General DEC3000 thread

HP/DEC/Compaq workstations/servers and operating systems (HP-UX, Tru64, OpenVMS, NonStop, etc.)
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bifo
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General DEC3000 thread

Unread postby bifo » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:58 am

Rather than start a new thread every time I run into trouble, it's probably easiest and best to both consolidate/catalog every problem I have into one thread and not flood a fairly slow forum with endless short threads.

Current question I have is: how much trouble has anyone else had with an old workstation that requires a 512byte/sector CD drive with reading CDRs burned on modern machines? I'm not finding any real info about burning 512byte disks versus standard 2048byte disks and I've now gone through two compatible CD drives testing all of these CDRs. In fact, the first drive I'd been trying to use was completely fine with my now-dead vaxstation 3100/38, a notoriously finicky machine, and it was able to read enough of a cd to netboot and install openbsd on a drive as proof that the machine is in working order.

The newer drive is a Toshiba XM-5701B from an SGI O2, which was also rebranded as an RRD46, which should also work fine, but it won't mount any OpenVMS cd I've burned, and while it will apparently mount the Tru64 cds I've burned, it won't load osfboot.

Digital Unix error:
Error reading in root dir
can't open osf_boot

?05 HLT INSTR
PC= 00000000.20000030 PSL= 00000000.00001F00

OpenVMS error:
%APB-F-MOUNT, failed to mount volume

?05 HLT INSTR
PC= 00000000.20003CC4 PSL= 00000000.00001F00

Anyone know whether one needs to burn discs at 512bytes/sector on early alphas, or for that matter, on any other systems? All I've found is a site or two that talks about needing something along those lines for early sparcstations.

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bifo
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Re: General DEC3000 thread

Unread postby bifo » Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:26 am

It's also probably worth mentioning that I updated my particular DEC 3000/400 to the final firmware update successfully about two months ago using the first drive (the one used for OpenBSD, a Pioneer) so it should have no problem booting the most recent versions of VMS, as that was a known issue with the earlier firmware versions.

robespierre
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Re: General DEC3000 thread

Unread postby robespierre » Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:39 am

There is no such thing as a "512 byte disc". All CDROMs have a standard format. The only variance is the SCSI mode parameters that the drive reports to the host (whether blocks are 512 or 2048 bytes and how many blocks are in the disc). That was needed because early workstations' PROMs were only designed to handle 512 byte blocks. On the Toshiba drives, there are 2 solder pads in the back that control the block size.

Yellow Book Mode 1 CDROMs have 2048 data bytes per sector, and this is required no matter what the host sees. cdrtools (mkisofs, mkhybrid, cdrecord, etc) are probably the programs you want for burning discs. In order for the discs to be bootable, they need to have the correct UFS disklabel, in addition to the Rock Ridge ISO9660 data (in other words be hybrid discs). How to create such images is complicated.
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bifo
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Re: General DEC3000 thread

Unread postby bifo » Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:42 am

robespierre wrote:There is no such thing as a "512 byte disc". All CDROMs have a standard format. The only variance is the SCSI mode parameters that the drive reports to the host (whether blocks are 512 or 2048 bytes and how many blocks are in the disc). That was needed because early workstations' PROMs were only designed to handle 512 byte blocks. On the Toshiba drives, there are 2 solder pads in the back that control the block size.

Yellow Book Mode 1 CDROMs have 2048 data bytes per sector, and this is required no matter what the host sees. cdrtools (mkisofs, mkhybrid, cdrecord, etc) are probably the programs you want for burning discs. In order for the discs to be bootable, they need to have the correct UFS disklabel, in addition to the Rock Ridge ISO9660 data (in other words be hybrid discs). How to create such images is complicated.


That explains a few things, as does the fact that the system will now boot from a burned AXP VMS 7.0 iso from the old pioneer-124x cd drive, so apparently the issue i've been butting heads with is that i have no reliable isos. Tru64 5.0 won't even boot on the system, it's too old apparently. Digital Unix 4 boots, but this is where I run into the present problem: SRM shows that the drives that I plug in to the adapters, but the VMS installer considers them offline, and the DUNIX installer failed inexplicably. Meanwhile, the OpenBSD drive boots perfectly fine. At the moment I'm attempting to install VMS onto the old 1gb scsi drive that worked fine for my 3100/38, and it's failed three times so far, but i guess that's just a matter of a new/old machine frankly. 7.0 is pretty ancient, but inexplicably, none of the images the hobbyist program have provided work? No idea.

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bifo
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Re: General DEC3000 thread

Unread postby bifo » Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:09 am

The OpenVMS system is now executing the site-specific startup commands.

%%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 29-DEC-2016 08:58:01.07 %%%%%%%%%%%
Message from user AUDIT$SERVER on VAAXP
Security alarm (SECURITY) and security audit (SECURITY) on VAAXP, system id: 434
28
Auditable event: Audit server starting up
Event time: 29-DEC-2016 08:58:00.33
PID: 00000083
Username: SYSTEM

%SET-I-INTSET, login interactive limit = 64, current interactive value = 0
SYSTEM job terminated at 29-DEC-2016 08:58:19.30

Accounting information:
Buffered I/O count: 2025 Peak working set size: 3696
Direct I/O count: 973 Peak virtual size: 171264
Page faults: 1305 Mounted volumes: 0
Charged CPU time: 0 00:00:07.09 Elapsed time: 0 00:00:52.59

i have no idea what this is, anyone seen this before? those numbers dont matfch anything i've put in. It may be that I didnt put in any licenses, but it should still let me log in and run a script in order for me to attach all the licenses. This was VMS off the old SCSI drive, I'm now attempting an install on the newer 10k drive with Digital Unix 4A. Which senses the drive, unlike VMS, inexplicably.

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bifo
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Re: General DEC3000 thread

Unread postby bifo » Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:42 am

ok finally got a full DUnix4 install on and working, now i just have to figure out the initial setup that DUnix expects, and it appears to be utterly miserable. does anyone have any good recommendations for books or manuals to use to deal with DUnix? I've already ordered a copy of the sysadmin guide, hopefully something in the good old bitsavers archive I haven't found is the right one.

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TruHobbyist
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Re: General DEC3000 thread

Unread postby TruHobbyist » Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:35 am

Any documentation for Digital Unix from at least 1996 (4.0A, 4.0B) is what you are looking for:

https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/references/unix/digital/

As long as you don't want to write drivers (requires an extra CD with tools, sources and documentation) the above doc library contains everything you could ever need.

robespierre
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Re: General DEC3000 thread

Unread postby robespierre » Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:15 pm

If it helps clarify the situation any, I checked the XM4101B that I use in my 3000/600. It has both jumpers connected: this is the standard setting, for 2048 byte blocks (although I believe the drive also respects MODE SELECT block size setting). It works fine booting from Digital Unix 4.0D (I'll try OpenVMS sometime soon).

https://www.sun3arc.org/FAQ/cdrom/tosh3401.htm
http://www.pimpworks.org/sun/suncds.html
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