Raptor Talos POWER8 Workstation

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ClassicHasClass
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Raptor Talos POWER8 Workstation

Unread postby ClassicHasClass » Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:06 pm

An OpenPOWER workstation for about $3100. That's just under what I paid for my quad G5 new, so this is not a bad price at all. I've signed up for notification of preorders.

https://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc ... 00000.html
https://raptorengineeringinc.com/TALOS/prerelease.php

Anybody know anything about these guys? This sounds pretty damn good. (Yes, BYO case/RAM/etc. That's no biggie.)
smit happens.

:Fuel: bigred, 900MHz R16K, 4GB RAM, V12 DCD, 6.5.30
:Indy: indy, 150MHz R4400SC, 256MB RAM, XL24, 6.5.10
:Indigo2IMP: purplehaze, 175MHz R10000, Solid IMPACT
probably posted from Image bruce, Quad 2.5GHz PowerPC 970MP, 16GB RAM, Mac OS X 10.4.11
plus IBM POWER6 p520 * Apple Network Server 500 * RDI PrecisionBook * BeBox * Solbourne S3000 * Commodore 128 * many more...

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Re: Raptor Talos POWER8 Workstation

Unread postby foetz » Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:10 pm

ha, a new risc workstation. haven't seen that in a while and it feels oh so good :P
didn't see anything about the os tho. does aix run there?

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Re: Raptor Talos POWER8 Workstation

Unread postby ClassicHasClass » Fri Feb 05, 2016 4:39 pm

I doubt it. I imagine this is Linux and I'm sure one of the BSDs will get on it soon.
smit happens.

:Fuel: bigred, 900MHz R16K, 4GB RAM, V12 DCD, 6.5.30
:Indy: indy, 150MHz R4400SC, 256MB RAM, XL24, 6.5.10
:Indigo2IMP: purplehaze, 175MHz R10000, Solid IMPACT
probably posted from Image bruce, Quad 2.5GHz PowerPC 970MP, 16GB RAM, Mac OS X 10.4.11
plus IBM POWER6 p520 * Apple Network Server 500 * RDI PrecisionBook * BeBox * Solbourne S3000 * Commodore 128 * many more...

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Re: Raptor Talos POWER8 Workstation

Unread postby foetz » Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:12 pm

ah too bad. doesn't make much sense then

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Re: Raptor Talos POWER8 Workstation

Unread postby ClassicHasClass » Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:21 pm

Well, it's the use case: if the desire was a cheaper AIX workstation, I don't think this was ever intended to serve that purpose. If the desire is a more modern POWER-based (or even just non-x86) workstation, then I think it does. The price premium doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

Sure, you could get a Linux workstation for much less, but for me what matters is under the hood.
smit happens.

:Fuel: bigred, 900MHz R16K, 4GB RAM, V12 DCD, 6.5.30
:Indy: indy, 150MHz R4400SC, 256MB RAM, XL24, 6.5.10
:Indigo2IMP: purplehaze, 175MHz R10000, Solid IMPACT
probably posted from Image bruce, Quad 2.5GHz PowerPC 970MP, 16GB RAM, Mac OS X 10.4.11
plus IBM POWER6 p520 * Apple Network Server 500 * RDI PrecisionBook * BeBox * Solbourne S3000 * Commodore 128 * many more...

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Re: Raptor Talos POWER8 Workstation

Unread postby foetz » Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:30 pm

ClassicHasClass wrote:Well, it's the use case: if the desire was a cheaper AIX workstation, I don't think this was ever intended to serve that purpose. If the desire is a more modern POWER-based (or even just non-x86) workstation, then I think it does. The price premium doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

Sure, you could get a Linux workstation for much less, but for me what matters is under the hood.

well both matters. i see no sense in having non-x86 hardware for running linux (big irons from sgi or cray aside although i'd like to see something custom on these too). a linux which i may add has a number of disadvantages compared to x86 linux (same goes for bsd). it's not like the risc machines beat the crap out of an ordinary peecee anymore as it's been back in the day so there has to be a good reason.
the major plus of proprietary stuff is the combination of a great machine and a professional, custom taylored os. as soon as one of the two is missing it doesn't make much sense anymore assuming what's left isn't way above everything else.

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Re: Raptor Talos POWER8 Workstation

Unread postby ClassicHasClass » Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:56 pm

No, I dispute that. I don't think proprietary Unix is necessarily a selling point myself. Maybe it's because I already have the hardware, but I don't like not knowing what IBM or Snoracle is doing in that black box they call a kernel and I don't have any tools around it.

I enjoy Irix, I like AIX, I can tolerate Solaris, I used to like OS X. But for AIX in particular I've gritted my teeth that it's more and more locked down, with needing HMCs to do anything now and APARs behind service contracts and paywalls. In that context, I don't think a non-x86 Linux is a disadvantage (I don't mind building my own binaries), especially on a platform this open, and a 12-core POWER8 is hardly small potatoes. Server-grade ARM so far has been a bust and SPARC workstations died off years ago. If we're going to actually have choices in the architecture we buy instead of CPUs we don't know what the hell they're up to, then people need to pony up for things like this.

Anyway, I think we're fundamentally disagreed on this point, but I hope enough orders come in for them to do a production run. I'm actually budgeting for two.
smit happens.

:Fuel: bigred, 900MHz R16K, 4GB RAM, V12 DCD, 6.5.30
:Indy: indy, 150MHz R4400SC, 256MB RAM, XL24, 6.5.10
:Indigo2IMP: purplehaze, 175MHz R10000, Solid IMPACT
probably posted from Image bruce, Quad 2.5GHz PowerPC 970MP, 16GB RAM, Mac OS X 10.4.11
plus IBM POWER6 p520 * Apple Network Server 500 * RDI PrecisionBook * BeBox * Solbourne S3000 * Commodore 128 * many more...

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Re: Raptor Talos POWER8 Workstation

Unread postby foetz » Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:10 pm

ClassicHasClass wrote:Anyway, I think we're fundamentally disagreed on this point, but I hope enough orders come in for them to do a production run. I'm actually budgeting for two.

hehe yeah seems so but either way i do hope that takes off as well of course. getting back some variety to the hardware maket is crucial since monocultures are always bad in many ways

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Re: Raptor Talos POWER8 Workstation

Unread postby jirka » Sun Feb 07, 2016 5:50 am

It looks great. I can imagine several good uses for such machine.

It's a bit expensive for me, unfortunately :-(
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Re: Raptor Talos POWER8 Workstation

Unread postby tingo » Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:48 am

Yep, to much money for me to splurge for a thing that I will use as a "toy".
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Re: Raptor Talos POWER8 Workstation

Unread postby Sacrifist » Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:59 pm

Workstation eh? Might need decent graphics adapter support. Are there open source drivers for AMD/NVIDIA (or other notable) graphics on POWER/PPC?

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Re: Raptor Talos POWER8 Workstation

Unread postby ClassicHasClass » Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:56 pm

Yes, though not good ones, AIUI. But that improves with a bigger userbase and hopefully the unit will be attractive to a certain class of user (crazy and rich ;) ).
smit happens.

:Fuel: bigred, 900MHz R16K, 4GB RAM, V12 DCD, 6.5.30
:Indy: indy, 150MHz R4400SC, 256MB RAM, XL24, 6.5.10
:Indigo2IMP: purplehaze, 175MHz R10000, Solid IMPACT
probably posted from Image bruce, Quad 2.5GHz PowerPC 970MP, 16GB RAM, Mac OS X 10.4.11
plus IBM POWER6 p520 * Apple Network Server 500 * RDI PrecisionBook * BeBox * Solbourne S3000 * Commodore 128 * many more...

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Re: Raptor Talos POWER8 Workstation

Unread postby jan-jaap » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:36 am

Sacrifist wrote:Workstation eh? Might need decent graphics adapter support. Are there open source drivers for AMD/NVIDIA (or other notable) graphics on POWER/PPC?

Open source drivers: yes. But if I understand correctly, the claim to fame of this platform is "open", "owner controllable" etc etc. So no binary firmware blobs. Good luck finding an AMD/NVIDIA graphics card without those.
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Re: Raptor Talos POWER8 Workstation

Unread postby ClassicHasClass » Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:49 am

It seems the specific design of the IOMMU would prevent malicious firmware on the card from getting back into the full address space, though I don't think anyone's tested that. The Phoronix thread talks about it a little (see below).

Since I last pimped this mercilessly, Raptor has dropped the price to a flat $3000 and there are now some early benchmarks up from them and Phoronix -- which means it actually does exist, at least in prototype form. The current rumour is that they'll need 2000 requests to do a production run. I sent them an E-mail to clarify, but haven't heard back yet. I'll just link my blogpost, since there are a number of links in it.

http://tenfourfox.blogspot.com/2016/02/ ... ower8.html
smit happens.

:Fuel: bigred, 900MHz R16K, 4GB RAM, V12 DCD, 6.5.30
:Indy: indy, 150MHz R4400SC, 256MB RAM, XL24, 6.5.10
:Indigo2IMP: purplehaze, 175MHz R10000, Solid IMPACT
probably posted from Image bruce, Quad 2.5GHz PowerPC 970MP, 16GB RAM, Mac OS X 10.4.11
plus IBM POWER6 p520 * Apple Network Server 500 * RDI PrecisionBook * BeBox * Solbourne S3000 * Commodore 128 * many more...

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Re: Raptor Talos POWER8 Workstation

Unread postby ClassicHasClass » Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:53 am

I got followup mail from Raptor: "We are rapidly approaching the interest level required to make Talos a reality."

Currently the pricepoint is $2700 for the mo'bo', heatsink and I/O plate. Unfortunately, the CPU is now being sold separately. The baseline 8-core 130W POWER8 part is $1000, so total base cost is $3700 plus whatever options you want to add. I'm assuming the price change is based on exactly how many interest entries they got.

I'm still planning to pick up two and replied to the included link with a reservation for two, though I'll only build out one and use the other as spare parts. I'm interested to see what they'll sell the 12-core 190W part for. They are not accepting money yet, but will be taking deposits soon with the rest payable prior to shipping.
smit happens.

:Fuel: bigred, 900MHz R16K, 4GB RAM, V12 DCD, 6.5.30
:Indy: indy, 150MHz R4400SC, 256MB RAM, XL24, 6.5.10
:Indigo2IMP: purplehaze, 175MHz R10000, Solid IMPACT
probably posted from Image bruce, Quad 2.5GHz PowerPC 970MP, 16GB RAM, Mac OS X 10.4.11
plus IBM POWER6 p520 * Apple Network Server 500 * RDI PrecisionBook * BeBox * Solbourne S3000 * Commodore 128 * many more...


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