Whither HP-UX?

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josehill
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Whither HP-UX?

Unread postby josehill » Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:36 pm

I just noticed that Oracle announced that it will cease developing database products for HP-UX on Itanium. No surprise, I guess, but I can't help wondering if this is the nail in the coffin for HP-UX. I've long maintained that loss of Oracle support is what pushed SGI IRIX over the commercial cliff, since so much of the enterprise application environment (and the scientific environment, too) is built around Oracle. When the foundation of your multi-tier architecture departs, the 3rd party application vendors that live in the other tiers leave the building, too. On the bright side, though, IBM still supports DB2 on HP-UX on Itanium, an option which SGI didn't have, and current flavors of DB2 are designed to make migrations from complex Oracle environments much simpler than in olden tymes.

So, if Oracle on HP-UX/Itanium is a big part of your environment, what do you do: migrate to DB2, or migrate to another hardware/OS combination?

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Re: Whither HP-UX?

Unread postby PymbleSoftware » Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:41 pm

I blame Windoze and Linux for killing commercial UNIX of all flavours.
I won't especially miss HP-UX but I didn't really hate it either. It was preferable to AIX in the mid 1990s.

migrate to another hardware/OS combination
Depends how deeply the CIO drinks from the Koolaide. Mostly clueless management types are Windows fanbois. A lot of young techs will have Open Source pried from their cold dead hands. So if its a hands off management approach: Linux. Hands off management with solicit proposals from techs and if its not a MSFT shop then the main option will be Linux everywhere.

I think it more about the people, "steak holders" ;) and what particular bent they have. Postgres is an option. its a DB I used in a commercial setting that I found to be useful, robust and basically did the job, but hell I'll deal (and have dealt) with anything, DB2, Postgres, mysql, Informix, Oracle, Sybase, SQL Server, etc.


Another option might be to stick in some kind of middleware and move the DB servers onto something else and leave the application servers on HP-UX..

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Re: Whither HP-UX?

Unread postby SAQ » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:54 pm

But Microsoft says that their product is so much better and cheaper than any of the other alternatives. Surely they wouldn't lie to you, right? Besides, you can get a whole bunch of really cheap admins with a 2-year "Computer Science" degree in admining Windows.

And then Linux is FREE!!!! How can you get better than that?

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Re: Whither HP-UX?

Unread postby skywriter » Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:08 am

josehill wrote:I just noticed that Oracle announced that it will cease developing database products for HP-UX on Itanium.


it's always about putting more cash into Oracles pocket. dump Itanium, drive sales to SPARC.

the evils of verticalization have returned with the same old tricks.
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Re: Whither HP-UX?

Unread postby yetanother**ixuser » Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:41 am

skywriter wrote:
josehill wrote:I just noticed that Oracle announced that it will cease developing database products for HP-UX on Itanium.


it's always about putting more cash into Oracles pocket. dump Itanium, drive sales to SPARC.

the evils of verticalization have returned with the same old tricks.



right...they also changed the core license values against amd64 to push up SPARC *gg*
no plan

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Re: Whither HP-UX?

Unread postby GL1zdA » Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:51 pm

Itanic sinks and HP-UX will play along until the end... Sorry, but I have no sympathy for the CPU which caused the premature death of at least two RISC designs and associated software. Compared to them, drowning HP-UX is not a big loss.
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Re: Whither HP-UX?

Unread postby SAQ » Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:03 pm

GL1zdA wrote:Itanic sinks and HP-UX will play along until the end... Sorry, but I have no sympathy for the CPU which caused the premature death of at least two RISC designs and associated software. Compared to them, drowning HP-UX is not a big loss.


Itanium grew out of PA-RISC (the PA-WW project). There's no question that Alpha was a superior design, so in that sense you're right.
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Re: Whither HP-UX?

Unread postby smj » Wed Apr 06, 2011 4:45 pm

skywriter wrote:the evils of verticalization have returned with the same old tricks.
I kindof like the notion of Oracle becoming the same kind of closed-shop that IBM was when they didn't pay attention to relational databases and gave rise to companies like... Oracle.

Steering it back to PH-UX -- who cares about Oracle? Haven't you heard that all future computing will depend on NoSQL databases?

Hey, maybe HP will shock everybody and port HP-UX to x86-64. Remember, pigs will fly just fine if you apply enough thrust... ;)
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Re: Whither HP-UX?

Unread postby PymbleSoftware » Wed Apr 06, 2011 4:56 pm

smj wrote: Remember, pigs will fly just fine if you apply enough thrust...

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Re: Whither HP-UX?

Unread postby D-EJ915 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:48 pm

Was reading about this a few days ago, it seems as though Oracle has been scaring the bejesus out of SPARC customers and sales have been falling quite sharply.
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Re: Whither HP-UX?

Unread postby skywriter » Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:49 am

D-EJ915 wrote:Was reading about this a few days ago, it seems as though Oracle has been scaring the bejesus out of SPARC customers and sales have been falling quite sharply.


Falling? Where do you get that from?

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/03/24/oracle-idUKASA01TCP20110324
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Re: Whither HP-UX?

Unread postby D-EJ915 » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:31 am

skywriter wrote:
D-EJ915 wrote:Was reading about this a few days ago, it seems as though Oracle has been scaring the bejesus out of SPARC customers and sales have been falling quite sharply.


Falling? Where do you get that from?

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/03/24/oracle-idUKASA01TCP20110324

Certainly not from oracle, I don't remember the article off the top of my head but I'll link it if I find it again.
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Re: Whither HP-UX?

Unread postby josehill » Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:17 pm

You both may be right. Oracle's overall sales and, more importantly, profitability both appear to be increasing. At the same time, total sales from the former Sun business are lower than before, but the profitability of the former Sun business seems to be dramatically higher.

It's not yet clear whether or not Oracle is selling more SPARC systems, but I don't think that anyone would be surprised to hear that the SPARC side of the Sun hardware business has declined, at least in terms of volume. Again, profitability is a different issue.

PS. Another link - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/24 ... 1_numbers/

skywriter wrote:
D-EJ915 wrote:Was reading about this a few days ago, it seems as though Oracle has been scaring the bejesus out of SPARC customers and sales have been falling quite sharply.


Falling? Where do you get that from?

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/03/24/oracle-idUKASA01TCP20110324

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Re: Whither HP-UX?

Unread postby skywriter » Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:25 pm

i admit i read the assertion incorrectly. i thought it was all sales, not just those attributable to SPARC. if true, that's what i would expect. i never believed Oracle would maintain it's SPARC systems business in the face of more profitable business, and i've stated that repeatedly in the face of much bemoaning.
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Re: Whither HP-UX?

Unread postby SAQ » Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:46 pm

smj wrote:Hey, maybe HP will shock everybody and port HP-UX to x86-64. Remember, pigs will fly just fine if you apply enough thrust... ;)


I'm not as interested in HP-UX, but after all they did to get OpenVMS on Itanium a port to x64 shouldn't be too hard. VAX was built around OpenVMS (or they were co-built around each other), Alpha had tweaks to make OpenVMS run on it, but Itanium was a decidedly non-DEC architecture and required that they strip out most of the "DEC system specific" stuff. From that to x64 is just a small jump (comparatively).

Not sure if it's going to happen. Itanium+HP chipset locks people into HP hardware for OpenVMS, whereas porting it to the PC doesn't. Even if HP doesn't license/support OpenVMS on other than select HP systems OpenVMS' reputation could suffer if someone hacks it on a $199 Wal-Mart wonder.
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