Alphaserver DS15

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johnnym
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Re: Alphaserver DS15

Unread postby johnnym » Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:56 pm

zahal wrote:
johnnym wrote:Does a GigE NIC make a difference for your VNC connection?


Yes it does! A lot more fluid. The Tigon3 card eventually started working.

Great, will try that, too, with a Tigon II based NIC with SGI branding! I recently found out that those Tigon NICs use embedded R4K CPUs (see for example FreeBSD's ti(4) manpage or the header of the Tigon III driver in NetBSD). So the perfect choice for SGI/MIPS enthusiasts, even if "slower" than an Intel NIC. ;)

Image

Har, har, har...

zahal wrote:
johnnym wrote:Any luck with the v4.x.x kernels?
[...]

I installed a 4.x.x kernel but it bombed during startup. I ended up downloading the 4.8.15 source code and compiling the kernel for the Titan motherboard. It's been over a decade since I last compiled a kernel! It has been working fine with 4.8.15 now.

Yes, early 2016 on the Debian Alpha mailing list they also mentioned that a self-compiled kernel v4.x.x works fine on an SX164. But compilation of a Debian kernel with - non-working - GENERIC config took the guy that created the thread 33 (!) hours. I assume I'd need a similar time on my PWS 500au, even when changing config options, arrghh :? . Maybe I can use QEMU and the eight cores of my xw9400 to speed things up. At least this method worked well when compiling a Debian 7 kernel for my O2 with the help of an eight core Clovertown machine more than a year ago.

zahal wrote:I'll try Gentoo again, since the Stage 3 archives for Alpha have been updated 3 times since I tried to install it. Hopefully the compiler has been updated in order to generate code optimized for newer Alpha processors.

Gentoo also sounds interesting, would you mind posting if you're successful with it?
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Re: Alphaserver DS15

Unread postby johnnym » Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:40 am

@zahal:

Just an update to this thread: As per http://forums.nekochan.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16730589&p=7397125#p7397125 it looks like the current SMP kernel (v4.8.x) of Debian Linux for Alpha (unstable) works on my recently acquired AlphaServer DS20E out of the box. Maybe the SMP kernel might also work for your newer Alphaserver DS15. If yes this would save a lot of time, because you could then use the pre-compiled Debian Linux kernel instead of a self-compiled one.
:Indy: :O2: :Octane: :Octane2: :O200: = :O200: - :O200: = :O200: (O200 cluster w/2 GIGAchannel cabinets)
[ ( hp ) ] 712/80 c3000 (dead) :hpserv: (J5600) c3700 c3750 c8000 rp2470 :rx2600: (rx2620) rx4640
| d | i | g | i | t | a | l | AXPpci33 AlphaStation 200 AlphaStation 255 PWS 500au AlphaServer DS20E AlphaServer DS25
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bifo
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Re: Alphaserver DS15

Unread postby bifo » Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:12 pm

I just picked up a DS10L about a month ago and after some trial and error with various IDE optical drives, I'm running VMS 8.4 with the updates with a generic radeon 7500 PCI card. In researching which would be the best card for the system, I found that the 7000 will not work in an alpha, only in an itanium system. Any 7500 pci should come up as automatically recognized and with the most recent version of VMS it works automatically after installation. I'm currently posting this from CSWB (seamonkey) on the system itself.

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Re: Alphaserver DS15

Unread postby johnnym » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:19 pm

bifo wrote:I just picked up a DS10L about a month ago and after some trial and error with various IDE optical drives [...]

Nice little machine! What CPU do you have?

Hey, did you already know this article (PDF) about its creation/development? Makes a nice story. :)
:Indy: :O2: :Octane: :Octane2: :O200: = :O200: - :O200: = :O200: (O200 cluster w/2 GIGAchannel cabinets)
[ ( hp ) ] 712/80 c3000 (dead) :hpserv: (J5600) c3700 c3750 c8000 rp2470 :rx2600: (rx2620) rx4640
| d | i | g | i | t | a | l | AXPpci33 AlphaStation 200 AlphaStation 255 PWS 500au AlphaServer DS20E AlphaServer DS25
C O B A L T Qube 2 Qube 3 RaQ RaQ 2 RaQ 4r RaQ XTR

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Re: Alphaserver DS15

Unread postby bifo » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:13 pm

johnnym wrote:
bifo wrote:I just picked up a DS10L about a month ago and after some trial and error with various IDE optical drives [...]

Nice little machine! What CPU do you have?

Hey, did you already know this article (PDF) about its creation/development? Makes a nice story. :)

Its the EV67 617mhz, the seller didn't describe it correctly so it was a nice surprise when it arrived, except it also only had 512mb ram instead of 1gb.

That is a good story, the fact that they weren't running more projects along those lines is almost certainly one of the reasons they got left behind in the server market.

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zahal
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Re: Alphaserver DS15

Unread postby zahal » Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:04 pm

After failing to get Xorg working, I started looking at the alpha linux mailing lists. Compiled the radeon and amdgpu drivers into the kernel (not as modules) and got X working with a PCI Radeon 7000 64MB. But the HD3450 would not work. Neither would a HD5430 that I just got a few days ago. Then, read some more and finally...the DS15 is working with a Radeon HD5430!

hwinfo-alpha-hd5430.png



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:O2: 400MHz R12k - :320: Dual 600MHz PIII - HP Alphaserver DS15 - Digital DECstation5000/133 - Dell T3500 - Apple G4 Cube dual 500MHz/GF6200 - Newton Messagepad 2100 - Apple PowerBook 2400c/G3@240 - Apple PowerMacintosh 6100/66 - Apple PowerMacintosh 6500/G3@500MHz - Apple Workgroup Server 9150/120 G3@280 - Apple Macintosh IIfx - Apple Macintosh LC475 (OC Full 040 33MHz) - Apple Macintosh Color Classic (Full 040 40Mhz Mystic upgrade) - Sun Cobalt Cube 3 - EBOX 3300A-JSK - Tadpole RDI UltraBook IIi - Compaq Armada 4120 - Digital HiNote Ultra II - HP OmniBook 425 - HP 200LX - Crossbeam C12

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Re: Alphaserver DS15

Unread postby urbancamo » Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:02 am

Congratulations!
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Re: Alphaserver DS15

Unread postby bifo » Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:33 pm

Haha congrats on getting it working but doesnt the 5430 have 1GB onboard ram? i.e. your graphics card has as much ram as the computer that's using it

I've gotten my DS10L running with 1.5GB ram, but I have to have the lid up due to the low profile case not providing enough space to have ram directly inserted into the motherboard. Next: get a full DS10 riser card and install an old Ensoniq soundcard and maybe a SCSI card, because i have it sitting around.

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Re: Alphaserver DS15

Unread postby zahal » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:50 am

bifo wrote:Haha congrats on getting it working but doesnt the 5430 have 1GB onboard ram? i.e. your graphics card has as much ram as the computer that's using it

I've gotten my DS10L running with 1.5GB ram, but I have to have the lid up due to the low profile case not providing enough space to have ram directly inserted into the motherboard. Next: get a full DS10 riser card and install an old Ensoniq soundcard and maybe a SCSI card, because i have it sitting around.


Thanks! It's good to be able to use the DS15. Iceweasel is quite usable for a 1GHz box with 1GB RAM, yet still stuck at version 29.
The card is actually a PowerColor HD5450. inxi says it's a 5430, and hwinfo says it's a HIS 5450. The card has 512MB DDR2. Running the 1600x1200 display with compton enabled uses around 120MB of the card's memory (according to radeontop). I compiled glmark2 and got an overall score of 276 (my 1GB HD4870 on a X5680 Debian box gives me around 1500). The Radeon 7x00 series probably can't even handle glmark2. VLC runs youtube videos at 1080p smoothly (youtube on iceweasel on the other hand is impossible). I'll probably get a LT2452P in order to increase screen to 1920x1200 ;)

Congrats on the 1.5GB on your DS10L. How did you achieve that? I do need more RAM for the DS15.
Make sure your PCI cards are properly keyed for your DS10L slots.
Sitting in a room.....thinkin' shit up. :evil:

:O2: 400MHz R12k - :320: Dual 600MHz PIII - HP Alphaserver DS15 - Digital DECstation5000/133 - Dell T3500 - Apple G4 Cube dual 500MHz/GF6200 - Newton Messagepad 2100 - Apple PowerBook 2400c/G3@240 - Apple PowerMacintosh 6100/66 - Apple PowerMacintosh 6500/G3@500MHz - Apple Workgroup Server 9150/120 G3@280 - Apple Macintosh IIfx - Apple Macintosh LC475 (OC Full 040 33MHz) - Apple Macintosh Color Classic (Full 040 40Mhz Mystic upgrade) - Sun Cobalt Cube 3 - EBOX 3300A-JSK - Tadpole RDI UltraBook IIi - Compaq Armada 4120 - Digital HiNote Ultra II - HP OmniBook 425 - HP 200LX - Crossbeam C12

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Re: Alphaserver DS15

Unread postby bifo » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:53 pm

zahal wrote:
bifo wrote:Haha congrats on getting it working but doesnt the 5430 have 1GB onboard ram? i.e. your graphics card has as much ram as the computer that's using it

I've gotten my DS10L running with 1.5GB ram, but I have to have the lid up due to the low profile case not providing enough space to have ram directly inserted into the motherboard. Next: get a full DS10 riser card and install an old Ensoniq soundcard and maybe a SCSI card, because i have it sitting around.


Thanks! It's good to be able to use the DS15. Iceweasel is quite usable for a 1GHz box with 1GB RAM, yet still stuck at version 29.
The card is actually a PowerColor HD5450. inxi says it's a 5430, and hwinfo says it's a HIS 5450. The card has 512MB DDR2. Running the 1600x1200 display with compton enabled uses around 120MB of the card's memory (according to radeontop). I compiled glmark2 and got an overall score of 276 (my 1GB HD4870 on a X5680 Debian box gives me around 1500). The Radeon 7x00 series probably can't even handle glmark2. VLC runs youtube videos at 1080p smoothly (youtube on iceweasel on the other hand is impossible). I'll probably get a LT2452P in order to increase screen to 1920x1200 ;)

Congrats on the 1.5GB on your DS10L. How did you achieve that? I do need more RAM for the DS15.
Make sure your PCI cards are properly keyed for your DS10L slots.


the DS10L motherboard is actually exactly the same motherboard used in the full-size DS10, so it has 4 slots for RAM in matched pairs. When the hood is down, they use a sort of L-adapter so the actual sticks are parallel to the motherboard rather than upright because the case isn't tall enough to handle the height of the sticks. They used to sell the DS10L with a max of 1GB because, I expect, they wanted people to spend more on a full DS10 if they wanted a full 2GB, but since the motherboard is the same and the updated firmware already thinks it's an XP900 since I installed the radeon, its fully capable of taking the same amount of ram as the DS10 as far as I can tell. 1.5GB works fine so far.

The PCI riser card from the DS10 should also fit as well, since, again, same motherboard, the DS10L just comes with a shortened single slot riser. The Compaq AudioPCI 5200 should be compatible (VMS and Tru64 should both have audio drivers for the Ensoniq ES1373 chip, Linux/BSD should also be able to handle a 20 year old card fine), and also incredibly cheap. I'm putting that off for a bit so I can try to figure out some other issues with VMS (MMS issues) and Tru64 (extremely limited native partitioning expects a 4.3GB drive) and try to compile Gentoo again.

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bifo
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Re: Alphaserver DS15

Unread postby bifo » Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:29 am

Well, after spending most of the last week banging my head against the gentoo wall, where between the horribly unclear install guide and the apparent inability for the thing to both format a simple working file system AND build a kernel without inexplicably ****ting the bed, I'm going to do a fresh tru64 install and bang my head against that instead. I did want to point out though that if anyone needs a testbed for a DS10/20/ES40 that the AlphaVM-Free emulator works a treat and I may just try to do installs on the VM in the future and then DD the disk image over to the IDE drives that the DS10 takes.

There are some questionable differences in hardware on the startup (namely the SCSI-IDE bridge interface isn't one I recognize, but that should be handled in the SRM I think), but it will run a 616mhz DS10 with 512MB ram out of the box, which is exactly the same as my DS10L when I first started working on it. The free version won't let you bump the RAM up but 512MB is plenty.

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Re: Alphaserver DS15

Unread postby Krokodil » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:11 pm

bifo wrote:Well, after spending most of the last week banging my head against the gentoo wall, where between the horribly unclear install guide and the apparent inability for the thing to both format a simple working file system AND build a kernel without inexplicably ****ting the bed, I'm going to do a fresh tru64 install and bang my head against that instead. I did want to point out though that if anyone needs a testbed for a DS10/20/ES40 that the AlphaVM-Free emulator works a treat and I may just try to do installs on the VM in the future and then DD the disk image over to the IDE drives that the DS10 takes.

There are some questionable differences in hardware on the startup (namely the SCSI-IDE bridge interface isn't one I recognize, but that should be handled in the SRM I think), but it will run a 616mhz DS10 with 512MB ram out of the box, which is exactly the same as my DS10L when I first started working on it. The free version won't let you bump the RAM up but 512MB is plenty.


I know the pain. It was 10 years ago I went through the same nightmare on a Sun Ultra 5. Never got it working right.
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zahal
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Re: Alphaserver DS15

Unread postby zahal » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:56 pm

Video card update:
The Radeon HD5450 works well in the DS15...*but* we always strive for a better option if possible.
Enter the Radeon HD7350, which is is also a CEDAR card. Specs are quite similar to the HD5450 (rebadge is common in the GPU world) but it uses GDDR3 and supports OpenGL 4. Installing in the DS15 is just a drop in replacement as the compiled kernel driver used is the same as the HD5450.
GLMARK2 scores are much better with the HD7350.

So where can we go from here? There seem to be a couple interesting NVIDIA PCI cards, the 9400GT with 1GB RAM, and the GT 610 with either 512MB or 1GB. I managed to source a GT 610 with -hopefully- 1GB RAM (more on this later).
Once the HD7350 had been removed ant the GT 610 installed, the DS15 would only boot to text login (I had only compiled the AMD driver for the specific card(s) I had). I compiled the latest kernel (4.13.11) with nouveau drivers enabled and upon reboot I got a kernel panic. Compiled 4.13.11 again with only AMD and got back to text login.
Xorg.0.log finds the card but no driver:

Code: Select all

[   244.780] (--) PCI:*(2:2:0:0) 10de:104a:0000:0000 rev 161, Mem @ 0x401000000/16777216, 0x440000000/134217728, 0x448000000/33554432, I/O @ 0x400001000/128, BIOS @ 0x????????/524288


hwinfo also finds the card:

Code: Select all

DS15:~> /usr/sbin/hwinfo --gfxcard
10: PCI 20200.0: 0300 VGA compatible controller (VGA)           
  [Created at pci.378]
  Unique ID: 3KLV.EIl38wRPLGE
  Parent ID: wEUe.2_Jx267KDMD
  SysFS ID: /devices/pci0002:01/0002:01:07.0/0002:02:00.0
  SysFS BusID: 0002:02:00.0
  Hardware Class: graphics card
  Model: "NVIDIA GF119 [GeForce GT 610]"
  Vendor: pci 0x10de "NVIDIA Corporation"
  Device: pci 0x104a "GF119 [GeForce GT 610]"
  Revision: 0xa1
  Memory Range: 0x401000000-0x401ffffff (rw,non-prefetchable)
  Memory Range: 0x440000000-0x447ffffff (ro,non-prefetchable)
  Memory Range: 0x448000000-0x449ffffff (ro,non-prefetchable)
  I/O Ports: 0x400001000-0x40000107f (rw)
  Memory Range: 0x402000000-0x40207ffff (ro,non-prefetchable,disabled)
  IRQ: 56 (no events)
  Module Alias: "pci:v000010DEd0000104Asv00000000sd00000000bc03sc00i00"
  Config Status: cfg=new, avail=yes, need=no, active=unknown
  Attached to: #11 (PCI bridge)

Primary display adapter: #10



I tried to install the required nvidia software (https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-install- ... etch-linux) but none of those seem to be available for alpha.
I need to figure out what I'm doing wrong with the nvidia driver. In theory the GT 610 might be faster according to GPUZOO, but it all comes down to how good of bad the opensource drivers are, since the binary drivers are only available on x86 and ARM. Maybe the HD7350 is the best card the DS15 can have....for now.
Sitting in a room.....thinkin' shit up. :evil:

:O2: 400MHz R12k - :320: Dual 600MHz PIII - HP Alphaserver DS15 - Digital DECstation5000/133 - Dell T3500 - Apple G4 Cube dual 500MHz/GF6200 - Newton Messagepad 2100 - Apple PowerBook 2400c/G3@240 - Apple PowerMacintosh 6100/66 - Apple PowerMacintosh 6500/G3@500MHz - Apple Workgroup Server 9150/120 G3@280 - Apple Macintosh IIfx - Apple Macintosh LC475 (OC Full 040 33MHz) - Apple Macintosh Color Classic (Full 040 40Mhz Mystic upgrade) - Sun Cobalt Cube 3 - EBOX 3300A-JSK - Tadpole RDI UltraBook IIi - Compaq Armada 4120 - Digital HiNote Ultra II - HP OmniBook 425 - HP 200LX - Crossbeam C12

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Re: Alphaserver DS15

Unread postby Shiunbird » Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:11 am

zahal wrote:After failing to get Xorg working, I started looking at the alpha linux mailing lists. Compiled the radeon and amdgpu drivers into the kernel (not as modules) and got X working with a PCI Radeon 7000 64MB.


Question:
How is the window resize performance with the PCI Radeon 7000?
I have the same card installed into my IntelliStation 285 and the window resize performance is awful (radeon drivers). Much much slower than using fbdev.
I think it's because the card does not support non-power-of-two texture sizes, but even disabling the desktop composer didn't improve things.

I guess I could just revert to using wireframe window resize, but didn't want to go that way.
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zahal
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Re: Alphaserver DS15

Unread postby zahal » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:43 am

Shiunbird wrote:Question:
How is the window resize performance with the PCI Radeon 7000?
I have the same card installed into my IntelliStation 285 and the window resize performance is awful (radeon drivers). Much much slower than using fbdev.
I think it's because the card does not support non-power-of-two texture sizes, but even disabling the desktop composer didn't improve things.

I guess I could just revert to using wireframe window resize, but didn't want to go that way.


I did not do any extensive test with the Radeon 7000 as I then tried the HD3450 -> HD5450 -> HD7350 cards.
GLMARK2 with the HD7350 is 443 (up from 276 with the HD5450). I have again installed the HD7350 on the DS15 until I figure out how to get modern NVIDIA cards working on alpha.
Sitting in a room.....thinkin' shit up. :evil:

:O2: 400MHz R12k - :320: Dual 600MHz PIII - HP Alphaserver DS15 - Digital DECstation5000/133 - Dell T3500 - Apple G4 Cube dual 500MHz/GF6200 - Newton Messagepad 2100 - Apple PowerBook 2400c/G3@240 - Apple PowerMacintosh 6100/66 - Apple PowerMacintosh 6500/G3@500MHz - Apple Workgroup Server 9150/120 G3@280 - Apple Macintosh IIfx - Apple Macintosh LC475 (OC Full 040 33MHz) - Apple Macintosh Color Classic (Full 040 40Mhz Mystic upgrade) - Sun Cobalt Cube 3 - EBOX 3300A-JSK - Tadpole RDI UltraBook IIi - Compaq Armada 4120 - Digital HiNote Ultra II - HP OmniBook 425 - HP 200LX - Crossbeam C12


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