So, that 425t I have that has a 715t label on the front

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So, that 425t I have that has a 715t label on the front

Unread postby ClassicHasClass » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:15 pm

I finally dragged it out tonight.

The front says "HP Apollo" with a 715t/33 sticker stuck under it. The rear says 425t and there is a Domain/OS keyboard port. (Amusingly, it has a Sun Microsystems asset tag.)

I crack it open by taking off the front panel and sliding off the top. Drumroll please.

The Domain/OS keyboard port is ... not connected to anything. Indeed as labeled, it's (mostly) a 715 internally with a PA-7100LC CPU. However, it has a 425t-type video board in a DIO-II slot (it is an A2089-66530 card with BNC RGB and audio, and my HP 98782A hernia monitor I use with my 9000/350 does NOT like the frequencies), the 425t front-lights and the 425t panel buttons.

HP makes reference to the 715t/33 in one of their technical docs but overall this thing seems to be an odd duck. The HP Museum doesn't seem to mention it.

Anyone know much about these? I assume it was an HP aftermarket upgrade, or did they actually sell these directly?
smit happens.

:Fuel: bigred, 900MHz R16K, 4GB RAM, V12 DCD, 6.5.30
:Indy: indy, 150MHz R4400SC, 256MB RAM, XL24, 6.5.10
:Indigo2IMP: purplehaze, 175MHz R10000, Solid IMPACT
probably posted from Image bruce, Quad 2.5GHz PowerPC 970MP, 16GB RAM, Mac OS X 10.4.11
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Re: So, that 425t I have that has a 715t label on the front

Unread postby miod » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:40 pm

This is one of the two in-chassis upgrades available from HP. You could get a 425e upgraded into a 705 (or 710?), and a 425t upgraded into a 715. While the 425e upgrade made sense as it has exactly the same chassis as the 705/710, and the motherboards share the same form factor and external connector placement, model t upgrades are a bit more "rock'n'roll".

The video board is probably an SGC board, not a DIO one, as there has never been (to the best of my knowledge) any kind of DIO-II support in PA-RISC machines and HP-UX, while the 4xx systems had an SGC option (the motherboard has both a DIO-II and an SGC connector, but the chassis only support one slot, so you had to decide at order time, depending upon your frame buffer option). You can check that easily by looking for a set of DIO select code DIP switches on the board.

I would not be surprised if the HP-IB option (if your 425t had it) also ends up with a dangling connector.

On the other hand, the audio chip of the 715 is probably missing, or with no external connectors.

Could you take some pictures of this machine? I'd love to see what it looks like internally.
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Re: So, that 425t I have that has a 715t label on the front

Unread postby ClassicHasClass » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:22 pm

I took some pictures but I keep getting logged out of Nekochan trying to post them. It could be the hotel Wi-Fi, so I'll try again when I'm back at Floodgap Orbiting HQ.

However, you appear to be correct about the video board. There's a small DIP switch block on it but it doesn't look like a DIO select code block.
smit happens.

:Fuel: bigred, 900MHz R16K, 4GB RAM, V12 DCD, 6.5.30
:Indy: indy, 150MHz R4400SC, 256MB RAM, XL24, 6.5.10
:Indigo2IMP: purplehaze, 175MHz R10000, Solid IMPACT
probably posted from Image bruce, Quad 2.5GHz PowerPC 970MP, 16GB RAM, Mac OS X 10.4.11
plus IBM POWER6 p520 * Apple Network Server 500 * RDI PrecisionBook * BeBox * Solbourne S3000 * Commodore 128 * many more...

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Re: So, that 425t I have that has a 715t label on the front

Unread postby ClassicHasClass » Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:22 pm

Here is pr0n. You look.

IMG_20170405_102836.jpg
Front


Note that the audio is on the video board:
IMG_20170405_102911.jpg
Rear

IMG_20170405_102922.jpg
Enlargement of backplate


IMG_20170405_103130.jpg
Internals with video board pulled out

IMG_20170405_103145.jpg
Internals with video board in
smit happens.

:Fuel: bigred, 900MHz R16K, 4GB RAM, V12 DCD, 6.5.30
:Indy: indy, 150MHz R4400SC, 256MB RAM, XL24, 6.5.10
:Indigo2IMP: purplehaze, 175MHz R10000, Solid IMPACT
probably posted from Image bruce, Quad 2.5GHz PowerPC 970MP, 16GB RAM, Mac OS X 10.4.11
plus IBM POWER6 p520 * Apple Network Server 500 * RDI PrecisionBook * BeBox * Solbourne S3000 * Commodore 128 * many more...

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Re: So, that 425t I have that has a 715t label on the front

Unread postby miod » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:36 pm

ClassicHasClass wrote:However, you appear to be correct about the video board. There's a small DIP switch block on it but it doesn't look like a DIO select code block.

This is definitely an SGC board - DIO-II boards also have two connectors on the edge, one large and one much smaller. This seems to be the regular CRX board found on SGC 425 and 720/730, with the 735/755 audio board (which was also SGC) squeezed onto it.

Also, the ISA slot seems to be functional, as the associated circuitry on the motherboard is still present.

While intended to be used with the Apollo Token-Ring board only, there might be some support for other ISA boards under HP/UX. You might want to see what drivers sam will let you choose...

EDIT: CRX, not VRX.
Last edited by miod on Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So, that 425t I have that has a 715t label on the front

Unread postby kjaer » Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:40 am

Also interesting it uses S400-style memory, rather than the 72-pin SIMMs of the 715. What a funny mongrel of a machine.
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Re: So, that 425t I have that has a 715t label on the front

Unread postby ClassicHasClass » Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:47 am

The C2300-60005 video cable I have doesn't work with my NEC multisync monitors, so I'm trying to find something that will work with its video output to explore the machine further.

Also, since the 9000/350 has my only HP-HIL cable, if anyone has any others they'd like to sell (I have keyboards, just not cables), please PM.
smit happens.

:Fuel: bigred, 900MHz R16K, 4GB RAM, V12 DCD, 6.5.30
:Indy: indy, 150MHz R4400SC, 256MB RAM, XL24, 6.5.10
:Indigo2IMP: purplehaze, 175MHz R10000, Solid IMPACT
probably posted from Image bruce, Quad 2.5GHz PowerPC 970MP, 16GB RAM, Mac OS X 10.4.11
plus IBM POWER6 p520 * Apple Network Server 500 * RDI PrecisionBook * BeBox * Solbourne S3000 * Commodore 128 * many more...

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Re: So, that 425t I have that has a 715t label on the front

Unread postby miod » Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:57 pm

ClassicHasClass wrote:Also, since the 9000/350 has my only HP-HIL cable, if anyone has any others they'd like to sell (I have keyboards, just not cables), please PM.

I'll have a look, but I don't think I have spare HIL cables. Remember however that HP-HIL supports hotplug nicely, so you should be able to move your keyboard between boxes without any issue.
:Indigo:R3000 (alas, dead) :Indigo:R4000 x4 :Indigo2:R4400 :Indigo2IMP:R4400 x2 :Indigo2:R8000 :Indigo2IMP:R10000 :Indy:R4000PC :Indy:R4000SC :Indy:R4400SC :Indy:R4600 :Indy:R5000SC :O2:R5000 x3 :O2:RM7000 :Octane:2xR10000 :Octane:R12000 :O200:2xR12000 :O200: - :O200:2x2xR10000 :Fuel:R16000 :O3x0:4xR16000 :A350:
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Re: So, that 425t I have that has a 715t label on the front

Unread postby ClassicHasClass » Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:37 pm

The one cable I have has a faulty wing, so I'd prefer to keep it connected to the HP system that is working. ;)
smit happens.

:Fuel: bigred, 900MHz R16K, 4GB RAM, V12 DCD, 6.5.30
:Indy: indy, 150MHz R4400SC, 256MB RAM, XL24, 6.5.10
:Indigo2IMP: purplehaze, 175MHz R10000, Solid IMPACT
probably posted from Image bruce, Quad 2.5GHz PowerPC 970MP, 16GB RAM, Mac OS X 10.4.11
plus IBM POWER6 p520 * Apple Network Server 500 * RDI PrecisionBook * BeBox * Solbourne S3000 * Commodore 128 * many more...

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Re: So, that 425t I have that has a 715t label on the front

Unread postby ClassicHasClass » Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:49 pm

Hmm. My G5's flat panel does work with the 715t, but ... well, there's a bigger problem.

http://www.floodgap.com/iv/3270

Maybe I could see how it works with NeXTSTEP.
smit happens.

:Fuel: bigred, 900MHz R16K, 4GB RAM, V12 DCD, 6.5.30
:Indy: indy, 150MHz R4400SC, 256MB RAM, XL24, 6.5.10
:Indigo2IMP: purplehaze, 175MHz R10000, Solid IMPACT
probably posted from Image bruce, Quad 2.5GHz PowerPC 970MP, 16GB RAM, Mac OS X 10.4.11
plus IBM POWER6 p520 * Apple Network Server 500 * RDI PrecisionBook * BeBox * Solbourne S3000 * Commodore 128 * many more...

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Re: So, that 425t I have that has a 715t label on the front

Unread postby kjaer » Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:26 am

Not any better, if that's really a VRX. NEXTSTEP only supports CRX and Artist graphics.
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Re: So, that 425t I have that has a 715t label on the front

Unread postby ClassicHasClass » Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:43 pm

I'm trying to get more info on the card. HP barely mentions it in their part lists, and no one else seems to know much about it. miod, how did you know it was a VRX?
smit happens.

:Fuel: bigred, 900MHz R16K, 4GB RAM, V12 DCD, 6.5.30
:Indy: indy, 150MHz R4400SC, 256MB RAM, XL24, 6.5.10
:Indigo2IMP: purplehaze, 175MHz R10000, Solid IMPACT
probably posted from Image bruce, Quad 2.5GHz PowerPC 970MP, 16GB RAM, Mac OS X 10.4.11
plus IBM POWER6 p520 * Apple Network Server 500 * RDI PrecisionBook * BeBox * Solbourne S3000 * Commodore 128 * many more...

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Re: So, that 425t I have that has a 715t label on the front

Unread postby miod » Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:11 pm

ClassicHasClass wrote:I'm trying to get more info on the card. HP barely mentions it in their part lists, and no one else seems to know much about it. miod, how did you know it was a VRX?

I didn't know and I made a typo; I meant CRX.

I initially thought the video part of that board would be a packed version of the A1659, hence CRX. But checking your pic against an A1659 shows this is wrong. The CRX has four 1820-8311 chips and its ROM is 1818-5107. The grayscale GRX (A1924) is similar, but ROM is 1818-5120.

Your board has ROM 1818-5347, which implies it is more recent. Also, its vram chip look like those found on EISA-form SGC video boards found on... true 715 systems. So it could be an Artist rather than a CRX.
:Indigo:R3000 (alas, dead) :Indigo:R4000 x4 :Indigo2:R4400 :Indigo2IMP:R4400 x2 :Indigo2:R8000 :Indigo2IMP:R10000 :Indy:R4000PC :Indy:R4000SC :Indy:R4400SC :Indy:R4600 :Indy:R5000SC :O2:R5000 x3 :O2:RM7000 :Octane:2xR10000 :Octane:R12000 :O200:2xR12000 :O200: - :O200:2x2xR10000 :Fuel:R16000 :O3x0:4xR16000 :A350:
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Re: So, that 425t I have that has a 715t label on the front

Unread postby miod » Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:14 pm

Also, while discussing board layout, the audio part of your board is almost identical to the A2288 (audio + optional fddi on 735/755), with a set of six orange IC being put in a slightly different grid. The 1821-0050 chip is also part of the audio half; all the other 1821 chips are for video.
:Indigo:R3000 (alas, dead) :Indigo:R4000 x4 :Indigo2:R4400 :Indigo2IMP:R4400 x2 :Indigo2:R8000 :Indigo2IMP:R10000 :Indy:R4000PC :Indy:R4000SC :Indy:R4400SC :Indy:R4600 :Indy:R5000SC :O2:R5000 x3 :O2:RM7000 :Octane:2xR10000 :Octane:R12000 :O200:2xR12000 :O200: - :O200:2x2xR10000 :Fuel:R16000 :O3x0:4xR16000 :A350:
among more than 150 machines : Apollo, Data General, Digital, HP, IBM, MIPS before SGI, Motorola, NeXT, SGI, Solbourne, Sun...

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Re: So, that 425t I have that has a 715t label on the front

Unread postby ClassicHasClass » Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:47 am

Verrrrry interesting, thank you. That makes sense.

I managed to land the HP technical docs for the 400->700 update as part of another eBay auction. When those arrive, I'll post what it recommends. NeXTSTEP will wait until I'm back in town. :)
smit happens.

:Fuel: bigred, 900MHz R16K, 4GB RAM, V12 DCD, 6.5.30
:Indy: indy, 150MHz R4400SC, 256MB RAM, XL24, 6.5.10
:Indigo2IMP: purplehaze, 175MHz R10000, Solid IMPACT
probably posted from Image bruce, Quad 2.5GHz PowerPC 970MP, 16GB RAM, Mac OS X 10.4.11
plus IBM POWER6 p520 * Apple Network Server 500 * RDI PrecisionBook * BeBox * Solbourne S3000 * Commodore 128 * many more...


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