What HP/DEC/Compaq do we have.

HP/DEC/Compaq workstations/servers and operating systems (HP-UX, Tru64, OpenVMS, NonStop, etc.)
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robespierre
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Re: What HP/DEC/Compaq do we have.

Unread postby robespierre » Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:14 am

They are 512MB each, a set of 4 (a "memory option") is 2GB. You can verify this yourself by reading the part number of the SDRAM chips and converting Mbits to bytes. I just image searched so who knows how accurate the images are, but one result showed a DIMM with 18 Samsung K4S560432D-TC75 chips. Each chip is 256Mbit, so 16 make 512MB, with the remainder for ECC.
http://www.mitlimited.com/Alphaserver-ES40-Sepcial.htm
MS610-CA 512 MB memory option (4 x 128 MB DIMMs)
MS610-DA 1 GB memory option (4 x 256 MB DIMMs)
MS610-EA 2 GB memory option (4 x 512 MB DIMMs)
MS610-FA 4 GB memory option (4 x 1024 MB DIMMs)
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bifo
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Re: What HP/DEC/Compaq do we have.

Unread postby bifo » Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:17 pm

robespierre wrote:They are 512MB each, a set of 4 (a "memory option") is 2GB. You can verify this yourself by reading the part number of the SDRAM chips and converting Mbits to bytes. I just image searched so who knows how accurate the images are, but one result showed a DIMM with 18 Samsung K4S560432D-TC75 chips. Each chip is 256Mbit, so 16 make 512MB, with the remainder for ECC.
http://www.mitlimited.com/Alphaserver-ES40-Sepcial.htm
MS610-CA 512 MB memory option (4 x 128 MB DIMMs)
MS610-DA 1 GB memory option (4 x 256 MB DIMMs)
MS610-EA 2 GB memory option (4 x 512 MB DIMMs)
MS610-FA 4 GB memory option (4 x 1024 MB DIMMs)

This particular set has HP refub P/N of 20-00ESA-08 and nothing much else, and it also has a total of 18 chips. I just went ahead and purchased the other one from the same seller so I'll have to wait and see. Either way, I'll have some DS series 512 MB sticks up for sale soon. The reason why I was worried is that they seem to have used the same part numbers for sets of 2 256MB options and 2 512MB options.

The DS10L is a strange beast, since it's exactly the same as a DS10/XP900 but DEC/Compaq stated that it had some limitations which can't really be explained since the hardware is no different. Supposedly, it's limited to 1GB but the DS10 could take 2GB, and I don't know if that was some intentional firmware limitation (which has probably been removed by the updated firmware since my system identifies as an XP900 since I installed the radeon) or a matter of the physical case, which is also now irrelevant since it's not in a rack and i can run it with the top up if need be. I'm curious if I could just drop in a full DS10 PCI riser and have a full DS10 system, which I'll probably try if I ever come across a riser.

johnnym wrote:
bifo wrote:Can anyone confirm that 20-00ESA-08 or 20-01ESA-08 are 512MB modules or were Compaq/HP in the habit of labeling sets for the full amount of the sets rather than the individual sticks?

I cannot confirm and I currently also cannot have a look in my DS20E (which has 16 x 256 MiB stacked DIMMs for reference), but there's an info page at HPE that lists 20-00ESA-08 as a 512 MiB stacked DIMM. On the other hand the text is not explicit enough to say that these number apply to singular DIMMs. How do you understand it?

There's also a parts list at IslandComputers for AlphaServer ES40s and there it lists both 20-00ESA-08 and 20-01ESA-08 as stacked or mono 512 MiB DIMMs respectively. As it later also lists "Memory Options" (with 1 GiB and 2 GiB capacity, i.e. more than any singular DIMM available for the ES40 ever had), I assume the above numbers really relate to singular DIMMs.

That's the problem I was running into, they seem to use part numbers for both dual 256mb sets and single 512mb sticks. I'm hoping that the 00ESA and 01ESA difference refers to the matching pair (the second stick I ordered from the same seller is 01ESA, the first one was the 00ESA) and these are labeled at the individual amounts, since the one I already have doesn't mention "SET OF 2" like the kingston 512MB dual set I already have, along with the third one the incompetent seller sent me.

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johnnym
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Re: What HP/DEC/Compaq do we have.

Unread postby johnnym » Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:32 pm

bifo wrote:
johnnym wrote:[...]
There's also a parts list at IslandComputers for AlphaServer ES40s and there it lists both 20-00ESA-08 and 20-01ESA-08 as stacked or mono 512 MiB DIMMs respectively. As it later also lists "Memory Options" (with 1 GiB and 2 GiB capacity, i.e. more than any singular DIMM available for the ES40 ever had), I assume the above numbers really relate to singular DIMMs.

That's the problem I was running into, they seem to use part numbers for both dual 256mb sets and single 512mb sticks.

No, I believe the difference between stacked and mono DIMMs is the number of DRAM chips. Stacked DIMMs have (at least) a second DRAM chip soldered on top of each DRAM chip on the PCB - I couldn't find a good picture on the web at the moment, but the DIMMs in my DS20E are all stacked DIMMs (most likely all of type 20-00DSA-08). I don't know for sure but I hence believe "mono" just stands for "standard" DIMMs with higher capacity DRAM chips and no need for extra DRAMs, although the "standard" 256 MiB DIMMs are called "unstacked". Maybe the nomenclature of the 256 MiB DIMMs is still from DEC and the later nomenclature is from Compaq already and hence differs. But if you compare the numbering, the stacked version of the 256 MiB DIMM is 20-00DSA-08 and the unstacked version of the 256 MiB DIMM is 20-01DSA-08, which would match the numbering for the 512 MiB DIMMs (00 for stacked and 01 for unstacked) if my assumption is correct.
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bifo
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Re: What HP/DEC/Compaq do we have.

Unread postby bifo » Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:50 am

johnnym wrote:
bifo wrote:
johnnym wrote:[...]
There's also a parts list at IslandComputers for AlphaServer ES40s and there it lists both 20-00ESA-08 and 20-01ESA-08 as stacked or mono 512 MiB DIMMs respectively. As it later also lists "Memory Options" (with 1 GiB and 2 GiB capacity, i.e. more than any singular DIMM available for the ES40 ever had), I assume the above numbers really relate to singular DIMMs.

That's the problem I was running into, they seem to use part numbers for both dual 256mb sets and single 512mb sticks.

No, I believe the difference between stacked and mono DIMMs is the number of DRAM chips. Stacked DIMMs have (at least) a second DRAM chip soldered on top of each DRAM chip on the PCB - I couldn't find a good picture on the web at the moment, but the DIMMs in my DS20E are all stacked DIMMs (most likely all of type 20-00DSA-08). I don't know for sure but I hence believe "mono" just stands for "standard" DIMMs with higher capacity DRAM chips and no need for extra DRAMs, although the "standard" 256 MiB DIMMs are called "unstacked". Maybe the nomenclature of the 256 MiB DIMMs is still from DEC and the later nomenclature is from Compaq already and hence differs. But if you compare the numbering, the stacked version of the 256 MiB DIMM is 20-00DSA-08 and the unstacked version of the 256 MiB DIMM is 20-01DSA-08, which would match the numbering for the 512 MiB DIMMs (00 for stacked and 01 for unstacked) if my assumption is correct.
Well, we'll see once I get the second stick in the mail, since it's from the same ebay auction and the same seller that I purchased my 20-00DSA-08 from, but this one is marked as 01DSA and was supposed to be a matched pair. I'll take photos of both when the RAM arrives, but I believe they're both HP refurbs so a bit difficult to work out what the original part numbers were.

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bifo
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Re: What HP/DEC/Compaq do we have.

Unread postby bifo » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:38 pm

The 20-00DSA-08 sticks are the full 512MB each, the system now has 1024MB ram. If anyone needs to pick up a set of 512MB for a DS10 compatible alphaserver, shoot me a PM and we can work something out, since I now have a matched pair and a third 256MB stick that I don't need.

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uridium
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Re: What HP/DEC/Compaq do we have.

Unread postby uridium » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:39 am

My TS10 .. I grabbed sticks out of a spare DS20E. "Just worked"
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johnnym
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Re: What HP/DEC/Compaq do we have.

Unread postby johnnym » Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:19 am

bifo wrote:The 20-00DSA-08 sticks are the full 512MB each, the system now has 1024MB ram. If anyone needs to pick up a set of 512MB for a DS10 compatible alphaserver, shoot me a PM and we can work something out, since I now have a matched pair and a third 256MB stick that I don't need.

Just to be sure: Did you actually mean "20-00ESA-08" instead of "20-00DSA-08" for 512 MiB DIMMs? Because according to the parts list at IslandCo:
Memory, 256MB (16MX4), 200 Pin, 3.3V, SDRAM
Stacked Single Density *54-24941-FA 20-00DSA-08

Memory, 256MB (32MX4), 200 Pin, 3.3V, SDRAM
Unstacked Double Density *54-24941-HA 20-01DSA-08

Memory, 512MB Stacked 200 pin Sync DIMM
100MHzDouble Density *54-24941-JA 20-00ESA-08

Memory, 512MB Mono 200 pin Sync DIMM
100MHZ 20-01ESA-08

..."20-00DSA-08" would actually be 256 MiB DIMMs. And are your DIMMs "stacked" DIMMs?
Last edited by johnnym on Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What HP/DEC/Compaq do we have.

Unread postby johnnym » Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:35 am

uridium wrote:My TS10 .. I grabbed sticks out of a spare DS20E. "Just worked"

Would be interesting to check if the 512 MiB DIMMs for the *S10* systems also work in the DS20E. Because even the latest AlphaServer DS20E Quick Specs I could find lists it with a maximum of 4 GiB of memory (with 16 x 256 MiB DIMMs). The *S10* systems use two of the so-called D-chips, the DS20E uses eight D-chips. So if the D-chips of the *S10* systems allow for 512 MiB DIMMs, why shouldn't the D-chips of the DS20E? Has anybody tried that yet?
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bifo
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Re: What HP/DEC/Compaq do we have.

Unread postby bifo » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:23 am

johnnym wrote:
bifo wrote:The 20-00DSA-08 sticks are the full 512MB each, the system now has 1024MB ram. If anyone needs to pick up a set of 512MB for a DS10 compatible alphaserver, shoot me a PM and we can work something out, since I now have a matched pair and a third 256MB stick that I don't need.

Just to be sure: Did you actually mean "20-00ESA-08" instead of "20-00DSA-08" for 512 MiB DIMMs? Because according to the parts list at IslandCo:
Memory, 256MB (16MX4), 200 Pin, 3.3V, SDRAM
Stacked Single Density *54-24941-FA 20-00DSA-08

Memory, 256MB (32MX4), 200 Pin, 3.3V, SDRAM
Unstacked Double Density *54-24941-HA 20-01DSA-08

Memory, 512MB Stacked 200 pin Sync DIMM
100MHzDouble Density *54-24941-JA 20-00ESA-08

Memory, 512MB Mono 200 pin Sync DIMM
100MHZ 20-01ESA-08

..."20-00DSA-08" would actually be 256 MiB DIMMs. And are your DIMMs "stacked" DIMMs?

Ah the system is up and running at present but I popped the hood and the one label I could see was from, I believe, the newer stick, which actually is 01ESA. The other stick may have an incorrect sticker on it or I may have mistaken the E for D, but it's definitely an 00. The sticks were mislabeled on the ebay sale again, as DSA, but this time they were labeled for individual amounts and came through correctly.

The kingston sticks aren't given any part numbers but are 256mb each and require a dual set, but I'm not sure how the stacking works.

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Re: What HP/DEC/Compaq do we have.

Unread postby johnnym » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:08 am

bifo wrote:The kingston sticks aren't given any part numbers but are 256mb each and require a dual set, but I'm not sure how the stacking works.

I finally found some pictures for stacked and unstacked variants:
If you look closely onto the 20-00ESA-08 DIMM (from item #262899467320) you can see that for each DRAM chip there is actually another DRAM chip soldered on top. The 20-01ESA-08 DIMM (from item #162181430749) uses higher capacity DRAMs and hence can do with one DRAM chip at each position.
:Indy: :O2: :Octane: :Octane2: :O200: = :O200: - :O200: = :O200: (O200 cluster w/2 GIGAchannel cabinets)
[ ( hp ) ] 712/80 c3000 (dead) :hpserv: (J5600) c3700 c3750 c8000 rp2470 :rx2600: (rx2620) rx4640
| d | i | g | i | t | a | l | AXPpci33 AlphaStation 200 AlphaStation 255 PWS 500au AlphaServer DS20E AlphaServer DS25
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bifo
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Re: What HP/DEC/Compaq do we have.

Unread postby bifo » Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:37 pm

It appears that both are stacked, including the one labeled 20-01ESA-08. They're otherwise identical aside from the labels. As I said, they're refurbished and seem to be a matched set of pulls labeled by HP as Refurbished, entirely possible they're mislabeled.


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