidate the subject matter. <recondas>

The Origin 350 seems to have a slot for a V12 ODYSSEY graphics card, with connection that looks very similar to that used in Fuel and Tezro. SGI made a supported config, the Onyx 350 InfinitePerformance that had this slot filled with a V12. However, the V12 used in this slot had a part number which differed from the V12 in Fuel and Tezro.

My Origin 350s, dual 1Ghz R16ks, seem to be physically unable to take the ODYSSEY card - the (slower) Origin 350 shown here: http://www.nekochan.net/wiki/gallery2/v/SGI_ ... G.jpg.html , seems to have space around the slot to fit a card, whereas mine, shown in the attachment, seems to be lacking enough room to throw a V12 in.

So the remaining information I'd like is:
    Pictures of the inside of an Onyx 350 with a V12, just for reference purposes on how it slots in / fits...

    Anyone who's tried putting a Fuel or Tezro V12 in an Onyx or Origin 350 - does it work, or is that part number difference really significant?

    Any information on a 1Ghz Onyx 350 - I think maybe with the giant metal box around the node board removed, a V12 might fit even in my 1Ghz, but removing the metal box requires quite literally taking apart the entire system (it's obvious SGI *really* didn't want this done - there are screws that can only be removed by unseating the entire CPU + memory board assembly, removing it from the case, and taking it apart). Was there perhaps a model made with a different metal box?

I think as more Origin 350s show up on eBay/auctions/craigslist and in the hands of eager Nekochanners, we'll start to see a lot more interest in this subject - an Origin 350 with a V12 would be basically a very cheap Tezro...

I'm going to try buying a Fuel/Tezro V10 (as they're dirt-cheap) and somehow shoehorning it into my system (I think if I take the entire system apart, I can get that gigantic metal box off of the node board, and then if I can invent some alternate cooling I think I can make the board fit - it'll be a pretty complex project but nothing especially dangerous), and seeing if it works (the chances are lower, since V10 in O350 was never a supported SGI config, but we'll see...)


Attachments:
O350wtf.JPG
O350wtf.JPG [ 240.72 KiB | Viewed 1701 times ]

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Last edited by bri3d on Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 1:07 am 
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Very interesting to see where this is going.
Does the Origin350 have possibilities for keyboard and mouse?

I have been involved in turning an Origin2k into an Onyx2MXE in the beginning of 'experiments'
Back then I soldered a dual PS/2 connector to the IO6 board, put a SE gfx card into the O2k and connected
mouse and keyboard to the IO6. These gfx, mouse & keyboard did work perfectly to get into the system
but after loading IRIX the mouse & keyboard did not work anymore. In the end someone else on this forum solved it
by adding a PCI card with keyboard, mouse & ethernet card to it and then it worked.
Also replacing the IO6 by an IO6G did the job.

So maybe we can do this trick again and convert Origin350s into Onyx350s

Please keep us updated!


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Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 1:28 am 
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There were Tezro rack mount models which I figured they were basically the same as an Origin/Onyx 300/350. Perhaps UltmatePerformance was a different marketing name for the Tezro rack model.

I thought Tezro's were V12 only, I only know this because there was a discussion about a V10 Tezro on ebay which happened because someone had a V10 from a Fuel and a Tezro w/o graphics. The datasheet seems to support this.

Do you mean InfinitePerfromance? Not UltimatePerformance.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:12 am 
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loonvf wrote:
Does the Origin350 have possibilities for keyboard and mouse?
Yes, there are PS/2 K&M ports, or via an added USB card <then PROM/IRIX support would be similar to the O300 series>.
loonvf wrote:
I have been involved in turning an Origin2k into an Onyx2MXE
Indeed you were. :D I had a lot of fun with the O2k graphics mod - thanks for your contributions!

japes wrote:
Do you mean InfinitePerfromance? Not UltimatePerformance.
I'm pretty sure he did, UltimatePerformance is truly a horse of a different color - it's ATI based.
japes wrote:
There were Tezro rack mount models which I figured they were basically the same as an Origin/Onyx 300/350.
Interesting thought. There's a Onyx 350 IP hinv in the topic linked in bri3d's post. The part number for the IP V12 <030-1909-003> seems to be unique <although to be fair, I wasn't able to turn up an hinv or part number for a Tezro rack system>. The Tezro Visual Workstation Hardware User's Guide: Rackmount Configuration Guide does have an illustration of the rack-type V12:
Attachment:
Tezro_Rack2.gif
Tezro_Rack2.gif [ 39.11 KiB | Viewed 2500 times ]

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Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:39 am 
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recondas wrote:
japes wrote:
Do you mean InfinitePerfromance? Not UltimatePerformance.
I'm pretty sure he did, UltimatePerformance is truly a horse of a different color - it's ATI based.


I actually just totally butchered it, I think, the ATI thing is UltimateVision. D'oh.

Anyway, there seem to be a variety of "Fuel/Tezro" V12 part numbers listed as well, so maybe it's just different board revisions of some sort - does anyone know the difference between any of these in the first place?
Code:
Silicon Graphics   030-1726-003   Fuel/Tezro V12 Graphics Board; 128MB - 030-1726-003   
Silicon Graphics   030-1726-004   Fuel/Tezro V12 Graphics Board; 128MB - 030-1726-004


Like I said, I'm just going to buy a V10 in the coming weeks, put it in there, and see what happens - as long as it doesn't fry my O350, which I see no way it will (unless I goof up the cooling mods I'm going to need to make), I'm happy with whatever outcome I get... we'll never learn anything if nobody tries :) I know my chances are better with a V12, since it was the real supported config, but V10s are extremely cheap, since they came standard config in Fuel and Tezro so they're not an upgrade, wheras V12s are still several hundred USD.

loonvf wrote:
Does the Origin350 have possibilities for keyboard and mouse?

Via an NEC USB OHCI controller in a PCI slot, yep, just like Origin3xxx. Audio, too, via one of the IRIX-supported audio cards (M-Audio Revolution, Audigy2 ZS, etc.). If this graphics mod works I'll have a pretty nice workstation setup - basically a cheap Tezro :)

loonvf wrote:
In the end someone else on this forum solved it
by adding a PCI card with keyboard, mouse & ethernet card to it and then it worked.
Also replacing the IO6 by an IO6G did the job.

I'm actually running one of these setups right now (Origin2000, CADDuo in a PCI carrier, and SI graphics) - nice job pioneering it :)

loonvf wrote:
So maybe we can do this trick again and convert Origin350s into Onyx350s
Please keep us updated!


Will do, I think the differences are even less significant between Origin350 and Onyx350 - as a matter of fact, I think Onyx350 InfiniteReality was quite literally Origin350s with different text on the case, since you can hook an Origin350 up to a G-Brick and obtain an Onyx350 just fine this way.

It's interesting to see the Tezro though, I'm beginning to thing that maybe Tezro rackmount was just a rebranded Onyx350 IP... the cooling setup in that looks very different from mine though (ducts over the RAM and an open box over the CPUs to let air blow all the way over the graphics), so I think my suspicions about having to take apart my node box and redo the cooling are 100% correct (thankfully, it's not too hard, SGI just made it a pain by putting half of the mounting screws on the bottom of the board, so I have to remove the board from the case).

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Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 10:34 am 
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How about the noise issue ?

I mean I own a O200 and the 3 (huge) fans are so noisy that it's impossible to work next to it.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 12:01 pm 
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How similar are the Origin 300s to the 350s?

I may have access to some 300s.

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