How easy is it to get HP-UX going for hobby purposes?

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commodorejohn
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How easy is it to get HP-UX going for hobby purposes?

Unread postby commodorejohn » Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:25 pm

Out of idle curiosity, I'm looking at picking up a modest PA-RISC system (a 712/100) to play around with, but before I go spending good money on one of these things, I'm curious what the software situation is like. It looks like two of the BSDs do have more-or-less working ports, and it can run NeXTSTEP, which I've been curious to play around with for a while now, but it sounds like the all-around best option is probably HP-UX 10.20 (I think it can technically run 11.whatever, but it looks like the maximum RAM for the machine is around the minimum recommended RAM for 11, so that's probably not a great idea.) I know where to get media for HP-UX, but I have absolutely no idea what the hobbyist experience is like. Do you have to do any finagling with licenses? Do they have any kind of hobby program like the OpenVMS branch of HP does? Is it not an unmanageable pain in the ass to get a basic development environment going? I'm curious to hear from people who've played around with it, as it seems to be the commercial Unix you hear just about the least about this side of AIX.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/SH-09/HS-80/MT-32/D-50, Yamaha DX7-II/V50/TX7/TG33/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini/ARP Odyssey/DW-8000/M1, Ensoniq SQ-80, E-mu Emax HD/Proteus-2, Casio CZ-5000, Moog Satellite, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600

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Re: How easy is it to get HP-UX going for hobby purposes?

Unread postby robespierre » Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:17 pm

You mentioned BSD first: one of the earliest desktop BSD versions was called HPBSD and was used on /400s and /700s at colleges that had been granted Unix licenses. It was very well liked, but was based on the earlier 4.3BSD codebase that contained AT&T code, and is very likely lost to history.
You can legally acquire HP-UX 10.20 media and install it on a 712, as it was the current release at the time the workstation was originally purchased. I don't have one, but from my understanding no license keys are required (as they are with Digital Unix, for instance).
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Re: How easy is it to get HP-UX going for hobby purposes?

Unread postby urbancamo » Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:56 pm

I run 11 on IA64 - no licensing issues and it is well supported by freeware.
Quite nice really. Not quite as nice as Digital Unix of course :D

Oh, and PA/RISC binary emulation is built in, so old code 'just works'.
Image, VAXstation 4000/90 x2, VAXstation 4000/VLC x2, AlphaServer 1000A, DEC AXP 3000/600 (desktop), DEC AXP 3000/600 x2 (rackmount), DEC AXP 3000/800 (rackmount), AlphaServer 300 4/266, Sun Ultra 5, LA75, PP404, Juki 6100, Brother HR10

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Re: How easy is it to get HP-UX going for hobby purposes?

Unread postby ClassicHasClass » Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:45 pm

Yes, no license keys. I have 11i media and it "just works." (C8000.)

I have sort of a love-hate relationship with HP/sUX but my first job was on a K250, so I have a fondness for PA-RISC.
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commodorejohn
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Re: How easy is it to get HP-UX going for hobby purposes?

Unread postby commodorejohn » Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:52 pm

Yeah, I've heard mixed opinions on it, but I figure I might as well give it a shot, having got the system on the cheap. Though I did have to shell out an extra $40 for a hard drive - seems to be getting damn near impossible to find 50-pin SCSI drives these days, outside of specialty warehouses like MemoryTen...
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/SH-09/HS-80/MT-32/D-50, Yamaha DX7-II/V50/TX7/TG33/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini/ARP Odyssey/DW-8000/M1, Ensoniq SQ-80, E-mu Emax HD/Proteus-2, Casio CZ-5000, Moog Satellite, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600

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Re: How easy is it to get HP-UX going for hobby purposes?

Unread postby urbancamo » Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:40 am

You can get converters for 68 pin or 80 pin drives. The manufacturers are supposed to maintain backwards compatibility but it does depend a lot on the original purpose for the drives. I can make some recommendations.

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Re: How easy is it to get HP-UX going for hobby purposes?

Unread postby commodorejohn » Fri Apr 22, 2016 7:19 am

Yeah, there's that, though I've had mixed experiences with them (the first one I bought for my VAXStation didn't work at all, and I had to pick up a different one to get it to work.) Really I should probably look into the SCSI-to-Flash solutions I've been hearing about, at least for my Emax if not for my computers...
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/SH-09/HS-80/MT-32/D-50, Yamaha DX7-II/V50/TX7/TG33/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini/ARP Odyssey/DW-8000/M1, Ensoniq SQ-80, E-mu Emax HD/Proteus-2, Casio CZ-5000, Moog Satellite, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600

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Re: How easy is it to get HP-UX going for hobby purposes?

Unread postby urbancamo » Fri Apr 22, 2016 7:24 am

Yeah, I bought a couple of SCSI2SD cards that run OpenVMS 7.3 fine on a VS4000/90 & VLC.
I had trouble bringing up VAX/VMS 5.5, which I reported to the dev, he did make some changes but I've not tried it recently.

http://www.codesrc.com/mediawiki/index. ... le=SCSI2SD

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Image, VAXstation 4000/90 x2, VAXstation 4000/VLC x2, AlphaServer 1000A, DEC AXP 3000/600 (desktop), DEC AXP 3000/600 x2 (rackmount), DEC AXP 3000/800 (rackmount), AlphaServer 300 4/266, Sun Ultra 5, LA75, PP404, Juki 6100, Brother HR10

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Re: How easy is it to get HP-UX going for hobby purposes?

Unread postby miod » Sat Apr 23, 2016 4:37 am

commodorejohn wrote:Yeah, there's that, though I've had mixed experiences with them (the first one I bought for my VAXStation didn't work at all, and I had to pick up a different one to get it to work.)

Some VAXstation PROM usually gets confused by some SCSI commands taking too little time to proceed, and their answer comes before the PROM is actually ready to handle it. It is easier to actually use a mechanical disk to boot off, and then have the operating system send a "spin down" command to it and use the SCSI2SD or other silent media from then on.
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Re: How easy is it to get HP-UX going for hobby purposes?

Unread postby commodorejohn » Sat Apr 23, 2016 8:29 am

Well, it didn't work on my PC SCSI controller, either...
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/SH-09/HS-80/MT-32/D-50, Yamaha DX7-II/V50/TX7/TG33/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini/ARP Odyssey/DW-8000/M1, Ensoniq SQ-80, E-mu Emax HD/Proteus-2, Casio CZ-5000, Moog Satellite, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600

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Re: How easy is it to get HP-UX going for hobby purposes?

Unread postby kramlq » Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:00 pm

HP 712/100 is a nice machine. Low power, quiet, small size and good OS options.
It runs HP-UX 10.20 and 11.00 pretty well, and 11i v1 explicitly included it as a supported system until the December 2004 release (perhaps later versions still work but are untested). Even so, 11i v1 is probably going to push even a maxed out 712/100 to the limit.

Nextstep runs very nicely. Aside from the BSD''s, there is also Linux - I think I had Ubutnu and Debian on mine for a time.
If you want to try the more ancient/obscure/experimental and buggy, there is Utah Mach4/Lites, and maybe OSF mklinux HPPA boots.

With HP-UX, workstations are automatically licensed, you just need the media - my understanding was you can even borrow it from somebody else. Once you have the core system up and running, add-on products can be installed from the application disks - BUT these typically require a codeword for installation.

If you are really lucky you might find a HP-UX set with unencrypted application disks. These were generally used by HP support engineers, but a few have made it into the wild. It lets you install some interesting but very old stuff from the application disks without the codewords, like WABI for HPUX.

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Re: How easy is it to get HP-UX going for hobby purposes?

Unread postby commodorejohn » Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:07 pm

Yeah, we'll see how it goes with the installation, but if worst comes to worst there's always the alternative OSes. The computer's scheduled to be delivered tomorrow, as is the hard drive, so I should have a chance to play around with it a bit before I take off on a weekend road-trip.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/SH-09/HS-80/MT-32/D-50, Yamaha DX7-II/V50/TX7/TG33/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini/ARP Odyssey/DW-8000/M1, Ensoniq SQ-80, E-mu Emax HD/Proteus-2, Casio CZ-5000, Moog Satellite, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600

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Re: How easy is it to get HP-UX going for hobby purposes?

Unread postby SAQ » Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:03 pm

Base install is as noted unlicensed. Some layered products were licensed, such as OnlineJFS, but aren't needed for a base install.

HP-UX isn't very "wow", but it is solid, and SAM is a decent admin utility if you don't want to pull out your UNIX Rosetta Stone.
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Re: How easy is it to get HP-UX going for hobby purposes?

Unread postby foetz » Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:13 pm

SAQ wrote:it is solid, and SAM is a decent admin utility

indeed, in fact hpux has been my "second in command" if you will after irix. it does most things a little better than the others and only irix does some of these even better.
another big plus is vxfs. a very good and very fast filesystem assuming you're not using a really old hpux version.
adding to that is pa-risc. these cpus did very well and several models beat the crap out of pretty much all others at their time.
last but not least there's the freeware depot. that's easily the best of all freeware systems that have existed for whichever unix. they're still very active, build everything with the native compilers and still build almost everything for pa-risc, too.

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Re: How easy is it to get HP-UX going for hobby purposes?

Unread postby commodorejohn » Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:55 pm

Well, it got here in great shape today and powers right up...but the guy I bought the hard drive from sent me an 80-pin SCSI drive >=( So I won't have a chance to do any serious playing around with it until sometime next week...

While I'm waiting: these applications that require licensing, what kind of stuff are we talking here? Is it a deal where it's just advanced enterprise type stuff that you have to pay for, or will I need to go through shenanigans to get a development environment going?
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/SH-09/HS-80/MT-32/D-50, Yamaha DX7-II/V50/TX7/TG33/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini/ARP Odyssey/DW-8000/M1, Ensoniq SQ-80, E-mu Emax HD/Proteus-2, Casio CZ-5000, Moog Satellite, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600


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