VMS End of life

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sgi_mark
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VMS End of life

Unread postby sgi_mark » Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:55 am

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/10/openvms_death_notice/

A sad day indeed. Although not entirely unexpected... I wonder how many VMS customers will take HP up on their suggestion that they port to NSK or HP-UX ? And will those two platforms last much longer ?

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Re: VMS End of life

Unread postby ramq » Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:20 am

OMG.
That's some news indeed.

I have a customer (former employer) which relies quite heavily on OpenVMS. I guess they have to rewrite their plans now...
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hamei
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Re: VMS End of life

Unread postby hamei » Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:30 am

sgi_mark wrote: I wonder how many VMS customers will take HP up on their suggestion that they port to NSK or HP-UX ?

More to the point, how many customers will surround HP headquarters with burning torches, demanding Meg's head on a pike ?

You guys have got to quit letting these bastards pull this crap. The world will be intolerable if you keep allowing this kind of behavior.
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Re: VMS End of life

Unread postby SAQ » Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:17 am

hamei wrote:
sgi_mark wrote: I wonder how many VMS customers will take HP up on their suggestion that they port to NSK or HP-UX ?

More to the point, how many customers will surround HP headquarters with burning torches, demanding Meg's head on a pike ?

You guys have got to quit letting these bastards pull this crap. The world will be intolerable if you keep allowing this kind of behavior.


This seems to have been HP's standard acquisitions policy for a while now (at least since Apollo). Spend a lot of money buying a company, discontinue their products at the earliest possible time, then expect the customers to move to HP's stuff. You'd think by now they'd figure out that it doesn't work that way.

Guess this means they'll never patch the y31086 problem :(
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commodorejohn
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Re: VMS End of life

Unread postby commodorejohn » Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:58 am

Well, that gives us a good few years to crack the license format and steal the source code...

Bastards. Like we need to be moving closer to a world of indistinguishable Unix derivatives.
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Re: VMS End of life

Unread postby smj » Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:27 pm

The future of the Hobbyist Program concerns me even more, especially since they brought it back inside HP. It would be nice not to have to violate terms etc in order to get fresh PAKs and continue using these systems.
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Re: VMS End of life

Unread postby astouffer » Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:31 pm

hamei wrote:More to the point, how many customers will surround HP headquarters with burning torches, demanding Meg's head on a pike ?

You guys have got to quit letting these bastards pull this crap. The world will be intolerable if you keep allowing this kind of behavior.


How many production OpenVMS boxes are really out there right now?

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PymbleSoftware
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Re: VMS End of life

Unread postby PymbleSoftware » Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:54 pm

astouffer wrote:
hamei wrote:More to the point, how many customers will surround HP headquarters with burning torches, demanding Meg's head on a pike ?

You guys have got to quit letting these bastards pull this crap. The world will be intolerable if you keep allowing this kind of behavior.


How many production OpenVMS boxes are really out there right now?


The Australian Stock exchange is a heavy user as are some banks I've come across in Australia and NZ.

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Re: VMS End of life

Unread postby hamei » Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:08 pm

PymbleSoftware wrote:The Australian Stock exchange is a heavy user as are some banks I've come across in Australia and NZ.

You best let them know they're going to have to migrate. Carly's payout is coming up soon and HP needs the cash. What with it being a high-tech service economy now and HP having to outsource all the development and jobs to India on account of costs and the fine management brought to you by Carly, Mark, and Meg, your little third-world stock exchange is just gonna have to suck up.

What, you thought HP's word was worth something ? ha ha ha, you fools !

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Re: VMS End of life

Unread postby ClassicHasClass » Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:11 pm

Maybe they'll make OpenVMS, you know, "open."

Ha! I thought that was a good joke too.
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Re: VMS End of life

Unread postby SAQ » Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:00 am

commodorejohn wrote: Like we need to be moving closer to a world of indistinguishable Unix derivatives.

[/quote]

They're cheap.

Interesting juxtaposition: the buzz in the '80s was that we needed to have the UNIX derivatives more indistinguishable. The computer companies can't win, can they (not that they even tried, really - the "standardization" was mostly window-dressing, and the eventual move to Linux was because it was cheap).
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Re: VMS End of life

Unread postby jwp » Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:03 am

commodorejohn wrote:Well, that gives us a good few years to crack the license format and steal the source code...

Bastards. Like we need to be moving closer to a world of indistinguishable Unix derivatives.

I'm surprised that VMS wasn't discontinued earlier. HP never marketed it, as though it were just a legacy product, and it's been that way for many years now. Eventually HP-UX will also be discontinued, and they are apparently adding "high-availability" code into Linux to ease the transition. I guess Solaris will also probably be discontinued (although Oracle stays quiet about that subject), and then IBM will be the only major Unix vendor left.

Moves like this show the weakness and vulnerability that companies open themselves up to when they rely on proprietary software that can be discontinued at any time. The situation is the same with IRIX -- people can still find the media, but the company basically abandoned it, and it's unlikely to go open source in the future. It's mostly of interest as a legacy platform used by hobbyists, not a viable operating system for the future (which is unfortunate).

If HP wanted to succeed with VMS, they should have open sourced it and let the community take over the bulk of new development. My guess, though, is that they just wanted to get rid of the engineers and infrastructure costs associated with VMS. HP has been slowly becoming another Dell, and everything is probably made by Foxconn anyhow. Eventually even the management will be "outsourced" when the Chinese finally figure out that these companies are just "management shells" rather than manufacturers, and decide that they can do that part too.

Honestly, though, I don't mind the "world of indistinguishable Unix derivatives." Unix is a fine platform with many excellent qualities. I would much rather have standard open source Unix systems than a world beholden to Microsoft, or another proliferation of commercial Unix (with each system costing a small fortune).
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Re: VMS End of life

Unread postby PymbleSoftware » Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:01 am

I've seen part of the source code to Ultrix and it was like clean and elegant well formatted poetry.
I don't recall ever seeing the source code VMS but I bet it is the same.
I've seen the source code to Linux and other open source projects and well.. enough said.

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hamei
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Re: VMS End of life

Unread postby hamei » Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:11 am

jwp wrote:Moves like this show the weakness and vulnerability that companies open themselves up to when they rely on proprietary software that can be discontinued at any time.

"Proprietary" software has been discontinued a hell of a lot less and suppoorted a hell of a lot better than that open sores crap. At least if you get cheated by HP you know whom to go shoot. gtk1 gtk2 gtk3 qt wxwidgets soap ajax the foaming cleanser compiz dickwhizz, you name it, Linux has run through it. Support ? what a crock. It never worked right in the first place but we gots to release more ! faster ! release early release often, just like when you eat Messican food and have a lot of gas. Bugs ? hell, maybe someone else will catch them, not our biz mon ! We've got 80% market share, we must be doiing something right !

Barf.

bluecode wrote:Bottom line is today cheap is what matters.

People are stupid. Profit ! profit profit profit !! Business is all about profit !!

Yeah right. Then when the business goes tits-up it's the effing taxpayers who pay, while the ceo waltzes off with a few billion.

This stupid philosophy is destroying the foundations of the modern world.
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Re: VMS End of life

Unread postby smj » Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:24 am

jwp wrote:If HP wanted to succeed with VMS, they should have open sourced it and let the community take over the bulk of new development.

Not to bash community efforts, but somebody pays for the heavy lifting of innovation. University or government projects. All the scaled up multiprocessor stuff that SGI paid for, XFS, JFS, yadda yadda. DEC spent good money supporting Linux on the Alpha, and porting to a 64 bit platform under that support really helped mature the kernel. Go ask John "Maddog" Hall about that.

No, HP's lack of vision and investment avoided success with VMS - perhaps with reason, based on customers and market trends, and perhaps not. But slashing your R&D budget below industry norms across the board is a more likely culprit...
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