Smallest HPUX/OpenVMS System Ever?

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SAQ
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Re: Smallest HPUX/OpenVMS System Ever?

Unread postby SAQ » Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:06 am

mia wrote:What about a nice vaxstation 4000?


Depends what the OP is going to use it for. The VLC is a nice mini-pizzabox size, and provided that 5VUPS is enough it works well. 4000/60 and 4000/9x are nice machines, but if the OP wants to learn VMS all VAXes are stuck at 7.3, and while VMS is a mature OS and HP fortunately doesn't feel the need to rearrange the UI and add a bunch of SDVs (stuff of dubious value) every couple of years to drive sales there are some differences between 7.3 and 8.3/8.4.

VAX peripherals and add-ins are also harder to come by.

I don't know if I'd classify the VS2000 and 4000/VLC in the same class as Multia. They were both designed as usable standalone machines in their own right, with sufficient memory/disk expansion and computational resources. Keep in mind the 2000, while slow by today's standards, was a mid '80s machine and in the low end of DEC's lineup. Compare it to what you got with a 8088 or 80286.
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Re: Smallest HPUX/OpenVMS System Ever?

Unread postby Winnili » Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:07 am

mia wrote:What about a nice vaxstation 4000?

If you desire to run a more than 11 year-old version of VMS (i.e. V7.3) at most, sure, then by all means go for it...
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Re: Smallest HPUX/OpenVMS System Ever?

Unread postby Winnili » Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:15 am

SAQ wrote:Depends what the OP is going to use it for.

It would sure be useful if the thread poster would give some feedback.


VMS is a mature OS and HP fortunately doesn't feel the need to rearrange the UI and add a bunch of SDVs (stuff of dubious value) every couple of years to drive sales there are some differences between 7.3 and 8.3/8.4.

I wouldn't say that, at all. Subsequent versions ― such as V8.4, as released in 2010 ― have enjoyed numerous new features, including in fundamental areas such as the file system. I happily run 2 Tbyte volumes in my VMScluster, being served through U320 shared storage paths (with allocation classes set) and additionally through MSCP over 10GbE. Try to that with V7.3(-1/-2), V8.3 or even V8.3-1H1.
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Re: Smallest HPUX/OpenVMS System Ever?

Unread postby dclough » Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:36 am

Ask and ye shall receive.

I'm really not looking for anything purpose-driven. I just have limited (read: absolutely no) experience in a VMS environment and figured it would be neat to grab a box to learn on every now and then, hence the small and cheap requirement. :) Nothing I have to devote considerable floorspace or a new circuit breaker to.

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Re: Smallest HPUX/OpenVMS System Ever?

Unread postby ItsMeOnly » Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:48 pm

dclough wrote:Ask and ye shall receive.

I'm really not looking for anything purpose-driven. I just have limited (read: absolutely no) experience in a VMS environment and figured it would be neat to grab a box to learn on every now and then, hence the small and cheap requirement. :) Nothing I have to devote considerable floorspace or a new circuit breaker to.

How about XP1000? It's quite powerfull, small footprint workstation.
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Re: Smallest HPUX/OpenVMS System Ever?

Unread postby dclough » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:06 pm

ItsMeOnly wrote:How about XP1000? It's quite powerfull, small footprint workstation.


It looks like a nifty little box. Seems very compact, very utilitarian, and seemed like it would be reasonably inexpensive.

Until I saw this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Compaq-XP100 ... 2c6310d53c

:(

How common are these and what could I expect to pay for one?

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mia
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Re: Smallest HPUX/OpenVMS System Ever?

Unread postby mia » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:08 pm

dclough wrote:http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Compaq-XP1000-SN-E2G6W-32-667Mhz-256Mb-memory-9gb-drive-scsi-graphics-/190640608572?pt=US_Thin_Clients&hash=item2c6310d53c
How common are these and what could I expect to pay for one?


This is a complete ripoff, I paid $150 for my DS10@466Mhz with 1GB ram, cdrom and 2 drives. It's not a bad box per say; it's not *great* but for $150, it's worth it. I'm not sure which video card it has, I think Elsa3D something.
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Re: Smallest HPUX/OpenVMS System Ever?

Unread postby Winnili » Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:23 pm

The last few posts (above this one) show me that I've likely been wasting my time on this thread...
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Re: Smallest HPUX/OpenVMS System Ever?

Unread postby smj » Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:14 pm

SAQ wrote:I don't know if I'd classify the VS2000 and 4000/VLC in the same class as Multia. They were both designed as usable standalone machines in their own right, with sufficient memory/disk expansion and computational resources. Keep in mind the 2000, while slow by today's standards, was a mid '80s machine and in the low end of DEC's lineup. Compare it to what you got with a 8088 or 80286.
Exactly, the low end of DEC's lineup is the point I'm making. I used a computer lab of VS2000's running ULTRIX and X10 for a class in 1988, so I'm not just looking at the performance from today's perspective, or in comparison to any 16-bit PCs.

I'm grouping these machines together because I believe they were each designed to be low-cost systems using DEC's then-current platforms. Do you not think this was the design brief for these models? Or, what makes you think that the Multia was not intended to be useful as a standalone machine? Certainly it was more useful on a network, but I think that's just as true for the other models.

If you just meant to point out that it was foolish to only officially offer WinNT on the Multia I certainly won't argue!
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Unread postby SAQ » Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:06 pm

Winnili wrote:
VMS is a mature OS and HP fortunately doesn't feel the need to rearrange the UI and add a bunch of SDVs (stuff of dubious value) every couple of years to drive sales there are some differences between 7.3 and 8.3/8.4.

I wouldn't say that, at all. Subsequent versions ― such as V8.4, as released in 2010 ― have enjoyed numerous new features, including in fundamental areas such as the file system. I happily run 2 Tbyte volumes in my VMScluster, being served through U320 shared storage paths (with allocation classes set) and additionally through MSCP over 10GbE. Try to that with V7.3(-1/-2), V8.3 or even V8.3-1H1.


Never said they didn't add new legitimate features, just said that they didn't make gratuitous changes. If you fire up a WinNT4 or Win2k system there will be noticeable differences in how it is administered. Same with Macintosh and many other systems - but you can learn basic OVMS admin on an old version and most of it carries over because DEC/CPQ/HP didn't gratuitously change things.

Sounds like finances are probably an issue for the OP, which is the case for a number of people, and unfortunately Alphas hold their value more than many other computers. Perhaps he should look at SIMH or another emulator - while you don't get the feel of the hardware you can run OVMS fairly easily and get a feel for it.

As far as HP-UX equipment goes there isn't much that's small, except for really old stuff that runs 10.20 or earlier. HP-UX is a pretty straight SysV anyway, so I wouldn't worry too much about it (unless there's a definite job attached).
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Re: Smallest HPUX/OpenVMS System Ever?

Unread postby mia » Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:46 am

Or, what makes you think that the Multia was not intended to be useful as a standalone machine?


I think that the multia was a great machine, yet, physically too fragile (unlike the sun LX/IPC/IPX, notably). It was very versatile (scsi, ide, floppy, network, pci slot, and a great video card); and so quiet! I owned 2 by 1996. Unfortunately, they're not so modular, and when they break, they break; and there's not much to do about it.

Amazingly, another system I really liked was the DS10L (and NOT the clunky desktop DS10), it was a great server, I'd gladly trade a few DS10 for a DS10L. Running Digital Unix or OpenVMS in 1U of rackspace was neat, and those boxes are pretty snappy and well designed. I wish they had made a DS15L.

I also wish it would be possible to run OpenVMS on Altix 350, that would be... interesting; unfortunately, too much SGI magic in there that would prevent it to work.
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Re: Smallest HPUX/OpenVMS System Ever?

Unread postby SAQ » Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:22 am

mia wrote:Amazingly, another system I really liked was the DS10L (and NOT the clunky desktop DS10), it was a great server, I'd gladly trade a few DS10 for a DS10L. Running Digital Unix or OpenVMS in 1U of rackspace was neat, and those boxes are pretty snappy and well designed. I wish they had made a DS15L.


I wish that OVMS ran on a DS20L, though that would probably boost prices on that one substantially. 1U duallie.
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Re: Smallest HPUX/OpenVMS System Ever?

Unread postby PymbleSoftware » Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:21 pm

SAQ wrote:
mia wrote:Amazingly, another system I really liked was the DS10L (and NOT the clunky desktop DS10), it was a great server, I'd gladly trade a few DS10 for a DS10L. Running Digital Unix or OpenVMS in 1U of rackspace was neat, and those boxes are pretty snappy and well designed. I wish they had made a DS15L.


I wish that OVMS ran on a DS20L, though that would probably boost prices on that one substantially. 1U duallie.


:? :? Why won't it...? I have a DS20E, and from memory... I sort of ran OVMS on it until it started asking for licenses and stuff and then don't get me started on the mess with the hobbyist program :roll:


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Re: Smallest HPUX/OpenVMS System Ever?

Unread postby Winnili » Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:51 pm

mia wrote:I wish they had made a DS15L.

Why, do you love loud, high-pitched, noise? (Produced by the typical 1U.)
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• Offering various remaining systems and parts, several interestingly compatible with both IRIX and OpenVMS (AXP and I64);
• Looking for an SGI O3000 IP59 1-GHz MIPS R16000 quad-processor node board (for a Tezro).

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Re: Smallest HPUX/OpenVMS System Ever?

Unread postby Winnili » Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:52 pm

PymbleSoftware wrote:
SAQ wrote:I wish that OVMS ran on a DS20L, though that would probably boost prices on that one substantially. 1U duallie.


:? :? Why won't it...? I have a DS20E, and from memory... I sort of ran OVMS on it until it started asking for licenses and stuff and then don't get me started on the mess with the hobbyist program :roll:

DS20L, which is the 1U (as SAQ also mentioned) as can be seen below:

    Image


It differs somewhat from the DS20E, as can be seen below:

    Image


Also, what's wrong with the Hobbyist Program? I get my PAKs within 24 hours typically, even during weekends. (Especially since it was in-sourced by HP.)
:Tezro: :Indigo2IMP: :Indigo2:

• Offering various remaining systems and parts, several interestingly compatible with both IRIX and OpenVMS (AXP and I64);
• Looking for an SGI O3000 IP59 1-GHz MIPS R16000 quad-processor node board (for a Tezro).


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