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 Post subject: Number in a can.
Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:23 am 
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How does number in a can work...?
Its not transferable between different model systems ..?
Worthy of a wiki topic..?

OK, I have started a wiki topic anyway...
http://www.nekochan.net/wiki/Number_In_a_Can

R.

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 Post subject: Re: Number in a can.
Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:34 am 
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Numbers in a can? Is that like Alphabetti Soup?

I wasn't aware they made an integer-only version...

-DN

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 Post subject: Re: Number in a can.
Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:43 am 
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we used all sorts of stuff for SYSID. i hadn't heard of this one. at first i though it was a random number generator.

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 Post subject: Re: Number in a can.
Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:59 am 
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PymbleSoftware wrote:
Its not transferable between different model systems ..?
Looks like somebody <with balls-of-steel> is gonna have to be the first to try it <or at least the first on record>.......

PymbleSoftware wrote:
OK, I have started a wiki topic anyway...
Just looked at the wiki and it's mention of swapping the NIC from an Octane to a Fuel. I haven't looked at the system board of a Fuel close enough to be certain that there's not a number-in-a-can <too many air ducts and wires for a clear view>, but I was under the impression that if you wanted to change the sysid on any system with an L1 controller, all you need to do is plug in an L2 Controller preprogrammed with the desired local system serial number.

The local system serial number <in IP35 systems> is eight characters in length - a letter followed by seven digits. On most of the L1 equipped stuff I have <O300, O350 and Tezro - I'll have to fire up the Fuel to be certain>, the sysid is derived from the seven digits if the local system serial number - either as just the seven digit string or the seven digit string with a different leading alpha character. This process happens every time you link O3x0 modules with different local serial numbers <or connect a single compute module to an L2 controller with a different system serial number>. Its only fair to point out to anyone who might like to try this that there is a element of risk involved. The system type is at least in part derived from the leading alpha character <see this thread and/or this one for examples>, and I don't think I'd try a contrived serial number <just in case there's some sort of check digit in the serial number string>.

EDIT: While the serial number label on the rear of O300, O350 and Tezro are in the newer alpha + seven digit format mentioned above <e.g. M1234567 in the case of the O3x0s and P1234567 on the Tezro>, the Fuel does not use the same format for the local system serial number or sysid. The serial number label on the Fuel's rear bulkhead is in the same 080069xxxxxx <MAC address> format used by some of the earlier generation hardware, and the IRIX command sysid returns a portion of that string as the sysid.

When "serial all" is run on the Fuel L1 controller it includes the following reference to the MAC address in the 'EEPROM' section:
Code:
001a01-L1>serial all

Data                            Location      Value
------------------------------  ------------  --------
Local System Serial Number      EEPROM        08:00:69:10:xx:xx
Local Brick Serial Number       EEPROM        MMN520
Reference Brick Serial Number   NVRAM         MLS623

EEPROM      Product Name    Serial      Part Number           Rev  T/W   
----------  --------------  ----------  --------------------  ---  ------
NODE        IP34            MMN520      030_1707_003          H    00   
MAC         MAC ADDRESS     NA          NA                    NA   NA   
PIMM        IP34PIMM        MRS271      030_1730_001          G    00   
XIO         ASTODYV10       MVT940      030_1826_003          A    00   
...and the L1 command eeprom includes a mention of the writing the Fuel EEPROM data to the MAC EEPROM:
Code:
001a01-L1>hlp eeprom
eeprom
show brick eeprom data.

eeprom <exp> <exp> <exp>
show brick eeprom data at <eeprom> <offset> <length>.

eeprom Fuel write default
write standard Fuel EEPROM data to MAC EEPROM
Until advised otherwise by someone with actual experience with the Fuel L1 command "eeprom Fuel write default", I'd suggest treading cautiously.

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 Post subject: Re: Number in a can.
Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:05 pm 
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recondas wrote:
PymbleSoftware wrote:
Its not transferable between different model systems ..?
Looks like somebody <with balls-of-steel> is gonna have to be the first to try it <or at least the first on record>.......

PymbleSoftware wrote:
OK, I have started a wiki topic anyway...
Just looked at the wiki and it's mention of swapping the NIC from an Octane to a Fuel. I haven't looked at the system board of a Fuel close enough to be certain that there's not a number-in-a-can <too many air ducts and wires for a clear view>, but I was under the impression that if you wanted to change the sysid on any system with an L1 controller, all you need to do is plug in an L2 Controller preprogrammed with the desired local system serial number.


I used the forum "search" to try and find more information before starting the wiki topic and the bit about "not being able to transfer" was from a thread that I think it was neko referred back to about something or another related thread... The error message came from one of those threads too. The last line about the NIC behind the MSC came directly from one of Joerg's posts although I do recall seeing something (NIC or button battery shaped) when I replaced the MSC on the Onyx2.

I've not learnt that much beyond what I've dug up with the forum search, techpubs, and I am still investigating. Maybe I should pull the camera out and take some photos.

Anyway anyones $0.02 additions to the wiki would be helpful.

R.

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 Post subject: Re: Number in a can.
Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:03 pm 
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This thread has a photo of the IC that reportedly holds the system serial number <the thread was originally (mis)titled "M.I.C. (number in a can) module", I corrected the title to read "N .I.C. (number in a can) module" so it will turn up a little easier in a search. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16259&

If pinball_0 is right <and he certainly got the identification of the ICs that caused the early Fuel environmental issues right>, the Fuel doesn't store it's serial number/sysid in the number-in-a-can <similar in appearance to a button-cell battery> that's found on the previous generation of hardware.

PymbleSoftware wrote:
Maybe I should pull the camera out and take some photos
There's a photo rusti posted of the location of the number-in-a-can on an Onyx2 Deskside in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16723613&p=7325241&#p7325241

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 Post subject: Re: Number in a can.
Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:20 pm 
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Thanks, I've updated the wiki a little... at the very least someone should be able to point back to the wiki in future to explain what the number in a can is...

R.

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Cortex ---> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cortex-th ... 11?sk=info
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Book ----> http://pymblesoftware.com/book/
Github ---> https://github.com/pymblesoftware
Visit http://www.pymblesoftware.com
Search for "Pymble", "InstaElf", "CryWhy" or "Cricket Score Sheet" in the iPad App store or search for "Pymble" or "CryWhy" in the iPhone App store.


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 Post subject: Re: Number in a can.
Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:38 pm 
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quick reply from phone
the nic is a dallas semiconductor iButton. it has a 64 bit (?) serial number exclusive for each button. i d recomend you to search info in the www.maxim-semi.com site, or try google. sorr for the small reply but l am without net on my home.

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 Post subject: Re: Number in a can.
Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:50 pm 
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Tabalabs wrote:
the nic is a dallas semiconductor iButton. it has a 64 bit (?) serial number exclusive for each button. i d recomend you to search info in the http://www.maxim-semi.com site, or try google.

Thanks Tabalabs - following your suggestion, here's the "What's an iButton" page from Maxim-IC's web site: http://www.maxim-ic.com/products/ibutton/ibuttons/

and a reference that's more technically oriented towards SGI's use of the NIC, the LinuxMIPS wiki page "NIC": http://www.linux-mips.org/wiki/NIC

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 Post subject: Re: Number in a can.
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:03 am 
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I have a PDF file for the Atmel 24C04. I have made a link to the original site... Can't upload PDFs to the wiki ... not permitted, probably an option in mediawiki somewhere.

I have made some minor changes, anyone else can update the wiki page too, if they feel soo inclined...

We might want to identify which NIC goes with which machine. So far we have Octane, Origin 2000/Onyx2, possibly Fuel... What about Personal Iris/4D-35, O2, Crimson, Tezro, Indy, etc..???

Thanks.

R.

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:Tezro: :Tezro: :Onyx2R: :Onyx2RE: :Onyx2: :O3x04R: :O3x0: :O200: :Octane: :Octane2: :O2: :O2: :Indigo2IMP: :PI: :PI: :1600SW: :1600SW: :Indy: :Indy: :Indy: :Indy: :Indy:
:hpserv: J5600, 2 x Mac, 3 x SUN, Alpha DS20E, Alpha 800 5/550, 3 x RS/6000, Amiga 4000 VideoToaster, Amiga4000 -030, 733MHz Sam440 AmigaOS 4.1 update 1.

Sold: :Indy: :Indy: :Indy: :Indigo: Tandem Himalaya S-Series Nonstop S72000 ServerNet.

@PymbleSoftware
Cortex ---> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cortex-th ... 11?sk=info
Minnie ---> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Minnie-th ... 02?sk=info
Book ----> http://pymblesoftware.com/book/
Github ---> https://github.com/pymblesoftware
Visit http://www.pymblesoftware.com
Search for "Pymble", "InstaElf", "CryWhy" or "Cricket Score Sheet" in the iPad App store or search for "Pymble" or "CryWhy" in the iPhone App store.


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 Post subject: Re: Number in a can.
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:57 am 
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PymbleSoftware wrote:
What about Personal Iris/4D-35, O2, Crimson, Tezro, Indy, etc..???

NICs were introduced with the O2/Octane/Onyx2 generation of systems. Everything older than that used the MAC address of the (first) ethernet port. The exception is the Onyx1 which stores the serial number in battery backed NVRAM on the system controller and IO4.

* O2 has a NIC on the PCI riser. Looks a bit like a transistor. This number is also the MAC address which is why the O2 cannot initialize the network when the PCI riser is missing. This is a convenient way to keep the serial number intact even when just about any part of the O2 is replaced or upgraded.

* Crimson (and other 4D PowerSeries and older) use the MAC address of the ethernet port on the IO2/IO3/IO3B board.

* Personal Iris uses the MAC address, the ethernet chip is on the system board.

* Indy stores its MAC address in a DSxxxx battery backed RTC/NVRAM. It can be reprogrammed from the PROM monitor.

Big iron has "Snnnnn" format system serial numbers, workstations simply use the MAC address. For everything older than the Onyx1 the system serial number is unrelated to the hostid used to nodelock licenses.

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 Post subject: Re: Number in a can.
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:02 am 
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Cool, thanks ... that only leaves later stuff like Fuel, Tezro, Onyx4, etc...

wiki updated.

R.

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:Tezro: :Tezro: :Onyx2R: :Onyx2RE: :Onyx2: :O3x04R: :O3x0: :O200: :Octane: :Octane2: :O2: :O2: :Indigo2IMP: :PI: :PI: :1600SW: :1600SW: :Indy: :Indy: :Indy: :Indy: :Indy:
:hpserv: J5600, 2 x Mac, 3 x SUN, Alpha DS20E, Alpha 800 5/550, 3 x RS/6000, Amiga 4000 VideoToaster, Amiga4000 -030, 733MHz Sam440 AmigaOS 4.1 update 1.

Sold: :Indy: :Indy: :Indy: :Indigo: Tandem Himalaya S-Series Nonstop S72000 ServerNet.

@PymbleSoftware
Cortex ---> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cortex-th ... 11?sk=info
Minnie ---> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Minnie-th ... 02?sk=info
Book ----> http://pymblesoftware.com/book/
Github ---> https://github.com/pymblesoftware
Visit http://www.pymblesoftware.com
Search for "Pymble", "InstaElf", "CryWhy" or "Cricket Score Sheet" in the iPad App store or search for "Pymble" or "CryWhy" in the iPhone App store.


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