What HP/DEC/Compaq do we have.

HP/DEC/Compaq workstations/servers and operating systems (HP-UX, Tru64, OpenVMS, NonStop, etc.)
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robespierre
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Re: What HP/DEC/Compaq do we have.

Unread postby robespierre » Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:14 am

They are 512MB each, a set of 4 (a "memory option") is 2GB. You can verify this yourself by reading the part number of the SDRAM chips and converting Mbits to bytes. I just image searched so who knows how accurate the images are, but one result showed a DIMM with 18 Samsung K4S560432D-TC75 chips. Each chip is 256Mbit, so 16 make 512MB, with the remainder for ECC.
http://www.mitlimited.com/Alphaserver-ES40-Sepcial.htm
MS610-CA 512 MB memory option (4 x 128 MB DIMMs)
MS610-DA 1 GB memory option (4 x 256 MB DIMMs)
MS610-EA 2 GB memory option (4 x 512 MB DIMMs)
MS610-FA 4 GB memory option (4 x 1024 MB DIMMs)
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bifo
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Re: What HP/DEC/Compaq do we have.

Unread postby bifo » Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:17 pm

robespierre wrote:They are 512MB each, a set of 4 (a "memory option") is 2GB. You can verify this yourself by reading the part number of the SDRAM chips and converting Mbits to bytes. I just image searched so who knows how accurate the images are, but one result showed a DIMM with 18 Samsung K4S560432D-TC75 chips. Each chip is 256Mbit, so 16 make 512MB, with the remainder for ECC.
http://www.mitlimited.com/Alphaserver-ES40-Sepcial.htm
MS610-CA 512 MB memory option (4 x 128 MB DIMMs)
MS610-DA 1 GB memory option (4 x 256 MB DIMMs)
MS610-EA 2 GB memory option (4 x 512 MB DIMMs)
MS610-FA 4 GB memory option (4 x 1024 MB DIMMs)

This particular set has HP refub P/N of 20-00ESA-08 and nothing much else, and it also has a total of 18 chips. I just went ahead and purchased the other one from the same seller so I'll have to wait and see. Either way, I'll have some DS series 512 MB sticks up for sale soon. The reason why I was worried is that they seem to have used the same part numbers for sets of 2 256MB options and 2 512MB options.

The DS10L is a strange beast, since it's exactly the same as a DS10/XP900 but DEC/Compaq stated that it had some limitations which can't really be explained since the hardware is no different. Supposedly, it's limited to 1GB but the DS10 could take 2GB, and I don't know if that was some intentional firmware limitation (which has probably been removed by the updated firmware since my system identifies as an XP900 since I installed the radeon) or a matter of the physical case, which is also now irrelevant since it's not in a rack and i can run it with the top up if need be. I'm curious if I could just drop in a full DS10 PCI riser and have a full DS10 system, which I'll probably try if I ever come across a riser.

johnnym wrote:
bifo wrote:Can anyone confirm that 20-00ESA-08 or 20-01ESA-08 are 512MB modules or were Compaq/HP in the habit of labeling sets for the full amount of the sets rather than the individual sticks?

I cannot confirm and I currently also cannot have a look in my DS20E (which has 16 x 256 MiB stacked DIMMs for reference), but there's an info page at HPE that lists 20-00ESA-08 as a 512 MiB stacked DIMM. On the other hand the text is not explicit enough to say that these number apply to singular DIMMs. How do you understand it?

There's also a parts list at IslandComputers for AlphaServer ES40s and there it lists both 20-00ESA-08 and 20-01ESA-08 as stacked or mono 512 MiB DIMMs respectively. As it later also lists "Memory Options" (with 1 GiB and 2 GiB capacity, i.e. more than any singular DIMM available for the ES40 ever had), I assume the above numbers really relate to singular DIMMs.

That's the problem I was running into, they seem to use part numbers for both dual 256mb sets and single 512mb sticks. I'm hoping that the 00ESA and 01ESA difference refers to the matching pair (the second stick I ordered from the same seller is 01ESA, the first one was the 00ESA) and these are labeled at the individual amounts, since the one I already have doesn't mention "SET OF 2" like the kingston 512MB dual set I already have, along with the third one the incompetent seller sent me.

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Re: What HP/DEC/Compaq do we have.

Unread postby johnnym » Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:32 pm

bifo wrote:
johnnym wrote:[...]
There's also a parts list at IslandComputers for AlphaServer ES40s and there it lists both 20-00ESA-08 and 20-01ESA-08 as stacked or mono 512 MiB DIMMs respectively. As it later also lists "Memory Options" (with 1 GiB and 2 GiB capacity, i.e. more than any singular DIMM available for the ES40 ever had), I assume the above numbers really relate to singular DIMMs.

That's the problem I was running into, they seem to use part numbers for both dual 256mb sets and single 512mb sticks.

No, I believe the difference between stacked and mono DIMMs is the number of DRAM chips. Stacked DIMMs have (at least) a second DRAM chip soldered on top of each DRAM chip on the PCB - I couldn't find a good picture on the web at the moment, but the DIMMs in my DS20E are all stacked DIMMs (most likely all of type 20-00DSA-08). I don't know for sure but I hence believe "mono" just stands for "standard" DIMMs with higher capacity DRAM chips and no need for extra DRAMs, although the "standard" 256 MiB DIMMs are called "unstacked". Maybe the nomenclature of the 256 MiB DIMMs is still from DEC and the later nomenclature is from Compaq already and hence differs. But if you compare the numbering, the stacked version of the 256 MiB DIMM is 20-00DSA-08 and the unstacked version of the 256 MiB DIMM is 20-01DSA-08, which would match the numbering for the 512 MiB DIMMs (00 for stacked and 01 for unstacked) if my assumption is correct.
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bifo
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Re: What HP/DEC/Compaq do we have.

Unread postby bifo » Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:50 am

johnnym wrote:
bifo wrote:
johnnym wrote:[...]
There's also a parts list at IslandComputers for AlphaServer ES40s and there it lists both 20-00ESA-08 and 20-01ESA-08 as stacked or mono 512 MiB DIMMs respectively. As it later also lists "Memory Options" (with 1 GiB and 2 GiB capacity, i.e. more than any singular DIMM available for the ES40 ever had), I assume the above numbers really relate to singular DIMMs.

That's the problem I was running into, they seem to use part numbers for both dual 256mb sets and single 512mb sticks.

No, I believe the difference between stacked and mono DIMMs is the number of DRAM chips. Stacked DIMMs have (at least) a second DRAM chip soldered on top of each DRAM chip on the PCB - I couldn't find a good picture on the web at the moment, but the DIMMs in my DS20E are all stacked DIMMs (most likely all of type 20-00DSA-08). I don't know for sure but I hence believe "mono" just stands for "standard" DIMMs with higher capacity DRAM chips and no need for extra DRAMs, although the "standard" 256 MiB DIMMs are called "unstacked". Maybe the nomenclature of the 256 MiB DIMMs is still from DEC and the later nomenclature is from Compaq already and hence differs. But if you compare the numbering, the stacked version of the 256 MiB DIMM is 20-00DSA-08 and the unstacked version of the 256 MiB DIMM is 20-01DSA-08, which would match the numbering for the 512 MiB DIMMs (00 for stacked and 01 for unstacked) if my assumption is correct.
Well, we'll see once I get the second stick in the mail, since it's from the same ebay auction and the same seller that I purchased my 20-00DSA-08 from, but this one is marked as 01DSA and was supposed to be a matched pair. I'll take photos of both when the RAM arrives, but I believe they're both HP refurbs so a bit difficult to work out what the original part numbers were.

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bifo
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Re: What HP/DEC/Compaq do we have.

Unread postby bifo » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:38 pm

The 20-00DSA-08 sticks are the full 512MB each, the system now has 1024MB ram. If anyone needs to pick up a set of 512MB for a DS10 compatible alphaserver, shoot me a PM and we can work something out, since I now have a matched pair and a third 256MB stick that I don't need.

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Re: What HP/DEC/Compaq do we have.

Unread postby uridium » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:39 am

My TS10 .. I grabbed sticks out of a spare DS20E. "Just worked"
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Re: What HP/DEC/Compaq do we have.

Unread postby johnnym » Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:19 am

bifo wrote:The 20-00DSA-08 sticks are the full 512MB each, the system now has 1024MB ram. If anyone needs to pick up a set of 512MB for a DS10 compatible alphaserver, shoot me a PM and we can work something out, since I now have a matched pair and a third 256MB stick that I don't need.

Just to be sure: Did you actually mean "20-00ESA-08" instead of "20-00DSA-08" for 512 MiB DIMMs? Because according to the parts list at IslandCo:
Memory, 256MB (16MX4), 200 Pin, 3.3V, SDRAM
Stacked Single Density *54-24941-FA 20-00DSA-08

Memory, 256MB (32MX4), 200 Pin, 3.3V, SDRAM
Unstacked Double Density *54-24941-HA 20-01DSA-08

Memory, 512MB Stacked 200 pin Sync DIMM
100MHzDouble Density *54-24941-JA 20-00ESA-08

Memory, 512MB Mono 200 pin Sync DIMM
100MHZ 20-01ESA-08

..."20-00DSA-08" would actually be 256 MiB DIMMs. And are your DIMMs "stacked" DIMMs?
Last edited by johnnym on Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What HP/DEC/Compaq do we have.

Unread postby johnnym » Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:35 am

uridium wrote:My TS10 .. I grabbed sticks out of a spare DS20E. "Just worked"

Would be interesting to check if the 512 MiB DIMMs for the *S10* systems also work in the DS20E. Because even the latest AlphaServer DS20E Quick Specs I could find lists it with a maximum of 4 GiB of memory (with 16 x 256 MiB DIMMs). The *S10* systems use two of the so-called D-chips, the DS20E uses eight D-chips. So if the D-chips of the *S10* systems allow for 512 MiB DIMMs, why shouldn't the D-chips of the DS20E? Has anybody tried that yet?
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bifo
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Re: What HP/DEC/Compaq do we have.

Unread postby bifo » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:23 am

johnnym wrote:
bifo wrote:The 20-00DSA-08 sticks are the full 512MB each, the system now has 1024MB ram. If anyone needs to pick up a set of 512MB for a DS10 compatible alphaserver, shoot me a PM and we can work something out, since I now have a matched pair and a third 256MB stick that I don't need.

Just to be sure: Did you actually mean "20-00ESA-08" instead of "20-00DSA-08" for 512 MiB DIMMs? Because according to the parts list at IslandCo:
Memory, 256MB (16MX4), 200 Pin, 3.3V, SDRAM
Stacked Single Density *54-24941-FA 20-00DSA-08

Memory, 256MB (32MX4), 200 Pin, 3.3V, SDRAM
Unstacked Double Density *54-24941-HA 20-01DSA-08

Memory, 512MB Stacked 200 pin Sync DIMM
100MHzDouble Density *54-24941-JA 20-00ESA-08

Memory, 512MB Mono 200 pin Sync DIMM
100MHZ 20-01ESA-08

..."20-00DSA-08" would actually be 256 MiB DIMMs. And are your DIMMs "stacked" DIMMs?

Ah the system is up and running at present but I popped the hood and the one label I could see was from, I believe, the newer stick, which actually is 01ESA. The other stick may have an incorrect sticker on it or I may have mistaken the E for D, but it's definitely an 00. The sticks were mislabeled on the ebay sale again, as DSA, but this time they were labeled for individual amounts and came through correctly.

The kingston sticks aren't given any part numbers but are 256mb each and require a dual set, but I'm not sure how the stacking works.

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Re: What HP/DEC/Compaq do we have.

Unread postby johnnym » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:08 am

bifo wrote:The kingston sticks aren't given any part numbers but are 256mb each and require a dual set, but I'm not sure how the stacking works.

I finally found some pictures for stacked and unstacked variants:
If you look closely onto the 20-00ESA-08 DIMM (from item #262899467320) you can see that for each DRAM chip there is actually another DRAM chip soldered on top. The 20-01ESA-08 DIMM (from item #162181430749) uses higher capacity DRAMs and hence can do with one DRAM chip at each position.
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bifo
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Re: What HP/DEC/Compaq do we have.

Unread postby bifo » Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:37 pm

It appears that both are stacked, including the one labeled 20-01ESA-08. They're otherwise identical aside from the labels. As I said, they're refurbished and seem to be a matched set of pulls labeled by HP as Refurbished, entirely possible they're mislabeled.

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Re: What HP/DEC/Compaq do we have.

Unread postby sgt_barnes » Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:33 am

Greetings, DEC community,

this is the pc164sx that showed up in "Hardware for Sale / Trade" a couple of weeks ago. I bought it from a nice guy in england, and got it shipped to germany in no time. The package contained the board with 21164PC @ 533 MHz and heat sink attached, the NT user manual, and two 3.5" floppy disks, AlphaBIOS firmware and NT drivers. The box looked as if it might be in fact original. All in all a very cool system, and I paid roughly 60€ for it.

Here is the content of the box:

Image

And this is a closeup of the whole board (after I stuffed in 512 MB of Siemens non-ECC PC100 SD-RAM):

Image

Everything went into an Antec standard ATX case, with a cheap power supply from german computer disounter Arlt. An befor you complain: yes, the cabiling is a mess, sorry for that. Anyhow:

Image

Note the two big case fans, which might come in handy should I find out that the system will get very hot (which it up to now never did, except when installing the OS). Top to bottom, the PCI cards are:

  1. ELSA GLoria Synergy 8MB (or PowerStorm 4D10T, as DEC calls it)]
  2. Adaptec AHA-2940UW (aka AIC78XX), which drives the IBM DNES-209170W 9GB hard disk
  3. and a DEC 21140 fast ethernet card
A spare DVD rom is connected to the on-board IDE port. As you can see, everything is standard-issue PC gear from the late 90ties.

The back of the case:

Image

Note that the board didn't come with the appropriate ATX I/O shield. I might have to 3D print something for that...

The complete case (I still need to print some DEC logo stickers for it):

Image

And - last but not least - the german Windows NT 4.0 Workstation desktop:

Image

Its a very nice machine, and I'm using it to brush up my Win32 skills. Currently, I'm writing an editor as a more comfortable replacement for notepad. If I ever get to finish this project, it might come in handy even for all the sgi VW320 useres still out there, which are stuck with NT4/2000, too.

(Edit: Typos...)
Last edited by sgt_barnes on Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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miod
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Re: What HP/DEC/Compaq do we have.

Unread postby miod » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:39 am

sgt_barnes wrote:Note that the board didn't come with the appropriate ATX I/O shield.
Yes, that's the most annoying thing with the 164SX and 164LX.
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Re: What HP/DEC/Compaq do we have.

Unread postby NavyBOFH » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:56 am

Hello all!

For my first post (but a long time lurker of the forum), I have started digging up some "vintage" equipment from my employer that is due to head to the scrapper if I don't save it.

So far, my first good find is a DEC Micro PDP-11/73 that still powers on, a DEC VT420 with keyboard in mint shape, a DECserver 200/DL, and a box full of new floppies. They were all held in our basement which is dry and relatively cool but not humidity controlled so I haven't dug into it so far. I have recovered a box with another 2 or 3 keyboards and miscellaneous DEC cables and terminators. I am still looking to see if other pieces were tossed in other places. I am excited to see it running but I know absolutely nothing about DECnet and my uncle (a former Digital and Compaq engineer) is too far away to offer much help.

I have also dug up some Sun Microsystems pieces which I haven't looked at yet, and still going. I am really hoping to find something SGI in the pile since we are a broadcasting company and have done graphics work in the past and present! Everything we run now is x86 but it seems like at one point there was a good deal of DEC, Sun, and SGI computers based on CDs and papers found in boxes.

I hope to continue sharing with this forum and seeing if not only I can get the PDP-11 alive, but on HECnet and perhaps through one of the many Cisco switches we have laying around.

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Re: What HP/DEC/Compaq do we have.

Unread postby ClassicHasClass » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:50 pm

The complete case (I still need to print some DEC logo stickers for it):


This is what you want (my 164LX running Tru64): viewtopic.php?f=18&t=16729421&p=7380536#p7380536
smit happens.

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probably posted from Image bruce, Quad 2.5GHz PowerPC 970MP, 16GB RAM, Mac OS X 10.4.11
plus IBM POWER6 p520 * Apple Network Server 500 * RDI PrecisionBook * BeBox * Solbourne S3000 * Commodore 128 * many more...


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