Diagnosing an HP Visualize C3000

HP/DEC/Compaq workstations/servers and operating systems (HP-UX, Tru64, OpenVMS, NonStop, etc.)
Forum rules
Any posts concerning pirated software or offering to buy/sell/trade commercial software are subject to removal.
compgeke
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:34 pm

Diagnosing an HP Visualize C3000

Unread postby compgeke » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:39 pm

I recently picked up an HP C3000, one with 512 megs ram, FX4 graphics, 9 gig and 36 gig HDD. The problem I'm having is I can't get the thing to actually boot\post. Here's what all happens: Plug it in, PSU light turns on, an amber light beside the TOC button does a double flash, pause, repeat forever. When you turn it on the front LCD has the top row turn to all blocks before just displaying nothing other than a very very faint outline of all blocks, nothing moving. The amber LED switches to a single slow blink rather than double rapid blink. Nothing else happens other than the hard drives spinning up and the CD drive access light staying solid on (but can't open the tray). No graphics output at all using the FX4 card, a Monoprice M1-A adapter and a Dell 19" monitor.

Looking in the service manual and owners manual for this (and some other models) I'm not finding anything describing what the LED on the back means. I do get the green LED on the front of the board when turning the system on but I'm not sure if that's the LED the manual says is supposed to turn green or the rear one, it doesn't specify.

Anyone have any ideas what to check out next (like does this have a serial console similar to the Sun RSC card in the V480s?).

User avatar
Alver
Posts: 773
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:46 pm
Location: Wetteren, Belgium
Contact:

Re: Diagnosing an HP Visualize C3000

Unread postby Alver » Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:55 am

Yes, it has a serial port. Power the machine down, hook something up there, power it on again.

It's been a (very, VERY) long time since I've messed with UX machines of that era, but I recall that those machines could be quite picky about monitors. Hooking up a different monitor or using a different graphics card means you have to reconfigure the console to be able to use it. In the service manual, there's a section about the monitor command; skim through that while booting it with a serial console.
while (!asleep()) sheep++;

kramlq
Donor
Donor
Posts: 981
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:10 pm
Location: IRL

Re: Diagnosing an HP Visualize C3000

Unread postby kramlq » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:17 am

TBH it sounds like a problem more complex than this... but just as a precaution, take off the side panel and put it back on, ensuring it is firmly in place, with the thumb screws tightened. I think there is some switch that detects when the side isn't properly fastened and it wont boot. I had a C3750 that wouldn't boot after shipping, and this was the problem - the panel wasn't correctly in place.

User avatar
johnnym
Donor
Donor
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:53 pm

Re: Diagnosing an HP Visualize C3000

Unread postby johnnym » Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:15 am

kramlq wrote:TBH it sounds like a problem more complex than this... but just as a precaution, take off the side panel and put it back on, ensuring it is firmly in place, with the thumb screws tightened. I think there is some switch that detects when the side isn't properly fastened and it wont boot.[...]

Yes, that's true, the switch/button is located in the PSU and there is a bolt on the cover that pushes it in. But if it is not pushed in, the machine doesn't power on at all AFAIR. But it's always a good idea to first have a look into the machine for any loose parts, but I assume this was already done.

Alver wrote:Yes, it has a serial port. Power the machine down, hook something up there, power it on again. [...].

Chassis codes (see service manual) are or should be shown on the internal display first before the machine will actually switch to the console device. I think this is the first serial port, if no keyboard is attached, or if no graphics board is attached in addition. IIRC it takes a couple of dozen seconds until the machine activates the console depending on how much memory and possibly other hardware is tested.

The machine of compgeke does not show any messages on the internal display, which is similar to my c3000 (the dead one in my signature). I have the same issues. I tried reseating the CPU but it didn't help in my case. I assume it's either my CPU that's defective or my system board. Without a good spare for one of them it's hard to say which one is the problem actually.

@compgeke:
Maybe you remove your graphics board and hook up a serial terminal to the first serial port (9600 bps, 8 data bits, no parity and 1 stop bit) and power the machine up. It should show some output after maybe a few minutes. I assume the default console is on the first serial port, but maybe I'm wrong, so perhaps also try with the second port. The flow diagram for troubleshooting recommends to reseat or replace the display if the "Green system board LED lights". I don't know if the display is really needed for the POST of these machines. I should perhaps check this.
:Indy: :O2: :Octane: :Octane2: :O200: = :O200: - :O200: = :O200: (O200 cluster w/2 GIGAchannel cabinets)
[ ( hp ) ] 712/80 c3000 (dead) :hpserv: (J5600) c3700 c3750 c8000 rp2470 :rx2600: (rx2620) rx4640
| d | i | g | i | t | a | l | AXPpci33 AlphaStation 200 4/166 AlphaStation 255 300 Personal Workstation 500au AlphaServer DS20E
C O B A L T Qube 2 Qube 3 RaQ RaQ 2 RaQ 4r RaQ XTR

compgeke
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:34 pm

Re: Diagnosing an HP Visualize C3000

Unread postby compgeke » Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:01 pm

Well, I would try out a serial port but I actually finally got something on the front LCD randomly, and it's not a very promising error. "FLT 8870: IO BD / R2PCI init fail" Manual says "Couldn’t initialize Rope-to-PCI bridge 0.". PCI bridge not working isn't exactly the best thing I wanted but it'd explain nothing working.

Time to play around some more.

Edit:
Going back over other posts:
Side panel: Without the side panel (or something pushing the switch) it won't turn on at all. If you remove the side with it on it'll just shut off immediately.

Reseating stuff: Already tried reseating everything removable, swapping around ram, removing ram and hoping from errors, removing video card. No change at all in machine behavior.

Serial Terminal: I'll have to try that tonight but based on my lack of errors and then getting a PCI bridge 0 failure I'm not too hopeful of getting anything. Unfortunately my Wyse WY-55 has decided not to work so I'll have to dig up my USB serial adapter or something with a serial port.

Green LED Lights: I'm actually not sure *which* lights are supposed to be green. I have a green one towards the front and amber towards the back and HP's manuals don't differentiate between the two, whether or not there's a system board heartbeat rather than only on the LCD, etc.

User avatar
johnnym
Donor
Donor
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:53 pm

Re: Diagnosing an HP Visualize C3000

Unread postby johnnym » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:16 am

After digging out my c3750 and the broken c3000, I checked and logged the behaviour of the working c3750 on startup.

This is what I got:

Code: Select all

Startup of HP Workstation c3750 w/4 GiB of memory (8 x 512 MiB memory modules)

                               | amber LED (back)             | PSU LED | green LED (front)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After applying power:          | on off on off off off REPEAT | on      | off
After hitting the power button | on off on off off off REPEAT | on      | on
|                              |                              |         |
| after about 5 seconds        |                              |         |
V                              |                              |         |
Fan speed increases            | on on off off REPEAT         | on      | on
|                              |                              |         |
| after 31 seconds (36s total) |                              |         |
V                              |                              |         |
Serial console is activated    | on on off off REPEAT         | on      | on
|                              |                              |         |
| after 12 seconds (48s total) |                              |         |
V                              |                              |         |
Fan speed decreases            | on off on off off off REPEAT | on      | on

                                 -------------------->
                                                    t


"on off on off off off REPEAT" means that the LED blinks two times and then is off for about a second or so and then repeats this sequence.
"on on off off REPEAT" means that the LED is on for about a second and then off for about a second or so and then repeats this sequence.

NOTICE: Initially I measured a longer time (about 56s) until the serial console was activated. So it could be that on a "first" start in a row of consecutive starts with no big delay in between, the machine does more in depth testing, e.g. for the memory modules.

I have not seen the amber LED at any time emitting green light, and also the green LED never emitted amber light. Hence I believe HP means the the green LED that is located close to the front ("Right Edge" of the system board, according to the service manual, page 148) when it speaks of the "Green system board LED" in the "Troubleshooting Flow" in the service manual on page 50 .

EDIT: As the green LED is not that easy to spot if it doesn't light up, here's a picture where it can be found on the system board of the c3750 (same for system board of the c3000):

c3750-system-board-right-edge-green-led.jpg


The c3750 also works without the small display with power button attached, although to power it on without it, one has to leave the machine powered up and then has to remove power. This way as soon as power is reapplied the machine starts automatically.

For my broken c3000 I today could make sure that the display with power button is working OK (in the c3750). But the green LED of the system board in the c3000 does not light up when the machine is started. According to the "Troubleshooting Flow" in the service manual on page 50 the system board should be replaced for this behaviour.

@compgeke:
I don't know if your described behaviour ("FLT 8870: IO BD / R2PCI init fail") tells that the CPU is OK but the system board is not. When removing the graphics board, does the PCI bridge error still appear?
Last edited by johnnym on Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
:Indy: :O2: :Octane: :Octane2: :O200: = :O200: - :O200: = :O200: (O200 cluster w/2 GIGAchannel cabinets)
[ ( hp ) ] 712/80 c3000 (dead) :hpserv: (J5600) c3700 c3750 c8000 rp2470 :rx2600: (rx2620) rx4640
| d | i | g | i | t | a | l | AXPpci33 AlphaStation 200 4/166 AlphaStation 255 300 Personal Workstation 500au AlphaServer DS20E
C O B A L T Qube 2 Qube 3 RaQ RaQ 2 RaQ 4r RaQ XTR

compgeke
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:34 pm

Re: Diagnosing an HP Visualize C3000

Unread postby compgeke » Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:08 am

PCI bridge error does still occur without the GPU. At least, it will come up after a few tries of turning it on, off, unplug, repeat to make the display do something other than all blocks. I'll have to try giving the board a good dusting and if that doesn't work maybe try the 100% proper method of throwing the board in the oven for a bit to try and see if maybe I have a bad BGA joint somewhere. After all, if it's already pretty much dead what harm can it do?

While not necessarily fixing stuff, here are some pics of the system if anyone's wondering what one of these looks like. Not a lot of C3000 pics on the internet, at least ones that aren't from ebay ads. http://imgur.com/a/FhVtQ

User avatar
ClassicHasClass
Donor
Donor
Posts: 1939
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:12 pm
Location: Sunny So Cal
Contact:

Re: Diagnosing an HP Visualize C3000

Unread postby ClassicHasClass » Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:54 am

They're attractive systems. I admin'ed a C3750 for a brief period as one of my last jobs before getting out of IT entirely (the biology department was using it for visualization). Unfortunately I remember very little of dealing with the guts, since it was nearly new and worked perfectly.
smit happens.

:Fuel: bigred, 900MHz R16K, 4GB RAM, V12 DCD, 6.5.30
:Indy: indy, 150MHz R4400SC, 256MB RAM, XL24, 6.5.10
:Indigo2IMP: purplehaze, 175MHz R10000, Solid IMPACT
probably posted from Image bruce, Quad 2.5GHz PowerPC 970MP, 16GB RAM, Mac OS X 10.4.11
plus IBM POWER6 p520 * Apple Network Server 500 * RDI PrecisionBook * BeBox * Solbourne S3000 * Commodore 128 * many more...

User avatar
johnnym
Donor
Donor
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:53 pm

Re: Diagnosing an HP Visualize C3000

Unread postby johnnym » Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:06 am

compgeke wrote:Not a lot of C3000 pics on the internet, at least ones that aren't from ebay ads. http://imgur.com/a/FhVtQ

Wow, that's a perfect looking c3000 - mine was badly damaged during shipment because of careless packaging. I like those printings on the cover for the c3000. Later machines (at least c3700 and c3750) sadly no longer have these, the J5600 does have them, too, though.
:Indy: :O2: :Octane: :Octane2: :O200: = :O200: - :O200: = :O200: (O200 cluster w/2 GIGAchannel cabinets)
[ ( hp ) ] 712/80 c3000 (dead) :hpserv: (J5600) c3700 c3750 c8000 rp2470 :rx2600: (rx2620) rx4640
| d | i | g | i | t | a | l | AXPpci33 AlphaStation 200 4/166 AlphaStation 255 300 Personal Workstation 500au AlphaServer DS20E
C O B A L T Qube 2 Qube 3 RaQ RaQ 2 RaQ 4r RaQ XTR

User avatar
johnnym
Donor
Donor
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:53 pm

Re: Diagnosing an HP Visualize C3000

Unread postby johnnym » Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:49 am

Looks like the PSUs used in the HP c-class machines do not only look like they're the same but are indeed all of the same type:

For my c3750 I have an Artesyn NFS500-9632E:

hp-c3750-psu.jpg
hp-c3750-psu.jpg (22.12 KiB) Viewed 244 times


...which seems to be the same type as for the c3000. So it should be possible to use spare boards w/CPUs of later machines to "repair" or upgrade older machines with broken system boards.

Does anybody have some experience in using older CPUs on newer system boards, e.g. the PA-8500 @400 MHz of the c3000 in the system board of a c3700?
:Indy: :O2: :Octane: :Octane2: :O200: = :O200: - :O200: = :O200: (O200 cluster w/2 GIGAchannel cabinets)
[ ( hp ) ] 712/80 c3000 (dead) :hpserv: (J5600) c3700 c3750 c8000 rp2470 :rx2600: (rx2620) rx4640
| d | i | g | i | t | a | l | AXPpci33 AlphaStation 200 4/166 AlphaStation 255 300 Personal Workstation 500au AlphaServer DS20E
C O B A L T Qube 2 Qube 3 RaQ RaQ 2 RaQ 4r RaQ XTR

compgeke
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:34 pm

Re: Diagnosing an HP Visualize C3000

Unread postby compgeke » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:07 am

The boards themselves for the C3000, C3600, C3650 and C3700 look almost identical but the one difference I notice is S1 is missing from below the power connectors. It's on my 3000 board but doesn't look to be on the higher end boards. No idea if CPU speed is set via those switches and\or a resistor network or can be auto detected.

I'll probably end up grabbing a newer board since the PSUs are at least the same. The mountings all look like they'll line up as well.


Return to “HP/DEC/Compaq”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests